Help me get that malty taste

I've noticed that ever since I've started All Grain brewing, my beers are kinda flat or thin tasting. None of them have had that nice malty flavor and mouthfeel.

What could I be doing wrong. I was wondering if I made the jump to All Grain too soon.

I usually make 3 Gallon batches. I'm using a round Rubbermaid Cooler as my Mash Tun. I will admit... my gravity measuring skills could use some work. I bought a refractometer to check the gravity before fermentation. After that I use a hydrometer.

Am I not extracting enough sugars during the mash process?? I was thinking about going back and brewing a few extract brews to perfect the process of measuring gravity a little more precise.

You could try mashing at a higher temp.

BUT

It could also be recipe formulation. Post one of your recipes with mash schedule to start.

There's a big difference in the base grain too, so depending on whether you're using US 2 row, or UK Maris Otter, will make a big difference in the maltiness.
US 2 row and Safale- S-05= less malt, cleaner, crisper brew.
UK Ale Malt, like Maris Otter or other, with S-04, or other English yeast= more malt flavor.

ok.. I'll post my last recipe when I get home from work

what is your procedure and what do your numbers (mash temp/time, sparge temp/schedule), runnings gravity, boil times, OG, FG)....

Can't answer this types of questions without the data.

Thanks!

sixtyten said:

I was wondering if I made the jump to All Grain too soon.

Click to expand...

Most likely not - at this point (without seeing any processes or data) it seems more likely to me to be a recipe formulation issue first. You just need to figure out what, specifically, you're trying to fix.

sixtyten said:

Am I not extracting enough sugars during the mash process?? I was thinking about going back and brewing a few extract brews to perfect the process of measuring gravity a little more precise.

Click to expand...

First you gotta hammer out what you're actually trying to accomplish here. There's a difference between sweet, malty, and thick mouthfeel. Different processes and different ingredients will remedy whichever you're trying to fix.

For example, you ask "Am I not extracting enough sugars during the mash process??" You can have poor extraction efficiency (thus less sugars) and still have a thick, malty beer. We'll be able to tell more once you provide more details: mash temp, gravities, recipe, etc.

Everyone has made good points so far. Assuming you understand implications of various base malts and mash temps, the final important factor is your water. Get a water report from your city and study the effects of the mineral levels impact on your beer. This effects the pH of the mash and your efficiency. Beyond that, the choride to sulfate ratio is a very important contributor to either a bitter leaning beer or a malty one.

Ok.. here is the data

Recipe

Dry Stout

batch size : 3.0 gallons
Est original gravity: 1.045
Est Final gravity: 1.013
Actual original gravity:1.035
Actual final gravity: 1.019

Grains and Yeast:
3lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) UK
1lbs .08 oz Flaked Barley
8.4 oz Roasted Barley
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings
1 package Irish Ale (White Labs)


Process:
I mashed in at around 155F for an hour and sparged with 168F water. I ended up with about 4 gallons of wort.

Boil time was 60min and ended up with 3 gallons after the boil.
Fermented for 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary.

Kegged and waited a week to try it and it tastes like carbonated flat/watery beer.

Thanks for all of your help!!

sixtyten said:

Ok.. here is the data

Recipe

Dry Stout

batch size : 3.0 gallons
Est original gravity: 1.045
Est Final gravity: 1.013
Actual original gravity:1.035
Actual final gravity: 1.019

Grains and Yeast:
3lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) UK
1lbs .08 oz Flaked Barley
8.4 oz Roasted Barley
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings
1 package Irish Ale (White Labs)


Process:
I mashed in at around 155F for an hour and sparged with 168F water. I ended up with about 4 gallons of wort.

Boil time was 60min and ended up with 3 gallons after the boil.
Fermented for 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary.

Kegged and waited a week to try it and it tastes like carbonated flat/watery beer.

Thanks for all of your help!!

Click to expand...

If you're looking for a big, malty beer a dry Irish stout is probably not the best place to look. A well made stout can have a nice touch of malt but the profile of the beer just doesn't lean in that direction. As to the recipe your ingredients look good although I would subtract a 1/2 lb of flaked barley and add 1/2 lb of pale malt but that isn't going to make a drastic flavor difference. Make sure your thermometer is accurate, that you are getting a good crush on the milled grain and that your water profile is in line for the style. Beyond that I would take some of that UK pale malt and make a nice, rich bodied ESB for your malt kick.

sixtyten said:

Ok.. here is the data

Recipe

Dry Stout

batch size : 3.0 gallons
Est original gravity: 1.045
Est Final gravity: 1.013
Actual original gravity:1.035
Actual final gravity: 1.019

Grains and Yeast:
3lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) UK
1lbs .08 oz Flaked Barley
8.4 oz Roasted Barley
1.00 oz East Kent Goldings
1 package Irish Ale (White Labs)


Process:
I mashed in at around 155F for an hour and sparged with 168F water. I ended up with about 4 gallons of wort.

Boil time was 60min and ended up with 3 gallons after the boil.
Fermented for 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary.

Kegged and waited a week to try it and it tastes like carbonated flat/watery beer.

Thanks for all of your help!!

Click to expand...

most 5g batches run around 10-13# of grain total your 5.7 seems a little thin for a stout i'd try for closer to 6.5#total. also for a maltier profile try replacing the 1.5# of barley(a little much for the size of the beer) with .25-.5 barley and .5 20l crystal and maybe some dark munich or other type of lightly kilned malt. now with a final gravity of 1.019 you should have a very thick tasting brew however beersmith gave me est og1.042 fg1.011 so that tells me it might have not been done totally when kegged.


now as for your processes
how are you filtering, manifold/braid?
how do you sparge fly(continuos drain/fill), single batch(drain,fill,drain) or two equal batches(drain,fill,drain,fill,drain)?
stove top boil or outside burner?

You including this recipe gets me to think the issue might be more centered around ingredients/recipe formulation. You need to figure out what you're trying to add, and incorporate the appropriate ingredients.

In general adding malts that will contribute melanoidins will start you in a step in the right direction. Based on your recipe above (besides changing styles), I would up the base amount to try and hit an OG of at least 1.055, as well as introduce more non fermentables. For example, carapils will give a nicer, creamy mouthfeel, and layering with two types of crystal (say 20L and 60L) will give a nice malty characteristic.

and here is an answer to these questions..
"how are you filtering, manifold/braid?
how do you sparge fly(continuos drain/fill), single batch(drain,fill,drain) or two equal batches(drain,fill,drain,fill,drain)?
stove top boil or outside burner?"


I use a braid type filter to filter the mash, sparge fly, and I use an outside burner

I run my sparge water through a hose that lays in a colander(which sits on top of my rubbermaid cooler. The water drips through the colander onto the grains.

How long should this sparge process usually take? I think it took me 20 - 30min

sixtyten said:

and here is an answer to these questions..
"how are you filtering, manifold/braid?
how do you sparge fly(continuos drain/fill), single batch(drain,fill,drain) or two equal batches(drain,fill,drain,fill,drain)?
stove top boil or outside burner?"


I use a braid type filter to filter the mash, sparge fly, and I use an outside burner

I run my sparge water through a hose that lays in a colander(which sits on top of my rubbermaid cooler. The water drips through the colander onto the grains.

How long should this sparge process usually take? I think it took me 20 - 30min

Click to expand...

I think you may be leaving too much flavor behind in the mash. Slow your sparge rate down so that it takes at least 45 minutes. Also make sure that the incoming sparge water is distributed over the entire surface area of the mash. If that is a problem let the sparge water build up so that it is slightly higher than the top of the grainbed.

You can't fly sparge with a stainless braid. Well you can, but your efficiency should suck.

should I buy a false bottom?

Nope, you should batch sparge ;-)

Bobby_M said:

Nope, you should batch sparge ;-)

Click to expand...

+1

Thanks Bobby M, I scoped your video tutorial the night before my first AG (single infusion w/mashout, batch sparge, >80% efficiency). Thanks for the help!

sounds good.. next brew session, I will try batch sparging


I just want to say thanks to everyone's help. I will apply the changes in my next brew.

You guys are freakin awesome.

One day I hope to have the same amount of brew wisdom!