Conditioning Lager Fermented at Ale Temp

First time poster and soon to be first time homebrewer. I'm starting out with a German Alt and the Deluxe Homebrew kit from Northern Brewer.

A friend fermented the lager at room temperature with an ale yeast and had a good result. I'm going to have to do the same thing as I have no way to ferment at the recommended 55-66F temp. I'll be fermenting at 74F. Using safe-ale yeast.

My question is even though I'm using doing the initial ferment at 74F should I do a secondary ferment and stick it in my fridge for the remainder of the secondary fermation? Or should I secondary ferment at 74F as well (or secondary ferment at all?). Follow-up question is should I bottle/condition them at 74F or keep the bottles in the fridge as well. Since I'm not fermenting under lager conditions, I wasn't sure if it made a difference if I secondary ferment/conditoin at a colder temperature?

Welcome to the wonderful world of brewing.

The German Alt is a hybrid Ale/Lager and typically uses yeasts that are best fermented on the cool side. It is commonly "lagered" which just means "stored at a cool temperature" - not necessarily that it's using lager style yeast. I've made some examples before that I didn't lager and they still turn out well. I assume you're using US-05. I don't have any experience with that yeast - I usually use Wy1007 for my Alts. I know US-05 is a really popular clean fermenting yeast, but I'm skeptical that it would remain clean up to 74F. You don't have to have a refrigerator to ferment cool. You really only need to ferment cool during the early stages of fermentation - 48-72 hours. So you can easily make a swamp cooler to help keep temps low. Just search this site and you'll find lots about swamp coolers.

By the way I really don't like NB's instruction sheet for that beer where it tells you to start fermenting warm, then move to a cool spot. By that time it's too late.

As for bottle conditioning, the general advice you'll see on here is 3 weeks at 70F for a "normal" gravity beer. The NB Alt is 1.052, and I'd consider that normal. Per the brewing sheet you may have drinkable beer by 1-2 weeks in the bottle, but your best bet is to wait for three.

Also, while the kit recommends a secondary, it's really not necessary and can actually be detrimental. I'd just recommend letting it ferment in primary for a full 4 weeks.

Fermentation temperature is maybe one of the most important factors of brewing. Also make sure your water is good (especially that you have no chlorine or chloramine). Be patient and don't rush things. I know that's hard to do your first time. Good luck.

Greetings! There's lots of things about the process you described that are less than ideal, but that ok learn from mistakes, and keep making better and better beer. 74 is really warm, and if that's the temp in the room then the fermenter could be 5-8 degrees warmer, which is downright hot. The Alt might come off a little fruity. You will use secondaries almost never ideally, a true lager is one time when you might. And yes, Northern Brewers instructions are poor, which is dissapointing considering how great their products are. But that's ok, you've discovered HBT! Its only going to get better from here

Thanks for the responses.

I've got to admit, I'm a little discouraged by the fermenting temps needed on a lot of the beers I'm looking at. I read "The Joy of Homebrewing" and bits and pieces of other books and it made it look like you boil the wort, quickly bring the temp down, add to ferment bucket with yeast, and store in a dark closet corner. Easy enough. I just can't imagine their closets being in the low 60's temperature-wise.

Are there any styles that do well with a room temperature of 75 degrees or so? In NC, we only have a few cold months where my thermostat is in the high 60's. Any recommended yeasts that do OK in the 75 degree range?

At least nobody's closet in Charlotte NC If you've got one, basements tend to be cool too.

Absolutely there are some beer styles that prefer higher temps. Look to Belgian styles.

Otherwise a swamp cooler is fairly easy to make. Or like bottlebomber suggests, go ahead and ferment warm and learn what the result is. You said your friend fermented something at room temp and it turned out good. If it's the same beer you're making, you might be able to ferment warm and still like it. It partly depends on what style of beer you like. If you like your beer more fruity, then go ahead and ferment warmer. If you want a cleaner, more "lager like" beer you really need to put some effort into temp control.

All you need is this: a rubbermaid chest or even better an ice chest that will fit the fermenter inside. Put the fermenter in, and put a half bag of ice in there along with enough water to bring it up level with the brew in the fermenter. I would let it sit like this for 2 hours before even pitching your yeast, to get it down to a good pitch temp in the 60s. At this point, you can use frozen gallons of water (Crystal Gyser works best because the PETF plastic doesn't crack like HDPE the cloudy stuff) and put one a day in there for the first three days, after which your yeast profile has been determined. If you have 2 gallons, just swap them back and forth to the freezer.

Even beers that like the 70s such as Belgian strains still like being pitched at cooler temps. If you want to make great beer, you will HAVE to find a way to ferment in the 60s and the way I just described is cheap and easy. Then, after a while, you will get sick of this and buy a climate controlled chest freezer, and maybe build an addition onto your home just for brewing

I'm heading out today to pick up the equipment to make the swamp cooler. Really appreciate the advice!

BuffettPack said:

I'm heading out today to pick up the equipment to make the swamp cooler. Really appreciate the advice!

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All you really need is the tub... the whole thing with putting towels on it and a fan blowing on it is bogus, it does very little but waste electricity. Just the chest, and some ice. That's all you need.

bottlebomber said:

All you really need is the tub... the whole thing with putting towels on it and a fan blowing on it is bogus, it does very little but waste electricity. Just the chest, and some ice. That's all you need.

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Chest ice and water does work well. However a wet towel around the bucket does lower the temp some. Albeit only a few degrees but it still works. It's the same principal as putting a wet towel around your neck. The evaporation process is what is cooling it down, not the actual wet towel. It isn't the best method but it does work. If my closet was at 73, a wet towel would bring it down to 70.

I'm going to pick up the Igloo Ice Cube (60 qt) from Lowe's. Want the max cold version but don't want to spend $60 right now. Would be nice to be able to fully close the cooler lid with the fermentation bucket inside (or a 5 gallon better bottle) for times when I need to maintain a really low temp. Not sure I'll be able to do that with the Ice Cube model.

Not planning on the t-shirt/fan method as I feel like I should be able to keep in the 60F range fairly easily without trying it.

BuffettPack said:

I'm going to pick up the Igloo Ice Cube (60 qt) from Lowe's. Want the max cold version but don't want to spend $60 right now. Would be nice to be able to fully close the cooler lid with the fermentation bucket inside (or a 5 gallon better bottle) for times when I need to maintain a really low temp. Not sure I'll be able to do that with the Ice Cube model.

Not planning on the t-shirt/fan method as I feel like I should be able to keep in the 60F range fairly easily without trying it.

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Here's my way of doing it!

I made a new lid out of 4 layers of foam, cutting the circle inside with a dremel:

Yooper said:

Here's my way of doing it!

I made a new lid out of 4 layers of foam, cutting the circle inside with a dremel:

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I have always liked your chamber. Simple and easy to make. Gets the job done.

Do you use this when the temp is colder than the range you want? How would you heat it, with an electric pad?

Yooper said:

Here's my way of doing it!

I made a new lid out of 4 layers of foam, cutting the circle inside with a dremel:

Click to expand...

Nice! I think I might try that. What kind of foam did you use? It looks like foam rubber...

h22lude said:

I have always liked your chamber. Simple and easy to make. Gets the job done.

Do you use this when the temp is colder than the range you want? How would you heat it, with an electric pad?

Click to expand...

I use an el cheapo ($7) aquarium heater. It works great! I put it in the water bath, and don't even circulate it.

bottlebomber said:

Nice! I think I might try that. What kind of foam did you use? It looks like foam rubber...

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It's the wallboard foam- like you'd use for insulating a room/house, I guess. It comes in 4x8 sheets, and I cut four layers and stacked them to fit. I used some scrap pieces of wood for handles, with clothesline, so I could pull the lid up. I throw a splash of bleach in the water bath to help with any mold/mildew.

Yooper - I like that setup. Reason why I was looking at the 60 quart was to copy it (saw it in an older thread). Ended up picking up a plastic tub (the kind with the ropes on the sides...I know, don't carry by the rope). Was $8. Figure I better get a few homebrews in before I invest in the Igloo. Hopefully, I can find a price drop on it sometime in the future too. $33 at Lowes. $60 for the Max Cold.

BuffettPack said:

Yooper - I like that setup. Reason why I was looking at the 60 quart was to copy it (saw it in an older thread). Ended up picking up a plastic tub (the kind with the ropes on the sides...I know, don't carry by the rope). Was $8. Figure I better get a few homebrews in before I invest in the Igloo. Hopefully, I can find a price drop on it sometime in the future too. $33 at Lowes. $60 for the Max Cold.

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Yeah, but............I kept the regular lid so I also have a rolling cooler when I'm not using it for a fermentation chiller. I use it often, to take beer to parties, and our share of stuff for BBQs. So, it's doing double duty. One of the great things about living in a cold climate is that it's 66 degrees right now in my basement, and I have 10 gallons of APA fermenting right at 68 degrees without a cooler at all. If I needed it more often, I'd probably have to come up with something else!

Yeah, it was a nice looking cooler. Had I never heard of homebrewing, I would have wanted it. Checked some deal websites and saw that some Targets were selling them for less than $4 last month. Missed the boat on that one.

Problem is I already have a perfectly good cooler for everything else. I tried to convince my wife that I needed one cooler for beer (the Igloo) and another for resting smoked pork shoulders (my old cooler) but she didn't buy it. With the kettle, recipe, and kit, I'm already $140 in the hole (she's not yet buying the argument this will save $ in the future if I keep adding $30 on here or there).

We won't hit 68 degree consistently indoors until January here. I usually hate cold weather, but this hobby is giving me a reason to look forward to it.

Yooper said:

I use an el cheapo ($7) aquarium heater. It works great! I put it in the water bath, and don't even circulate it.

Click to expand...

How well will a bucket fit in there? Probably stick out too much huh

bottlebomber said:

All you really need is the tub... the whole thing with putting towels on it and a fan blowing on it is bogus, it does very little but waste electricity. Just the chest, and some ice. That's all you need.

Click to expand...

I'm finding it does help some, even sans fan (I've never tried a fan on it). It's 85 in here and 72 in my bucket with a wet blanket on. The apfelwein, which does not have a wet blanket on it, is almost 78.

It takes electricity to make ice, too Either the ice makers' or yours.

BonnieJ said:

I'm finding it does help some, even sans fan (I've never tried a fan on it). It's 85 in here and 72 in my bucket with a wet blanket on. The apfelwein, which does not have a wet blanket on it, is almost 78.

It takes electricity to make ice, too Either the ice makers' or yours.

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Im gonna make the Yooper rig... good call on the cost of ice, its certainly not free, unless you live in Antarctica, or Canada I need a gallon of ice twice a day to hold 60s in my 90 degree garage using my rubbermaid chest, and im betting I could get away with a 2 liter bottle once a day in an ice chest