Cigar City Jai Alai Clone

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

bulldogbrewhaus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2011
Messages
130
Reaction score
23
Location
Afton
Greetings fellow brewers, I have been working on a recipe for something similar to Cigar City-Jai Alai. Please be critical and help me get it close to the real thing. Cheers.

Jai Alai stats per CCB website: ABV:7.5% IBU:70 OG:18 SRM:10

Grain Bill
2 Row-10lbs 12oz
Munich-1lb
Victory-1lb
20l-1lb

Hop Schedule (This is straight from Wayne Wambles via email from another thread)
FWH
Ahtanum-.5oz
Columbus-.5oz

Bittering
Ahtanum-.5oz
Amarillo-.5oz
Columbus-.5oz

Flavor
Cascade-1.25
Centennial-1.25
Columbus-1.25

Aroma
Ahtanum-1oz
Amarillo-1oz
Cascade-1oz

Dry
Simcoe-2oz

Yeast
Dennys Fav 50 or Cali Ale (not too sure about the yeast)


Stats per old hopville software: ABV:7.5% IBU:72.5 SRM:10

Notes: I used the 15 minute mark for the "flavor" hop additions, I used flame out for the "aroma" hop additions. The specialty malts are just my guess based on the taste I get from it. I pretty much always use a whirfloc tablet so I left that out.

Here is a link to the other thread. Perhaps one of the mods could merge them for me as I feel it belongs in the Recipes forum.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/cigar-city-jai-alai-281892/
 
Thanks for posting this. It's one of my favorite IPAs. I'd like to try this after I make all the other beers I have planned. And I have to figure out how to FWH with BIAB.
 
I'm going to leave that one there. It only contains a bare recipe outline, unlike your attempt here. Good luck, can't wait to hear the taste results.

Ok thanks. It looks like it will take about 12oz of hops to make this! So it might be a couple weeks before I can get ahold to all of them. I will keep updating as we go along. Hopefully more of the Florida crowd will chime in soon. Cheers.
 
Wayne Wambles gives out the recipe at the end of the interview:

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/584

Really good interview. Thanks for sharing. I have all the info on the Jai Alai recipe and I will try to format it for everyone and re-post. I am fairly shocked at how close my hop schedule was, we all get lucky once in a while I suppose haha.
 
And I have to figure out how to FWH with BIAB.

I would add the fwh as soon as you pul the bag and let them steep for a while before heating to boil to simulate the tim runoff takes, 20 minutes or more I WOULD GUESS.
 
Grain Bill
Canadian 2-row-15.25
Munich I-12.5oz
60L-12.5oz
Victory-.25oz

Hop Schedule

FWH
Ahtanum-.5oz
Columbus-.5oz

Bittering-60 min
Ahtanum-.657oz
Amarillo-1.115oz
Columbus-.66oz

Flavor-15 min
Cascade-.69oz
Centennial-.625oz
Columbus-.715oz

Aroma-6 min
Ahtanum-.69oz
Amarillo-.57oz
Cascade-.94oz

Dry
Simcoe-2-3oz

Yeast
Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley or Wyeast 1968 London ESB

1 Whirfloc Tablet

Mash @ 150

Ferment @ 65-66

Notes:I have seen evidence of both Wyeast 1275 and 1968 being used by CCB, so take your pick. Dry hop for 14 days, bring temp down 10 deg each day until you reach 34 deg. The IBU's read a little high here but Wayne recommends using .5oz of both Ahtanum and Columbus for FWH. A slight variation on this would be to add Spanish Cedar to the secondary. Which ironically is neither spanish nor a cedar (South American/Mahogany). It comes as a spiral, Wayne recommends a 12-15 inch spiral for a 5gal batch.

This should be very close. The info here is taken straight from Wayne's interview posted above. Calculations are from the old hopville software.

Hopville Stats- ABV:7.5% IBU:78.9 SRM:11 OG:18.2 Plato

Jai Alai stats per CCB website- ABV:7.5% IBU:70 SRM:10 OG:18

Please leave some feedback if anyone decides to give this a go. Cheers.
 
If anyone wants to try plugging this into different software it would be cool to compare. Here are the raw numbers.

90% Canadian 2-row
4.8%-Munich I
4.8%-60L
.4%-Victory

FWH
Ahtanum
Columbus
Wayne recommends .5oz of these

60 min
Amarillo-18 IBU
Ahtanum-10.6 IBU
Columbus-10.7 IBU

15 min
Cascade-5.5 IBU
Columbus-5.7 IBU
Centennial-5 IBU

6 min
Cascade-3 IBU
Amarillo-1.8 IBU
Ahtanum-2.2 IBU

Dry
Simcoe
Wayne recommends 2-3oz
 
Can anyone help update this by changing the original post to show the updates in post #8? I want to help avoid confusion and show progress. Thanks and cheers.
 
Also the Victory malt should be a .25 pound not ounce. Sorry for the typo. I plan to tackle this one in the next week or two. Will post updates and hopefully pics. Cheers.
 
I am going to the Clearwater races at the end of next month. I have been to Cigar City before, but going to brew this beer to see how close I can get. I brewed this before, always a great beer.
 
Noob to all grain question. Why is it when I punch these ingredients into just about any calculator I get IBU of double what you guys get. ~145 compared to everyone's ~70 IBU?

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured it out!
 
Just pitched my yeast on this bad boy. The one change I made - listening to the brewing network interview, Wayne said he calculates his aroma additions at 6 minutes - not necessarily adds them at 6 minutes. So I added them at knockout instead. I steeped them hot for 20 minutes, because he's obviously trying to get some IBU's out of them by using the 6 minute calc.

Then I cooled to 150 degrees, and I also added 0.5 oz of Antanium (Sp?) and 0.3 centennial, to use up some leftovers. I steeped those for another 20 minutes at 150 - 120, then cooled to 70 and pitched. Temp controller set to 66.

The one Jai Alai I've had, I was blown away by. Somehow my buddy here in Denver got a 6'er. Still not sure how he got it. Hopefully mine turns out close!
 
Goin to be in Tampa this weekend. Will be visiting Cigar city. Picking up a couple different things. Going to brew this clone next.
 
I'll second the 1968. I was at the brewery recently and the "whiteboard log" had the following four yeasts listed:

3711
1968
2112
2206

Also Wayne has shares via email that he does his dryhopping in the mid-50's now, not ice cold like the BN interview states.

Cheers!
 
such good beer, have the grains setting next to me right now and fresh from Tampa too.
 
I put the recipe into BeerSmith 2, all grain pot and cooler with a batch size of 5 gallons, however I get the following stats:
121.4 IBU --this is much higher
9.9 SRM
9.8 ABV -- this is much higher

Any thoughts? Grain bill ratios all match. Could be that the default alpha's for the hops are different, explaining the IBU's but the ABV should be closer.
 
Yeah, it's most important that you aim for actual IBU numbers as calculated in the recipe, and the grain ratios.
 
I brewed this on 9/25/13 and kegged on 10/14/13 using recipe below. It turned out very good but it doesn't taste/smell like Jai Alai. It isn't nearly as hop forward as the real thing and I did a side by side comparison. Color was accurate.

Jai Alai
O.G. T.G. ABV% IBU SRM
1.074 1.017 7.5 70.1 10
Ingredients for 5.5 gallon batch
13 lbs 8oz American 2 row
1 lb C60
1 lb Munich light 10L
1.6 oz Victory Malt
.5 oz Ahtanum First Wort
.5 oz Columbus First Wort
.5 oz Ahtanum 60 min
.5 oz Amarillo 60 min
.25 oz Columbus 60 min
.25 oz Cascade 15 min
.25 oz Centennial 15 min
.25 oz Columbus 15 min
.25 oz Ahtanum 6 min
.25 oz Amarillo 6 min
.25 oz Cascade 6 min
2 oz Simcoe Dry Hop 14 Days

Wyeast 1968 ESB
 
I brewed this on 9/25/13 and kegged on 10/14/13 using recipe below. It turned out very good but it doesn't taste/smell like Jai Alai. It isn't nearly as hop forward as the real thing and I did a side by side comparison. Color was accurate.

Jai Alai
O.G. T.G. ABV% IBU SRM
1.074 1.017 7.5 70.1 10
Ingredients for 5.5 gallon batch
13 lbs 8oz American 2 row
1 lb C60
1 lb Munich light 10L
1.6 oz Victory Malt
.5 oz Ahtanum First Wort
.5 oz Columbus First Wort
.5 oz Ahtanum 60 min
.5 oz Amarillo 60 min
.25 oz Columbus 60 min
.25 oz Cascade 15 min
.25 oz Centennial 15 min
.25 oz Columbus 15 min
.25 oz Ahtanum 6 min
.25 oz Amarillo 6 min
.25 oz Cascade 6 min
2 oz Simcoe Dry Hop 14 Days

Wyeast 1968 ESB

What would you do differently next time? I'm brewing this in a few weeks.
 
One thing that I'll do next time is increase the amount of aroma addtions to .5oz or .75 oz and do it at flame out rather than 6 min. I'm not certain if I need to reduce the amount of bittering hops and increase the flavor hop amounts but I'm only going to change one thing at a time.
 
just kegged this beer last night, smells great as always. I hand to sub in some Cirta, but I think it will turn out about the same, was short on Columbus and Centennial.
 
One thing that I'll do next time is increase the amount of aroma addtions to .5oz or .75 oz and do it at flame out rather than 6 min. I'm not certain if I need to reduce the amount of bittering hops and increase the flavor hop amounts but I'm only going to change one thing at a time.


If you listen to the original CYBI interview, Wayne says he only CALCULATES his aroma additions at 6 minutes. Meaning he adds them at knockout, but CALCULATES them as a 6 minute addition to figure out how much bitterness they add.
 
Brewed a version of this about 8 weeks a go in preparation for my brother comming home this weekend. He moved to Tampa from Cincinnati last year. He will be bringing a case of the real deal with him. Ill let you know what the consciences is this up coming weekend. Or a may sneek a taste tonight.
 
Subscribed. I love jai alai, especially in b the Florida heat. Very interested in your side by side tasting notes. This will be a good one for me when it's not -20 outside!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app
 
I'm thinking of giving this a shot on Wednesday, as Jai Alai has become my new favorite IPA. I'll be using us-05 instead of wyeast since I have some in the fridge. Also planning on adding my flavor additions at 5 minutes, then doing a 45 minute hopstand @ ~175F with 1oz each of cascade, ahtanum, and amarillo. I'll be sure to post results.
 
Just pitched my yeast on this bad boy. The one change I made - listening to the brewing network interview, Wayne said he calculates his aroma additions at 6 minutes - not necessarily adds them at 6 minutes. So I added them at knockout instead. I steeped them hot for 20 minutes, because he's obviously trying to get some IBU's out of them by using the 6 minute calc.

Then I cooled to 150 degrees, and I also added 0.5 oz of Antanium (Sp?) and 0.3 centennial, to use up some leftovers. I steeped those for another 20 minutes at 150 - 120, then cooled to 70 and pitched. Temp controller set to 66.

The one Jai Alai I've had, I was blown away by. Somehow my buddy here in Denver got a 6'er. Still not sure how he got it. Hopefully mine turns out close!

tgmartin, how did this turn out for you? Similar to the real thing?
Anyone else who's made it have any updates?
 
tgmartin, how did this turn out for you? Similar to the real thing?
Anyone else who's made it have any updates?

It was damn near identical. I couldn't get canadian 2-row, so my grain bill was a tad different, which you could taste very slightly, but otherwise they were spot on.
 
Back
Top