Got my first contest scores back

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amfukuda

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I sent two beers in a bock and a pilsner. My pilsner did ok I think with a 27 but they tore my bock apart. And now I kinda feel like a parent who put an ugly kid in a beauty contest. I knew they where going to judge them but dang
 
Hey,

Congrats on entering a competition. Take the comments and learn from them. Don't be so concerned with scores. There are a lot of threads on here about how some beers are scored differently by judges, like one gives it a 35 and another a 27. Just try to take what they say and improve. However, if you really like your beer then don't really worry about it.

All the best
 
Ya I'm taking it with a grain of salt and didn't expect to win or anything but I definitely didn't think my beer was " lifeless"
 
It happens. There's a lot of subjectivity to BJCP judging so don't take it too hard. It's better if you submit your beers to multiple events and heed the comments and advice of the most experienced (highest ranked) judges.

I once entered a beer in a local competition that got raked over the coals for being "out of style on many levels." It was a Belgian Dubbel made with smoked cranberry and some mulling spices thrown in. It brought a 22 and a 25 score respectively. I agree, it isn't exactly to style under the BJCP definition, but I entered that same beer into the Best Florida Beer Championships and it scored a 42 and a 44 from more experienced judges and made it to the mini-BOS round. The latter judges gave it high praise for flavor and originality and generally loved it.

Ultimately, if you really want to win competitions, you have to nail each style perfectly right down the middle of each BJCP definition for that particular style of beer. Do NOT deviate from the style or try to be creative and introduce anything new. If you do, you'll be called out on it and your beer will lose points. More experienced judges will give you some wiggle room, but it's the novice to semi-experienced judges that carry around the BJCP definitions in their pockets and make sure everything conforms to style right down the middle.

Save anything unique, experimental or creative for style 23: Specialty Beer.
 
Ya it seemed like they contradicted each other one guy said I had no head the other guy said it was perfect
 
It happens. There's a lot of subjectivity to BJCP judging so don't take it too hard. It's better if you submit your beers to multiple events and heed the comments and advice of the most experienced (highest ranked) judges.

I once entered a beer in a local competition that got raked over the coals for being "out of style on many levels." It was a Belgian Dubbel made with smoked cranberry and some mulling spices thrown in. It brought a 22 and a 25 score respectively. I agree, it isn't exactly to style under the BJCP definition, but I entered that same beer into the Best Florida Beer Championships and it scored a 42 and a 44 from more experienced judges and made it to the mini-BOS round. The latter judges gave it high praise for flavor and originality and generally loved it.

Ultimately, if you really want to win competitions, you have to nail each style perfectly right down the middle of each BJCP definition for that particular style of beer. Do NOT deviate from the style or try to be creative and introduce anything new. If you do, you'll be called out on it and your beer will lose points. More experienced judges will give you some wiggle room, but it's the novice to semi-experienced judges that carry around the BJCP definitions in their pockets and make sure everything conforms to style right down the middle.

Save anything unique, experimental or creative for style 23: Specialty Beer.

exact reason why I don't like comps.
 
It's kinda hard to read but these are my sheets
Please don't make me cry

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Both comments gave indications of possible chlorination in the water. The first one mentioned plastic, the second mentioned phenolic and medicinal, and even mentioned chlorine in the water. How do you treat your water? If you use a carbon filter is it possible that it's time to get a new one? These sheets might be a hard pill to swallow, but both had some similar comments.
 
I use we'll water so no calorie and I'm not sure where the plastic taste would come from any thoughts
 
Hmm, well, almost universally they're dinging you for the plastic-like off flavor and phenolic odor, which makes sense because it does go hand in hand. Provided you aren't using bleach to sanitize your equipment, phenols are usually the result of yeast stress and/or not spending enough time on the yeast cake. The areas i'd look at there are fermentation temperature and performing the diacetyl rest for one week after your FG reading stabilizes for 2-3 days. Just let it sit an extra week on the yeast and make sure the wort is fermenting in the proper temperature range (not just an ambient temperature). If the water is tap water with chlorine/chloramines, you'll need to boil it off prior to use or toss in a campden tablet to neutralize it, or just "build" your water from a reverse osmosis or distilled base. Yooper just posted a simplified water chemistry example that should work well for anyone.

Astringency usually comes from mashing your grains a little too warm, which is anything in excess of 170 degrees f. (76.6 c). Be very careful to only heat strike water to about 168 f. for simple mashes and keep a careful watch on calibrated thermometers if you do step-mashing. If you do specialty grains with extracts, just soak the grains at 152 f. for 45 minutes and don't be overly concerned if the temperature dips into the high 140's. The extracts are going to provide the bulk of your fermentables in this case and the specialty grains just provide color, body and some flavor.

As far as boosting your "body," make sure you add a small amount of munich malt, vienna malt, biscuit malt, victory malt or maris otter malt. These are some examples of rich bready flavored malts that add so much necessary backbone to lighter beer styles.
 
That makes a lot of since. These were my first two all grain batches so I wasn't shooting for the moon. Any idea where the plastic taste comes from
 
These are my entry forms. I don't know if that will help ya figure out where I went wrong or not but I'd sure like and help

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It's so easy to have a knee-jerk reaction to negative scoresheets, but really they're doing you a huge favor. Those sheets look like they give good feedback -- exactly what you want in a competition. They consistently called out a phenolic off-flavor issue. I'm guessing you have a bit of a wild yeast problem in your brewery. Unless you're using a POF positive strain of yeast (like a Weizen or Belgian strain), the only way you're getting those flavors is either through chlorine issues (are you using bleach in your brewhouse?) or a wild yeast issue. This issues noted were consistent between beers. This is extremely valuable feedback.
 
I don't use bleach but I do brew outside is it possible that in getting wild yeast in my wort from it being outside
 
I don't use bleach but I do brew outside is it possible that in getting wild yeast in my wort from it being outside

What's the normal lag time? Are you chilling it quickly to close to pitching temps? Are you reusing yeast or were they both fresh pitches of yeast?

I was having a similar issue with only chilling to like 100F and letting it sit in the carboy overnight and then pitching reused yeast.
 
Both had fresh yeast and my chiller gets it down to pitching temp in about twenty minutes
 
This is the reason I haven't entered any contests yet. Take my advice for what it is. My beers have gotten better since I started making Yeast starters. They have gotten even better since I built a stir plate. They have gotten even better since I started oxygenating. That being said you still need to sort out your water. The only way to know what is in your water is to have it tested. You could try a batch using spring water. I actually get the water for my beer from a local spring. It's been working out for me. I hope that helps.
 
You actually have some solid feedback from your two entries. Both sets of judges for both beers noted phenols in the aroma and flavor and astringency. Phenols can be the result of a few different things, but your judges specifically noted spicy and "horse radish-like". Additionally they called levels of acetyladehyde and fruity esters. To me, without the beer in front me, sounds like you are having some issues with fermentation, specifically your fermentation temperatures.

There are lots of ways to react to poor scores in a competition, and believe me I was very guilty of "ugly-baby" syndrome as a new brewer, but the best way is to take a good look at what the judges are telling you about your beer. This is after all why you paid to enter a BJCP competition. Take the criticism constructively and try to address it before your next brew. How are you controlling your temperatures? Are you pitching enough yeast - looking at your recipes you're clearly not.

As for recipes, I have a few observations and questions:

- Bohemian Pilsner / Classic American Pilsner
1) First of all, there is a clear discrepancy here as your recipe says Classic American Pilsner, but the scoresheets say Bohemian Pilsner. I suspect your beer was judged in the wrong sub-category.
2) What yeast did you use? My screen resolution isn't the best, but it looks like a dry yeast. Safale?
3) Did you ferment this with an ale yeast because your fermentation temperatures (67 F in primary for 14 days and 67 F in secondary for 7 days) is unusual. If this was a lager yeast it would greatly explain why you have fermentation flaws in your beer.
4) I see no mention of any lagering period.
5) Your final gravity, 1.004, is very low for a Classic American Pilsner. You should be in the 1.010 - 1.015 range. That's very dry and probably explains a good deal of the astringency comments.

-Bock
1) My screen resolution isn't the best, but is your SG really 1.083? The BJCP SG range for Traditional bock is 1.064 - 1.072.
2) Your FG is way too high for this category. You finished at 1.030 but for this beer you should be in the 1.013 - 1.019 range.
3) One vial of liquid yeast!? You really need to make a starter with liquid yeast especially with a lager. This would explain the under-attenuation.
4) Your fermentation temps seem to be within the normal range for this strain, but again I see no mention of lagering.

My recommendations (take them as you will):
1) You need to start making yeast starters if you're using liquid yeast and especially with a high gravity lager. This is really very important.
2) I'm not sure what strain of yeast you used in your Pilsner, but if it was a lager you definitely fermented too hot.
3) I see no mention of lagering on your recipe sheets. I'm hopeful that you did so, but if not, lagering is a critical step here.
4) Your Pilsner finished very dry and your bock was under-attenuated. I think you have some fermentation problems that could easily be addressed for your next beer.

Everyone has had a poor competition score at least once. I proudly sent off my first pale ale only to receive a 11 in the mail. It's what you do with these comments that counts. You can crumple them up and tell yourself that they don't know what they're doing, which I always find very tempting, or you can accept that maybe you can make some improvements. I've found that friends and family are not reliable when asking for an unbiased opinion on my beer.

Also - if you have the opportunity consider stewarding at a local competition. It would be very helpful and informative for you. You can learn a lot from the judges and you can taste all the beer, both good and bad, to help you pick up on any flaws at home.
 
I'm lookin at it as an learning experience. Take what Iv got and make it better next time. How do you go about getting water tested.
 
ward labs is great. cheap and fast. I have sent many samples in to them.

Lots of good advice above - Darwin 18 gave you a bunch of good recommendations.
 
You guys have been a great help I'm goin to make myself a list of everything y'all said and try to work out a fix for everything
 
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