Attempting 40%+ ABV beer... "Barley Brandy"

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1) I don't want to know what the pic was...

2) I'm pysched some folks are getting something out of this whole experiment. That's cool and, as I've said a million times, what I was hoping for.

3) I've finally done another batch of already concentraded beer... I brought it up to room temp and it still doesn't light so I don't think I'm up and over the 40% ABV mark.

I'm not 100% sure what i'm going to do from here because it IS actually getting pretty thick on the palette, which surprises me since it really dried out quick a bit at the end.

I might just take what I have, let it age for a while and then send it to a lab to see where I am (I am really thinking I'm north of 30% even though probably not by much).

I might keep pulling off small amounts and re-freezing to see if i can finally get it over 40%.

We'll see.

Either way... if anyone has learned anything from this goat rodeo... that's pretty cool. i think I have.
 
I need to look at some more calculators. On my Applejack the gravity is 0.998-1.000 and the refractometer reads 10.8 brix. I think that figures out to 14.8% abv if my calculator is right. It will still freeze in my standard side by side kitchen freezer. I'm gonna play with it some more to see what I can get.
 
Cape Brewing said:
Either way... if anyone has learned anything from this goat rodeo... that's pretty cool. i think I have.
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Wow. This suddenly sounds like a twisted afterschool special. Did you learn that when Coach touches you inappropriately, you should tell your mom and dad?

And yeah... you don't want to know what the pic was. Though Cheesefood had returned for a moment.
 
weirdboy said:
How cold does your freezer get? That should give you a fairly close estimate as to the max ABV% I'd think.
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It goes all the way up to "7". Ha, just joking. I need to stick a decent thermometer in there to see.
 
the_bird said:
Wow. This suddenly sounds like a twisted afterschool special. Did you learn that when Coach touches you inappropriately, you should tell your mom and dad?
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Damn it Bird... you may not care but....

fist-pump-baby.jpg
 
the_bird said:
Wow. This suddenly sounds like a twisted afterschool special. Did you learn that when Coach touches you inappropriately, you should tell your mom and dad?

And yeah... you don't want to know what the pic was. Though Cheesefood had returned for a moment.
Click to expand...

Cape Brewing said:
Damn it Bird... you may not care but....
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Yeah, I was at a high school this morning checking some activity buses. I can see why teachers are getting themselves into trouble. Put some decent clothes on the kids and I couldn't tell you if they were a teacher or student from 30'. I got my buses inspected and got out of there.

It was a pretty sh!tty pic.
 
ArcaneXor said:
According to TTB information that was provided to Basic Brewing Radio, they don't consider freezing a form of distillation (which it is not) and don't have a problem with it.

I think you are more likely to be arrested for having a wort chiller than a gallon of beer in the freezer.
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The only crime here is teh continual bombardement of misinformation.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
The only crime here is teh continual bombardement of misinformation.
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I've read the TTB page on it. It reads back and forth about beer concentrate and reconstitution to within 0.5% before sale. I'm not selling anything. They come and and call distillation illegal without proper permits.
 
I don't think the TTB has any ruling at all on whether freeze concentration is illegal for a private individual to produce for their own consumption (or at least not-for-sale). All the TTB cares about is that you are paying the proper taxes on sold alcohol and the definitions and permits they are talking about do just that.. Describe the appropriate taxes for the different classifications.

I believe distillation for private use is defined at the state level and it varies by state.

Either way.. I am not concerned about the State police showing up at my door because I froze concentrated a couple gallons of homebrew.
 
jeepinjeepin said:
I would love to see this verified by TTB.
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Two buddies and I just got our Brewers Notice (Federal commercial brewing license) from the TTB a couple of weeks ago and they don't care at all about what you're doing or how you do it... except with how it affects your taxes. The TTB isn't a regulatory body that deals with the laws of what you can and can't do. All they care about is stuff like how the brewery is laid out... so that you (and they) can properly track what has and has not yet been taxed. They want to see how your non-taxed stuff is physically separated from your taxed stuff. They want financial records and surety bonds so that they know... the taxes will be paid. That's all they care about.

So... like I was saying... they don't care what you are making as long as the proper tax rates are applied. If you want to distill and that is legal in your area, great... have at it... but then they will come in and say, "ok, here is the classification for what you are making and here is the tax rate. Make sure it is paid". That's all they do.

Once you remove "paying taxes" from the equation... the TTB doesn't have anything to do with it. So, if you aren't selling it, there is no taxes. If there are no taxes, the TTB falls out of the equation completely.

ACtually... that's a bit of a lie... they DO care about distilling... Beer and wine for personal use are in the clear but if you are specifically distilling spirits... you DO have to pay taxes. They don't care that you are making it... you just need to pay taxes on it, even if it is for personal use
 
i love how Gila swoops in, responds to a post that happened 27 pages and over a year ago, and starts a pointless distillation debate.

edit: further love for Cape taking the opportunity to tell people he's starting a 3 liter brewery.
 
Hell no. It's not thrown away at all. It is sitting in a carboy aging.... Which I was going to do anyway.

MY best guess is it is in the low 30%'s in terms of ABV and when I really feel like it, I might try to concentrate it a bit more but I think I mentione it IS actually getting a bit thick on the palate. I don't think I will be able to concentrate it much more.
 
It seems strange that is would be getting thicker on the palate. I mean I know you are in theory concentrating the dissolved solids, although it seems like those would be left in the ice to some extent. However the more concentrated the alcohol is the lower the specific gravity, which I would guess would lower the mouthfeel.. I may have to try this myself.
 
Some anecdotal side information. Some years ago there was a researcher looking for an alternative way to distill water, specifically sea water, that took less energy to accomplish. In a nutshell what he did was to take sea water and spray it into a mist in a holding pond in freezing weather. The water froze essentially into snow, while the brine drained to the bottom. The end result was potable water from the manufactured snow. Don't know if you could do something similar and accomplish the same thing. Say in a walk in freezer, spray the nearly frozen wort @ 32F into a collection vessel with a sump of sorts, maybe a mashtun with a false bottom? Collect the 'snow' and remove it, leaving behind the concentrate.
 
CS223 said:
Some anecdotal side information. Some years ago there was a researcher looking for an alternative way to distill water, specifically sea water, that took less energy to accomplish. In a nutshell what he did was to take sea water and spray it into a mist in a holding pond in freezing weather. The water froze essentially into snow, while the brine drained to the bottom. The end result was potable water from the manufactured snow. Don't know if you could do something similar and accomplish the same thing. Say in a walk in freezer, spray the nearly frozen wort @ 32F into a collection vessel with a sump of sorts, maybe a mashtun with a false bottom? Collect the 'snow' and remove it, leaving behind the concentrate.
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One it would have to be around -15, not 32. Two, holy oxidation batman.
 
CS223 said:
Say in a walk in freezer, spray the nearly frozen wort @ 32F into a collection vessel with a sump of sorts, maybe a mashtun with a false bottom? Collect the 'snow' and remove it, leaving behind the concentrate.
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This sounds like something my wife could be on board with :drunk:
 
bottlebomber said:
It seems strange that is would be getting thicker on the palate. I mean I know you are in theory concentrating the dissolved solids, although it seems like those would be left in the ice to some extent. However the more concentrated the alcohol is the lower the specific gravity, which I would guess would lower the mouthfeel.. I may have to try this myself.
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I really didn't expect it to go that direction either but it definitely has. I can't explain it either. There have been all sorts of theories bounced around on this thread earlier on what would happen and I have no way of knowing what the causes are specifically.... Just the results.
 
I think you should just chug what's left and be done with it once and for all. Maybe you've invented the new "bath salts".
 
I have been on this site for a year and never came across this thread. This thread is epic and really entertaining, read it all.

I'm going very soon for a high ABV beer. Shooting for only a touch over 20%. I don't have the capacity to freeze it but after reading this, I wish i did. I will also boil it for a long time to reduce about 80 liters into 25. Then add it little by little to the fermenter. Will see if I get better luck to bring down the gravity.
 
Akavango said:
I have been on this site for a year and never came across this thread. This thread is epic and really entertaining, read it all.

I'm going very soon for a high ABV beer. Shooting for only a touch over 20%. I don't have the capacity to freeze it but after reading this, I wish i did. I will also boil it for a long time to reduce about 80 liters into 25. Then add it little by little to the fermenter. Will see if I get better luck to bring down the gravity.
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Really? This thread will kill more brain cells than a keg o' beer!
 
Subscribed! Being a fan of penguin's "Sink The Bismarck"... I have a few bottles.... I've had many of discussions of "partial freezing" over some home brew.

Good luck!.. and Sink the BIZmark..
 
I think I've taken the beer as far as its going to go and it is currently aging. My best guess is that it ended up in the low 30's in terms of ABV but I really should get off my butt and have it tested to confirm.

It developed a lot of "soy sauce" flavor and I'm not 100% positive on how that developed (open to feedback on that).

i have dropped some oak chips into it to see if i can fight off some of the soy sauce flavor and we'll see.

It's funny you bumped the thread because I have been seriously thinking about trying it again given some of the things I learned with the first go around.

What I would do differently is;

- first and foremost... I wouldn't go crazy trying to hit the hightest OG possible out of the gates. Since I am going to freeze concentrate it anyway, there was no reason to shoot that high out of the gates.
- I would probably add at least some candy sugar to the grain bill as the current beer is a bit think and syrupy on the palate.
- I would still come out of the gates with a large cake of US-05, and then go 099... and then still probably go with a distiller's turbo yeast to try to get it to dry out as much as possible.
- i would cut WAY back on the oxygen shots I was giving it and probably not add any oxygen at all after the US-05 had chooped through a good chunk of what it will eat
- still would mash really low for a really long mash
 

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