Weird Off-Flavors - Here's my water profile

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Kayos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
1,364
Reaction score
10
Location
Santa Clarita
It's obviously hard, can this be causing my metallic off-flavor? I am trying to see if I should be looking at other my alum. pot, ss braid, ........but this flavor is like licking a nickel my last 3 brews - from a wheat to an ESB

Calcium: 107
Mag: 33.8
Chlorides: 71
Sodium: 86.1
Potassium: 3.3
Hardness CaCO3: 407
ph: 7.47
Alkalinity as CaCO3: 240
Nitrate (As NO3) 16.8
Fluoride: 0.40
Sulfates: 226
 
You've got really hard water. You'd be a good candidate for dilution with distilled, or RO water. I'd try brewing with filtered/RO water first before I started looking at my equipment.
 
I used to brew with my RO, but since going to AG a couple years ago, I thought I'd need some minerals. I usually brew darker beers/ Should I do like a 1:1 dilution or even 2:1 RO?
 
I'd guess that your problem probably is with the water. Were I confronted with this water I would install an RO unit and brew with a blend of that with some of the tap water. Nine parts RO and 1 part tap would give you pretty reasonable numbers for all the ions.
 
I'd guess that your problem probably is with the water. Were I confronted with this water I would install an RO unit and brew with a blend of that with some of the tap water. Nine parts RO and 1 part tap would give you pretty reasonable numbers for all the ions.

I do have an RO system already....9:1?! Wow...wouldn't that be each of my numbers / 9? That seems like not enough.....

Maybe I should know what I'm shooting for here....is there a pretty neutral profile to shoot for before additions? guidance?

Seems like 2.5 or 3:1 might be about right for UK beers.....
 
water profile should be recipe specific, there is no one water profile that will suit every style. I'd start by listening to the 4 water episodes of brew strong, and reading the water chemistry chapter in how to brew.
 
OK, I will do that.

What happens if I want to keep my calcium, but reduce my Mag (like dublin)? Is there a way?
 
Kayos said:
OK, I will do that.

What happens if I want to keep my calcium, but reduce my Mag (like dublin)? Is there a way?

dilute with distilled to the desired mg levels and add back chalk, gypsum, or calcium chloride (depending on sulfate levels and desired residual alkalinity) to reach the desired ca level.

I'd also be concerned with the Na levels in your water. That seems like a lot of sodium for most styles.
 
dilute with distilled to the desired mg levels and add back chalk, gypsum, or calcium chloride (depending on sulfate levels and desired residual alkalinity) to reach the desired ca level.

I'd also be concerned with the Na levels in your water. That seems like a lot of sodium for most styles.

Wow, you're right. I was looking at London because I just made an ESB, but London seems to have exceptionally high Na levels. I think the right way to go is probably just use RO and add salts as needed per brew.
 
Are you making sure that your mash ph is in check? With that high of bicarbonates you will easily over shoot your ph, causing tannins to be extracted.
 
I do have an RO system already....9:1?! Wow...wouldn't that be each of my numbers / 9? That seems like not enough.....

Maybe I should know what I'm shooting for here....is there a pretty neutral profile to shoot for before additions? guidance?

Seems like 2.5 or 3:1 might be about right for UK beers.....

I have been reading your posts all morning, AJ. I will never question you again!
 
I do have an RO system already....9:1?! Wow...wouldn't that be each of my numbers / 9?

Actually, by 10. That's going to get you down to "soft" water.

That seems like not enough.....

I assume you mean not enough minerals. It is indeed enough for most beers. If you need/want something special such as the crisp minerally taste of an Export or crunchy quality of a Burton ale then you can always add salts.


Maybe I should know what I'm shooting for here....is there a pretty neutral profile to shoot for before additions? guidance?

In the Stickies for this topic there is a water Primer which is intended to get you started with water treatment and it covers most if not all styles pretty well. It's based on what seems to be a big secret: the softer the water the better the beer. Universally applicable? No but in many cases using soft water will get you a good beer. So the Primer recommends starting with soft water (such as you would get with a 9:1 dilution) and addition of calcium chloride to get the calcium level up to where the yeast are happy etc with the added benefit that chloride, up to a point, is generally a good thing. An important part of this is that you don't want to rely on calcium to set mash pH. It takes too much of it to get the drop you usually need so use of sauermalz is recommended. What I really hope people will do is buy a pH meter and use it to tune their mash pH by the use of sauermalz or lactic acid or, for British beers, CRS (a blend of hydrochloric and sulfuric acids).

Sulfate I leave entirely to the taste of the brewer. Add as much as you like but start low to see how the beer is with little or none.

Seems like 2.5 or 3:1 might be about right for UK beers.....

Possibly but you will have more control over what is actually in the water by starting with a "blank sheet of paper". So. Cal. is not known for great tasting water. Your metallic flavors probably do not come from the hardness but quite possibly from high levels of iron, manganese... A high level of dilution will cut those down as well as the other ions.

A lot of people make not so great beer by trying to over engineer the water. It should be a KISS process unless you are really really conversant with the chemistry. There are spreadsheets and websites out there that will lead you down the garden path. Start KISS and grope for what's good in the same way you would experiment with the amount of fenugreek that gives you the best Bratwurst recipe.

WRT bicarbonate ion concentration: divide alkalinity by 50 and multiply by 61 to calculate bicarbonate.
 
Just read a bunch more on all of this. I think I get it (as far as the minerals)...except every time I put in my numbers into any of the calculators, I get a pH of around 4.8 with 90% RO water as recommended. Should I really leave it like this for the mash?
 
Back
Top