Need some advice on my IIPA recipe

Here it is:

18 lbs. 8 ounces of American 2-Row
1 lb. 12 ounces of Munich 10L

Mash for 30 minutes, vorlauf and fly sparge to collect 7.5 gallons.

85 minute boil.

1 ounce of Simcoe for 85 minutes
1.5 ounces of Simcoe for 30 minutes
add whirlfloc and yeastex for 20 minutes
1 ounce of Amarillo for 15 minutes
2 ounces of Centennial at whirpool
2 ounces of Apollo at whirlpool

Ferment with a half gallon starter of White labs 001

Dry hop for seven days with 3 ounces of Apollo and 3 ounces of Centennial.

My questions are: 1. should I mash for longer than 30 minutes?

2. Beersmith says to add 25 quarts of water @160F for 75
minutes and then 16 quarts at 202F for 10 minutes.
Why?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!

I would definitely mash for at least 60. Otherwise you run the risk of an overly-malty IPA.

Is Beersmith advising you to do a 75 minute mash there? Otherwise your volumes should already be present from the mash/sparge. If its suggesting a 75 minute mash and then a 10 minute sparge/mashout (more likely), those are the default BS settings for most mash profiles that go for a medium or light body. Which profile are you selecting in the application?

I'm actually looking for a dryer beer with a lighter body (as light as a 9.5% beer can be)

I was thinking of mashing at 149. I'm not too familiar with the mashout procedure. Is that just adding more water toward the end of the schedule before you start sparging? If so, what are the advantages of that? Lighter body?

As you can see, I'm new to brewing and the beersmith software.

With IIPAs, I actually usually go with a 60 minute mash at 149F precisely because I want it fairly dry. Even then, I typically have to add a pound of sugar or so during fermentation to get it down to the level I'm looking for.

I rarely do a mashout, so I can't really speak to how it compares to doing a no-mashout single sparge, mashout then sparge, etc.; if you select a mash profile from Beersmith, you have a few pre-set options (that I expect you're using, anyway): single infusion, no sparge; single infusion, no mash-out; single infusion, batch sparge; ... They all come in varying degrees of body as well.

For an IIPA, I'd go with a single infusion batch sparge light body profile. That'll get your temperature where you want (IIRC, the default for light body is 149F already). Once you've selected that, click the little checkmark button thingie next to the selection field to edit the mash profile directly (at least for Beersmith 2; it's been a while since I used 1.x). Your profile will have a single step: Mash In. Double-click it if you want to change the temperature, water/grain ratio, and duration (Step Time). Make the changes you like and click OK to save it all up.

At that point you should be configured such that you're looking at a simple, single infusion mash with a batch sparge (depending on your water volume, it may recommend a double sparge).

Thanks for the advice. After doing some research, I may add a bit more bittering hops. Maybe another ounce of Simcoe. I want it to be balanced, and the hops I'm using are a bit old (they've been in my freezer for a couple months.)

What do you think about adding a pound or pound and a half of corn sugar to the fermenter? Should I do it as I pitch the yeast or wait a few days until fermentation slows down?

Also with a beer this big, how long should I let it sit in the primary before transferring to secondary for dry hopping?

I am planning on mashing for 75 minutes as beersmith suggests. Thanks again for the advice!

IIPAs are much more drinkable if 10% of the base malt is replaced with sugar. Helps get the FG down.

Don't skimp on the flavor/aroma hops. Go overboard. Dry hop after fermentation is complete.

IMO, any big beer should be mashed for at least an hour. Longer if possible. Make it as fermentable as possible. Mash low (i.e., 150F) and use a highly attenuative yeast (no english ale yeasts!).

If you add the corn sugar, I'd do it about 3-4 days into fermentation. No need to stress the yeast any more than necessary. As for secondary time, I'd go at least 14 days and then check to see where the gravity's at. If it's done fermenting, go ahead and rack onto your dry hops and let them sit for 7-14 more.

If you're worried about drying it out enough, I've had good luck racking the wort on a yeastcake of Nottingham. My last barleywine went from 1.091 to 1.006, and that's with no simple sugars. I think I mashed 90 minutes @ 154F on that one. I didn't count on it going that low, but oh well. Notty is a crazy beast! Also, that was with I think the 9th generation of that yeast. Anyway, something to consider...

If I add corn sugar after 4 or 5 days of fermentation, should I still substitute the sugar for grains to adjust the ABV, or take a gravity reading before pitching the sugar and adjust the sugar addition as necessary?

I usually factor it in when I create the recipe and gauge my OG accordingly. If I plan for 1lb of sugar from the start, I don't adjust it based on my gravity readings. I toss it all in regardless.

Ok, so last minute recipe update, please critique especially the Cascade and Chinook additions since I had to use these as substitutes for Simcoe and Amarillo respectively:

22 lbs. Pale 2-Row
2 lbs. Munich 10L
1.5 lbs. of corn sugar added to fermentor after 4 days.

Mash for 60 minutes at 149F, single infusion batch sparge

2 ounces of Simcoe for 85 minutes
.5 ounces of Simcoe for 30 minutes
1.5 ounces of Chinook for 30 minutes
1 ounce of Cascade for 30 minutes
Whirlfloc tablet and 1.5 teaspoon of yeast nutrient for 20 minutes
1 ounce of Cascade for 15 minutes
1 ounce of Amarillo for 5 minutes
1 ounce of Apollo for 5 minutes
2 ounces of Apollo at flameout
2 ounces of Centennial at flameout

Ferment at 68F with a one gallon starter of White labs 001

Rack to secondary after 14 days and dry hop with 3 ounces of Apollo and 3 ounces of Centennial for an additional 14 days.

Bottle condition for 1 month.

So my main concern is the 1.5 ounces of Chinook for 30 minutes. I wanted to do 2 ounces of Simcoe, but I ran out. Will the Chinook be too harsh?

Also I wanted to use mostly Amarillo for 15 minutes, but had to substitute one ounce of Cascade for 30 minutes and one more for 15. Any thoughts on how this will work?

22# of base malt? That'll be ... large. Is this a 5 gallon batch? With that much grain, you might want to bump to 75 minutes just to ensure the enzymes have enough time to get working.

Hop bill still looks good. Chinook for 30 will be fine; it brings a nice earthy flavor to things, which will be somewhat close to what you'd expect from simcoe (albeit not as piney). Cascade isn't really a perfect sub for Amarillo (ahtanum would work best, I think), but it'll do in a pinch. More grapefruity than lemony in my experience, so that's probably close to what you can expect the difference to be.

With a grain bill this large, I'd also recommend you do a gravity sample prior to racking to secondary just to make sure the yeast has done its job; if not, you may want to go another week just to give it time.

Thanks. This is actually more of a six gallon batch, but I'll be running off almost 10 gallons. I'm compensating for big time boil off and a poorly designed boil keg. I have about 2 gallons of dead space due to not having a dip tube.

I had an idea for straining the hops from the boil keg to the fermentor. I've had LOTS of problems with straining mechanisms inside the pot, so I'm thinking of doing the whirlpool and then running off into the fermentor with a large muslin bag wrapped around the tubing.

I'll clean and sanitize it of course, and then just run the tubing into it and stuff it down to the bottom of the carboy so there's no dripping or spraying. The bag is big enough so I can pull the string out when it's done with all the hop material remaining in the bag. Has anyone tried this before?

I've never done it that way, but it might be worth noting that spraying wouldn't really be a negative factor here; it'd actually be a good way to aerate things. With a beer this large, that would be hugely beneficial. Were it me, I'd try to stuff the bag into the carboy and bind it around the neck. Then run your tubing into the bag and pump away; the important thing is to make sure that the tubing doesn't hit the bottom of the bag, as it could get easily clogged there. Instead, have the bag hang down well below the end of the tubing so that the flow will continue as the bag catches the hop particles at the bottom.

That said, getting the bag out could still be an issue with that much hop material in it. I've tried before, and even with only a few ounces of hops, the bag swells up *fast*.

Very good points. Thanks so much for all the advice! I'm really excited to brew this tomorrow. I'll give an update later on how things went.

Thanks again!

Joe

Joeneugs said:

If I add corn sugar after 4 or 5 days of fermentation, should I still substitute the sugar for grains to adjust the ABV, or take a gravity reading before pitching the sugar and adjust the sugar addition as necessary?

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Corn sugar is no better than table sugar.

You don't want to adjust the ABV. Use software to determine the amount to add. If you don't use software, just add 3/4 lb sugar for each pound of base grain replaced.


[edit: looking at your recipe, I'd replace 2# of the 2-row with 1.5# of sugar ]

Joeneugs said:

I'm compensating for big time boil off and a poorly designed boil keg. I have about 2 gallons of dead space due to not having a dip tube.

Click to expand...

2 gallons????? yikes. time to add a dip tube.

Ok brew day is complete!

So everything went pretty well, except I had the same problem I had with my last brew. Even with the massive grain bill, my SG was only 1.054. I ended up doing a 2 hour boil but still only had 1.070 at the end of it.

My target was 1.090. I'm not sure what went wrong. I had three different thermometers, because, like I said, I've had this problem before and wondered if my temp readings were off. The thermometer I installed on my keg started out at about 149F and after 75 minutes it read about 140F.

My floating dairy thermometer read about 150F the entire time. Didn't budge.

My high tech digital thermometer read anywhere between 144F and 150 the entire time.

I'm getting pretty frusterated with having this same problem every time. Could it be anything else other than my mash temperature being off?

Also, should I still add 1.5 lbs. of sugar since it's not a high gravity brew?

Thanks!

What volume did you end up with? If you're dumping 2 gallons, that'd make for a huge difference in what you can expect.

If you want to add a bit more character to it than simple sugars would produce, you could add a pound or two of extract as well as a pound of sugar. I'd go with 1lb DME and 1lb simple sugar in this case, as it'd get you fairly close to your planned OG.

Well... I started with 10 gallons and I ended up with about 6 gallons with big losses due to massive hop absorption and not as much dead space as I thought. (I ended up tipping the keg to get more out) Boil off was about 1.5 gallons per hour, so about 3 gallons total.

How do I add the DME? Just dump it into the fermentor? When should I do it? Should I boil it in some water first? Should it be mixed?