HOPS-BOPS 2012 Results?

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Okay I was there, entered beers, and stewarded entries for this competition. I don't know everything about what happened, but I'll provide some insight.

1. Ribbons for 1, 2, and 3 were given out at the event for each category (some were collapsed). Judging for each of the flights was completed and BOS announced. I was there for almost the whole day. Score sheets are supposed to be scanned and distributed early this week.

2. The organizer for this even had to pull out at the last minute because of family issues, so it's not been the best organized competition. However, people are trying their best. I think this is part of the reason why the score sheets aren't back and results not posted

3. During judging all the beer was blinded. Anyone that submitted a beer to a certain category was not allowed to judge that category. There were many BJCP certified, national and even 1 master Judge there to make sure rules were followed. Top 3 places in Wood-aged, Fruit Beer, Belgian Specialty, 23A, and a couple other categories were eligible for entrance to an event during Philly Beer Week, Extreme Homebrew Fest. The winner of that event gets to brew a beer for the GABF Pro-Am. The winner is picked by a combination of popular vote, Sam Caligione, and the owners of Home Sweet Homebrew

4. The Administrative hold-up, I think is because some of the entries into the competition this year may have been from pro-brewers or homebrewers brewing on commercial equipment. I think a couple brewers were familiar or known to be starting brewpubs. I think they organizers are trying to determine if some of these winners were actually eligible in the first place. This is purely speculation though. As I googled a couple of the repeat winners, and some results showed that they were starting or had ambitions of starting a brewery. However, I know lots of us are "head brewers" of our home brewery--I think this is different if someone is actually the brewer of a brewpub trying to get BJCP reviews of their test batches before going to market or opening.
Thank you, sir. I guess patience applies to ALL facets of brewing. :mug:
 
You wouldn't believe the snarky A** comment that I got in a reply from Nancy of Home Sweet Homebrew when I asked how an administrative review worked for a beer competition and told them that it may be helpful to post something in this thread as to what the hold up may be. I'm glad I've never done business with them before.

Although homebrewtalk may be aflame with impatience, the results will not be released
prematurely. The competition organizers will not compelled to rush to post the outcome
because some people demand 'instant gratification'. Remember that competitions have been
held long before the Internet and computers, and you used to have to wait far beyond the
day of the competition for the results. Perhaps there are reasons you are not privy to
as for the delay.
Nancy

I love the comment that "competitions were held long before the internet and computers"

Yeah, and we used to ride horses too. Doesn't mean I can't get there faster in my car. That's a BS argument. Why don't we go back to running our machines on whale oil too?

Good to finally hear someone chime in who was there. It does appear there was an issue that needs to be resolved. Not sure why they couldn't just post that on their site to prevent people getting mad.
 
Okay I was there, entered beers, and stewarded entries for this competition. I don't know everything about what happened, but I'll provide some insight.

1. Ribbons for 1, 2, and 3 were given out at the event for each category (some were collapsed). Judging for each of the flights was completed and BOS announced. I was there for almost the whole day. Score sheets are supposed to be scanned and distributed early this week.

2. The organizer for this even had to pull out at the last minute because of family issues, so it's not been the best organized competition. However, people are trying their best. I think this is part of the reason why the score sheets aren't back and results not posted

3. During judging all the beer was blinded. Anyone that submitted a beer to a certain category was not allowed to judge that category. There were many BJCP certified, national and even 1 master Judge there to make sure rules were followed. Top 3 places in Wood-aged, Fruit Beer, Belgian Specialty, 23A, and a couple other categories were eligible for entrance to an event during Philly Beer Week, Extreme Homebrew Fest. The winner of that event gets to brew a beer for the GABF Pro-Am. The winner is picked by a combination of popular vote, Sam Caligione, and the owners of Home Sweet Homebrew

4. The Administrative hold-up, I think is because some of the entries into the competition this year may have been from pro-brewers or homebrewers brewing on commercial equipment. I think a couple brewers were familiar or known to be starting brewpubs. I think they organizers are trying to determine if some of these winners were actually eligible in the first place. This is purely speculation though. As I googled a couple of the repeat winners, and some results showed that they were starting or had ambitions of starting a brewery. However, I know lots of us are "head brewers" of our home brewery--I think this is different if someone is actually the brewer of a brewpub trying to get BJCP reviews of their test batches before going to market or opening.


Do you happen to remember who won BOS?
 
I entered this competition last year, won a gold and silver if I can toot my own horn lol. I remember getting my score sheets by Wednesday, it didn't both me much bc the results were posted Sunday morning. It's a shame things are going so poorly.
 
Yep, my phone is a piece of crap.

1015121905.jpg
 
You wouldn't believe the snarky A** comment that I got in a reply from Nancy of Home Sweet Homebrew when I asked how an administrative review worked for a beer competition and told them that it may be helpful to post something in this thread as to what the hold up may be. I'm glad I've never done business with them before.



I love the comment that "competitions were held long before the internet and computers"

Yeah, and we used to ride horses too. Doesn't mean I can't get there faster in my car. That's a BS argument. Why don't we go back to running our machines on whale oil too?

Good to finally hear someone chime in who was there. It does appear there was an issue that needs to be resolved. Not sure why they couldn't just post that on their site to prevent people getting mad.

4. The Administrative hold-up, I think is because some of the entries into the competition this year may have been from pro-brewers or homebrewers brewing on commercial equipment. I think a couple brewers were familiar or known to be starting brewpubs. I think they organizers are trying to determine if some of these winners were actually eligible in the first place. This is purely speculation though. As I googled a couple of the repeat winners, and some results showed that they were starting or had ambitions of starting a brewery. However, I know lots of us are "head brewers" of our home brewery--I think this is different if someone is actually the brewer of a brewpub trying to get BJCP reviews of their test batches before going to market or opening.

There is no issue here. You cannot disqualify someone because they are an "aspiring" professional brewer. Actually, you can't even disqualify a pro brewer so long as they didn't brew their entry on a commercial system. If that's really the issue, that's bull****.
 
You wouldn't believe the snarky A** comment that I got in a reply from Nancy of Home Sweet Homebrew when I asked how an administrative review worked for a beer competition and told them that it may be helpful to post something in this thread as to what the hold up may be. I'm glad I've never done business with them before.



I love the comment that "competitions were held long before the internet and computers"

Yeah, and we used to ride horses too. Doesn't mean I can't get there faster in my car. That's a BS argument. Why don't we go back to running our machines on whale oil too?

Good to finally hear someone chime in who was there. It does appear there was an issue that needs to be resolved. Not sure why they couldn't just post that on their site to prevent people getting mad.
I honestly think that she was just kidding and being sarcastic. I'm there pretty often, Nancy is a saucy lady :p I just know that there was an adjustment that had to be made based on the organizer not being able to make it to the event on Saturday so maybe they are just sorting through the paperwork and wanted to send out score sheets before posting the official results?
Do you happen to remember who won BOS?

Can't recall off the top of my head.

There is no issue here. You cannot disqualify someone because they are an "aspiring" professional brewer. Actually, you can't even disqualify a pro brewer so long as they didn't brew their entry on a commercial system. If that's really the issue, that's bull****.

I don't know what going on. I was just speculating stupidly
 
1st, 2nd and 3rd BOS was won by the same guy, Dennis Decker (spelling?). He had other awards too. It was a pretty small competition. I think categories 1 through 7 were combined. My Alt won 1st on the same table as my Hefeweizen that got 3rd.
 
1st, 2nd and 3rd BOS was won by the same guy, Dennis Decker (spelling?). He had other awards too. It was a pretty small competition. I think categories 1 through 7 were combined. My Alt won 1st on the same table as my Hefeweizen that got 3rd.

That explains the hold up on the results. Dennis Decker is a professional brewer according to this website.


http://www.elsinorebrewing.com/#!awards
 
HOPS BOPS rules:

Only home-brewed (not commercial or commercially assisted) beers may be entered (must conform to AHA guidelines for homebrew).
Entries that do not follow these guidelines and entry requirements will be disqualified. Disqualified entries may be judged but are not eligible for any of the awards.


AHA guidelines:
Your homebrew cannot have been brewed on equipment used to brew beverages for any
commercial purpose, whether for commercial research, production or any other purpose,
including equipment at brew-on-premises establishments.

According to that, assuming this Dennis is the same guy from Elsinore Brewing, he would be disqualified from winning awards.
 
It was all EBC named beers that won so I have to assume it is the same Dennis as Elsinore.
 
From his website, it looks like he stole some of the awards from honest homebrewers at this years BUZZ Off too.

Nothing against putting my beers up against the best, but rules are rules.

That said, the guy has put some damn good beer into competitions!
 
The EBC website says they don't have a location or finished business plan yet. It also sounds like he's still using his homebrew system as a "half barrel pilot brewing system". I wouldn't condemn his efforts just yet, until all the facts are known. Who knows what actual licensing he has if any?
 
From their website:
EBC Black IPA takes Gold at the 2012 National Homebrew Competition!

Head brewer Dennis Decker has been entering Elsinore beers in Homebrew Competitions to get feedback from BJCP certified beer judges.

Our beer has colleted dozens of 1st place medals and placed in the top 4 "Best of Show" multiple times.


So..... if the national homebrew competition allowed it....
 
I think this comes down to trying to judge intention. If you go by the letter of the law for the AHA guidelines, then he would be disq. as he is using the comps for feedback on pilot batches as he states. Which is very clear in the rules. I guess I don't have a problem with what he is doing, but if they find that he broke the rules, then he broke the rules. I think there is a grey area on this one and he is firmly in the middle of it. I don't envy the competition organizer on how to handle it. How do you go back and change BOS awards after the fact? I don't think you can.

As far as the NHC, I am sure they had no idea what was going on, so they had no way to do anything about it. I bet if they knew beforehand, they would have disq him.

A partner and I were working on a business plan earlier this year and I was working on pilot batches for the brewery. I didn't enter any of those in competition, even though I was using the same equipment that I have always used. I guess I felt that if I was doing it to open a pro brewery then I wasn't really doing it in the spirit of amateur or home brewing. Our main investor fell through on the brewery though, so I'm back to pure home brewing.
 
What's the dif? Guy doesn't have a license. Ask the U.S. gov what qualifies as homebrew. Doesn't matter your intentions, your equipment, whatever. It's the license. No license = homebrew. There is no magical advantage this guy has anyways. Give him his medals.

Although if he entered ten entries or something, I think that would be kinda lame.
 
What's the dif? ... Ask the U.S. gov what qualifies as homebrew.
The AHA is not the US Government. The AHA has stated what is and what isn't considered a homebrewer for competition purposes.

He may not be a licenced commercial brewery yet, but he has clearly stated on his website that he is brewing for commercial research. I don't see this as a grey area. Black and white!

requoted from AHA:
Your homebrew cannot have been brewed on equipment used to brew beverages for any commercial purpose, whether for commercial research, production or any other purpose, including equipment at brew-on-premises establishments.
 
The AHA is not the US Government. The AHA has stated what is and what isn't considered a homebrewer for competition purposes.

He may not be a commercial brewery yet, but he has clearly stated on his website that he is brewing for commercial research. I don't see this as a grey area. Black and white!

requoted from AHA:

Fine, then disqualify me. I'm a HOMEBREWER who plans on opening a nano eventually. I brewed my entries on the same aluminum pot I've used for the last five years, and fermented them in a plastic bucket submerged in a tub of water with a shirt over it.

Do I deserve to be disqualified because of my eventual intentions? Because I have some sort of unfair advantage? Even if I had a Sabco and five angel investors paying for my ingredients and entry fees, there's still no reason you couldn't beat me. No reason.

The way I had understood it is the reason to keep pro breweries from entering homebrew comps is 1) they make commercial beer and 2) there are competitions for them that are only open to commercial beer. Since it seems this guy doesn't have a license, he doesn't make commercial beer. So he can't enter the GABF or World Beer Cup.

Competitions should encourage competition. You want the best entries possible in the competition, because that's moving the hobby forward. This guy is obviously a talented brewer. Why exclude him?
 
Do I deserve to be disqualified because of my eventual intentions?
If you put something like this in print, yes.
Elsinore Brewing Company is a start-up Craft Brewery in the Hudson Valley Region of New York State. Siebel Institute "Concise" brewing course gradute and Head Brewer Dennis Decker is fine tuning our recipe's on our half barrel pilot brewing system as we put together our 15 barrel system and finalize the location and business plan for our commercial brewery/ brewpub. Our goal is to have our beer for sale in 2013. We will be posting updates on our progress as we go.
"Eventual intentions" are one thing. This guy has clearly crossed the line into starting a commercial business and is using Homebrew competitions as advertising. It's fine to say, "When I was a homebrewer I won these awards." Once you formally state your business intentions for advertising purposes you're no longer simply a homebrewer.

Does he make great beer? Yes.
Do I personally have any problem competing against this guy? No.
Is he breaking the rules? No doubt in my mind.

The AHA had to draw the line somewhere. He does not fall on the side of homebrewer.
 
If you put something like this in print, yes.

"Eventual intentions" are one thing. This guy has clearly crossed the line into starting a commercial business and is using Homebrew competitions as advertising. It's fine to say, "When I was a homebrewer I won these awards." Once you formally state your business intentions for advertising purposes you're no longer simply a homebrewer.

Does he make great beer? Yes.
Do I personally have any problem competing against this guy? No.
Is he breaking the rules? No doubt in my mind.

The AHA had to draw the line somewhere. He does not fall on the side of homebrewer.

Ok, that's kinda lame.
 
Same here.

Interesting debate, but I dont see why the scoresheets cant go out.

I agree. Whether or not this guys is eligible, it doesn't change the comments on my score sheet and the reviewer comments are no more or less valid because of who entered the competition. I've score sheets usually take a couple days to arrive, so I'm fine with that.

IMO brewers should regulate themselves--brewers code and all that jazz. It's totally on the honor system. If you wanted, you could strip the labels off DFH ales or Victory Lagers and clean up in these comps. Not saying anyone is doing that, but there's really no way to know. We just have to accept that everyone that submits a beer to a competition brews it at home on their own equipment. Organizers can't hire a PI to follow everyone around to make sure everyone is following the rules, or that an infected wheat beer wasn't submitted as a sour :p
 
Im not in the HOPS club but I subscribe to their mailing list since Im local, but Nancy just sent this out.

Hi HOPSters!

The October Meeting will be this Wednesday, the 17th, at the usual time
(after 6ish), at HSH. Should be an interesting meeting..

See ya!
Nancy

So I'm assuming that they will either have a decision made by then or settle on something that night at their meeting.
 
I don't think anyone should regret that they sent in entries. I was there for the beer judging part at least and that was done right. I didn't get to see score sheets, but it looked like the judges were doing a good job writing extensive comments and there were several certified judges and a couple National and Master Judges.

Organization could've been better and as you could tell from the last set of emails from Bruce, things were a little crazy near the end.

I'm planning on going to the meeting Wednesday and I'll report back any updates.
 
Yeah, so did I. The problem is that half of them aren't my beers. I have contacted them to see if they can fix it.

Josh
 

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