Newbie observations and questions

So I just finished brewing my first batch of beer and I thought I would share some observations and ask a question or two.

I brewed in the house and the house smells like a brewery. Not that it is good or bad, it just does.

I had an epiphany when we finished the steeping of the specialty grains and opened the bottle of LME and they smelled the same. It was one of those Ah Ha moments for a new brewer.

From start to finish took nearly 3.5 hours. The cooling of the wort took less time than expected. I had 3 gals of brewing liquid and use an ice bath followed by a few fresh sinks of cold water. From boil to 80 deg took 20 minutes.

SG came out perfect for the Autumn Amber from Midwest at 1.043. Using muntons dry yeast.


Feel free to ask questions.

I have one. It takes ~20 minutes to get to steeping temp. Then 30-40 minutes steeping. Then you add LME and take it to boil. Another 25 minutes there. Then boil for an hour.

So my question is....Can you boil the hops in a separate pot, then add it to the steeped and mixed malt liquid or is there something about boiling the malt with the hops that makes it come out different?

If it can be done separately, then an hour of brew time can be saved.

Pretty certain that you need to boil the hops with the malt products. I have yet to see anyone discuss saving time by doing otherwise.

So I did a bit more searching on here and I started reading about late extract additions. Isn't this similar to what I was asking? What am I missing?

TsunamiBeer said:

So I did a bit more searching on here and I started reading about late extract additions. Isn't this similar to what I was asking? What am I missing?

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with a late extract add, you'll want to add half of the extract late or at flameout. you'll still want some extract in the boil when you add your hops. if you move up to partial mash, very similar to extract but with some base malt (2 or 6 row, etc.) in the steep with the specialty grains, you could then add all of your extract late or at flameout. check out the link i posted for more info on partial mash brewing.

Partial mash doesn't seem too different than what I am doing now, just the shift from extract with specialty grains to more of the malt from base grains as well. Why wouldn't someone make that leap? Doesn't seem like it would take any longer or be more complicated...

TsunamiBeer said:

Partial mash doesn't seem too different than what I am doing now, just the shift from extract with specialty grains to more of the malt from base grains as well. Why wouldn't someone make that leap? Doesn't seem like it would take any longer or be more complicated...

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There is a little more sensitivity; You have to watch how much water you use, and at what temperature, etc.

That being said, i agree with you as to why not make this jump; my third brew will almost certainly be a partial mash.

I see no reason why you can't boil your hops separately. In fact, because of the lower density of the water you might get better utilization.

Unless there is a pH effect, I think it's fine. Go ahead, make your own path. We all have to, this hobby is still somewhat of a jungle.

TsunamiBeer said:

So my question is....Can you boil the hops in a separate pot, then add it to the steeped and mixed malt liquid or is there something about boiling the malt with the hops that makes it come out different?

If it can be done separately, then an hour of brew time can be saved.

Click to expand...

Hops have to be boiled with the malt to get the proper hop utilization and bittering. Proper bittering usually requires hops to be boiled with the malt for at least 60 mins to actually do the job. That's why pretty much all beer has to be boiled for at least an hour.. As far as making the jump to partial mash, there really is nothing to it. For that matter with a little extra equipment you could make the jump to all grain via BIAB (brew in a bag technique)..

Stauffbier said:

Hops have to be boiled with the malt to get the proper hop utilization and bittering. Proper bittering usually requires hops to be boiled with the malt for at least 60 mins to actually do the job. That's why pretty much all beer has to be boiled for at least an hour.. As far as making the jump to partial mash, there really is nothing to it. For that matter with a little extra equipment you could make the jump to all grain via BIAB (brew in a bag technique)..

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Not to belabor the point, but how much is the right amount of malt that has to be in there for it to happen correctly? People are using late additions, so that much must not be necessary. So is the amount half? If so, then in a partial mash, you could put your DME/LME in with your hops and boil that while your mash is happening on your grains. Mix the two and away you go. If it is a pH issue, then why don't we measure pH to ensure proper bittering, or do we just GUESS that we are getting correct utilization.

I understand this is chemistry and there are reactions happeneing, just trying to make sure I have the right ones working.

TsunamiBeer said:

Not to belabor the point, but how much is the right amount of malt that has to be in there for it to happen correctly? People are using late additions, so that much must not be necessary. So is the amount half? If so, then in a partial mash, you could put your DME/LME in with your hops and boil that while your mash is happening on your grains. Mix the two and away you go. If it is a pH issue, then why don't we measure pH to ensure proper bittering, or do we just GUESS that we are getting correct utilization.

I understand this is chemistry and there are reactions happeneing, just trying to make sure I have the right ones working.

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If you're using only LME then do half at 60 mins and half at 15 mins (or at flameout, I've tried both).. If you are using DME and LME then do the DME at 60 mins and LME at 15 mins or flameout...

For partial mash I would do the mash runnings at 60 mins with the DME and LME at 15 mins or flameout..

Was gonna edit title, but saw I couldn't :-(

Stauffbier said:

If you're using only LME then do half at 60 mins and half at 15 mins (or at flameout, I've tried both).. If you are using DME and LME then do the DME at 60 mins and LME at 15 mins or flameout...

For partial mash I would do the mash runnings at 60 mins with the DME and LME at 15 mins or flameout..

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Stauffbier
So what about the hops? Can it be boiled at the same time in a separate container?

TsunamiBeer said:

Stauffbier
So what about the hops? Can it be boiled at the same time in a separate container?

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I've read that the whole reason you have to have some kind of malt (whether it's LME, DME, or wort from mash runnings) in the beggining of the boil is for hop utilization. Otherwise, you could probably add all of your malts at the end of a "hop boil".. That's why when doing late additions of extract you have to split it up. So, I'm thinking... no, you can't! This is just my opinion based on what I've read. I don't think you would get proper bittering if you boiled hops seperately. You might want to read up on it to confirm. You could always experiment with a one gallon batch...

TsunamiBeer said:

Partial mash doesn't seem too different than what I am doing now, just the shift from extract with specialty grains to more of the malt from base grains as well. Why wouldn't someone make that leap? Doesn't seem like it would take any longer or be more complicated...

Click to expand...

it's not. it just involves a little (or a lot if you choose) of base malt and a little more attention to temps and times during the mash (steep), and a little less (or a lot less) extract. after brewing a few all extract batches, i asked myself the same question, and decided to brew BIAB PM. now, i still do extract beers about once a month, as i received a membership to the Ale of the Month (midwest) for xmas last year, and this year, but the bulk of my brewing is now BIAB PM or AG. it's no more difficult than brewing all extract, just a bit more time consuming. in fact, i enjoy it more than extract brewing as it's more hands on, and gives me much more control over my beers. i'd say give it a go. the only new equipment you'll need is some paint strainer bags. an extra kettle or two doesn't hurt either, but you can do it with your boil kettle for the mash and a few small pots to heat sparge water.

Does it really take you 25 minutes to go from steeping temps to boiling? Maybe you need a better stove. With a gas stove you can get 3 gallons of cold water up to 160 degrees steeping in 10-15 minutes and up to boiling in another 7-10 minutes.

Jayhem said:

Does it really take you 25 minutes to go from steeping temps to boiling? Maybe you need a better stove. With a gas stove you can get 3 gallons of cold water up to 160 degrees steeping in 10-15 minutes and up to boiling in another 7-10 minutes.

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i can do that on my glass top electric, with 6+ gals. but, all stoves aren't created equal. a buddy of mine has a hard time getting a few gallons to boil on his gas range.

Those times were an estimate based on the total time it took me. I didn't time it that closely. I was trying to figure out more about whether the malt has a chemical reaction that cause better hop utilization or if the process we use is based on being simpler to use a single pot. When teaching new people its easier to say "put your malt in, bring to boil, add hops, boil longer." than put this in one pot, put this in another, etc.... For me, saving an hour of time by using two pots may be better at this point if it doesn't hurt the finished product.

For example, my directions that came with the kit say to add the hops when you see the first boiling bubbles. I waited til hot break as discussed on this board, so that added time I am sure, but no boilover

Any other opinions?

I guess my final opinion would be; Stop tying to rush the process. It should be a fun, relaxing thing to brew your beer. If you try to rush things along by cutting corners then it just turns into a chore. Make a day of it! I know that's a lot to ask with kids, families, jobs, and honey-do lists, but a brew day should be slow, calculated, and most of all relaxing. This is what makes it so rewarding.. besides the good beer we make.

Thank You Stauffbier