Keg Force Carbing Methods Illustrated

Williams 728
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Bobby_M said:
No, I really meant serving line. There's something about having easy access to the contents of the keg (like the faucet) that makes a brewer regularly "test it out" every day during the carbonation process. You figure, it's just an ounce or two. Bam.. two weeks later the keg is light.
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Ok well I'm brand new to this as well so here's my question. I'm way more interested in this beer tasting right than anything so I want to condition properly. I've seen how bottles can go from good to great in a matter of days. So, is it the same thing in a keg? If I force carb a little early (just because I'm dying to try this all out), will my beer continue to condition the way it should with time? Specifically, if my beer has been kegged at room temp (60) for a week and I want to try to accelerate the process and burst it, will it continue to get better if I let it go at serving psi after that? Should I be refrigerating it to absorb more CO2 this whole time? This whole waiting period is just like I bought myself the best Christmas present in the world, and I refuse to let myself look in the box just one little time!

Of course I do believe in the beer gremlins and their sneaky little underhanded ways. So, I promise myself to taste a couple of times and then let it go to fruition. I wouldn't lie to myself, now would I? ;)
 
Yes, the beer does continue to get better while it's cold and carbed. There's a period shortly after burst carbing where it's sharp from the carbonic acid that is produced. It seems to dissipate in 1-2 weeks.
 
OK, so, another scenario-

I have two homebrews, both have 10ft lines. I was gonna "set and forget" at 12psi, serve at 12psi.

Now, i have a 3rd tap, which I'm gonna run a micro out of. I don't have 2 regs, so it will also be at 12psi. The issue is, (for some reason) that tap has only a 5ft (if that, probably closer to 4) line. Will I get nothing but foam out of that line?
 
I have a quick carb question. I have a fridge out in my garage (unheated) and right now temps outside are about 20F...my fridge as a thermometer in it and the temp inside the fridge goes from about 32F to 34F where my kegs are. I just kegged a BLackberry blonde ale..what pressure and for how long should I carb this keg at those temps??

Dan
 
my serving pressure is 10psi at about 42F, i usually boost (and have missed twice and been pissed) so i tired just letting it sit and forget about it, i came back a little under 2 weeks later and it was barely even carbed... i have no idea why when it seems everyone else says it works :(. I boosted it up to 30 for 24 hours or so and all was better.
 
flyweed said:
I have a quick carb question. I have a fridge out in my garage (unheated) and right now temps outside are about 20F...my fridge as a thermometer in it and the temp inside the fridge goes from about 32F to 34F where my kegs are. I just kegged a BLackberry blonde ale..what pressure and for how long should I carb this keg at those temps??

Dan
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7-8psi for 2 weeks should get you around 2.4 volumes of CO2 which is pretty typical of American styles.
 
flyerwire said:
my serving pressure is 10psi at about 42F, i usually boost (and have missed twice and been pissed) so i tired just letting it sit and forget about it, i came back a little under 2 weeks later and it was barely even carbed... i have no idea why when it seems everyone else says it works :(. I boosted it up to 30 for 24 hours or so and all was better.
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Well, a little under 2 weeks isn't quite enough to hit the target volumes.
10psi at 42F will get you to 2.2 volumes at full equilibrium which takes 2-3 weeks. At 12 days (assumption), it might only be at 1.7 volumes or something and you might not consider that carbed enough.

Just to clarify, you did keep the gas connected the whole time right?
 
Bobby_M said:
Well, a little under 2 weeks isn't quite enough to hit the target volumes.
10psi at 42F will get you to 2.2 volumes at full equilibrium which takes 2-3 weeks. At 12 days (assumption), it might only be at 1.7 volumes or something and you might not consider that carbed enough.

Just to clarify, you did keep the gas connected the whole time right?
Click to expand...

yes i did and 12 days is probably a good guess. I guess i needed to let it go another week or so. It's not like i was in a hurry to drink it, its still sitting and will be for another week or two, just thought it was 2 weeks and gave up. I have a fresh keg of a grog clone that i'll let sit for 3 weeks.
 
flyerwire said:
my serving pressure is 10psi at about 42F, i usually boost (and have missed twice and been pissed) so i tired just letting it sit and forget about it, i came back a little under 2 weeks later and it was barely even carbed... i have no idea why when it seems everyone else says it works :(. I boosted it up to 30 for 24 hours or so and all was better.
Click to expand...

Well, a little under 2 weeks isn't quite enough to hit the target volumes.
10psi at 42F will get you to 2.2 volumes at full equilibrium which takes 2-3 weeks. At 12 days (assumption), it might only be at 1.7 volumes or something and you might not consider that carbed enough.

Just to clarify, you did keep the gas connected the whole time right?
 
Thanks very much for the chart - very nice.

I let my beer in the brite tank for 4+ weeks at 34 F (last batch was 7 weeks - had to wait on CO2)

Beer is very cold when kegged, and I pressure up to 30 psi for 24 hours.

Back off pressure, blow down keg, then set to 12 psi. I get good results within 7 days.

But, I do see a slight improvement after 2+ weeks.

If I'm not in a rush (need in 7 days or so) I use the "sane" method. Set to maintenance pressure and just let sit for a few weeks.

NOTE: Just re-read your post about the 24 hour over-pressuring. Yep, it does work rather nicely. Shook a few times and was not wild about the results - kind of a crap shoot.
 
Kegging newb...I just kegged my first beer today, and I am doing the set and forget method. After a week or so, do I shut off the gas and turn on when serving, or do I leave it on at all times?

Also, what is the serving psi?
 
Thanks for this thread. I am wondering if Bobby, or anyone, can critique my method (general method).

I am awaiting a converted sanke keg conical from synergymetalworkinglcom. It has ball lock QDs on the 4" TC on top and a 1.5" TC bottom dump (yay!.. I will be posting pics when it arrives). This is what I would like to do. Please tell me if this doesn't sound right (I know there isn't one right way, but..). I am trying to set things up so that it is easy and I don't have to fiddle too much. I also will be using a converted upright freezer for a ferm chamber so will have great control over temps.

1)Primary and Secondary in the one vessel at appropriate temp
2)Turn the chamber down and Cold crash to 31 deg.-ish for 48 hrs
3)After the first 24, Boost carb @ 30 PSI-ish (haven't done the calculations, but generally...)
4)Purge, then rack to 3 cornies as full as possible
5)Pressurize to desired serving pressure (or a little more maybe? dunno..)
6)Age in basement for at least 2 weeks (~60 deg) or however long it takes to make a spot in my keezer:cross:
7)Take from basement and put in keezer and pressurize to serving pressure
8)Serve as soon as it's cold

My goal is to have the kegs carbonated at serving pressure as soon as possible after removing from aging in the basement. I don't think I can stand it if I have to wait a weeks time after it's in my keezer to serve properly equalized beer.

Anyone think this is non-kosher? Will the carb come out of the beer while it sits in the basement or will it stay dissolved? Will this differ if the keg isn't as full as it can be with beer and only like 3/4 full (like say in that third corny....should put that one in my keezer straight away)?

From my experience, kegs that come off the truck from a distributor aren't always necessarily @ 45 degrees (depends on the season), but it doesn't take that long for them to be served and equalized.

Thanks!
 
I just kegged my first time yesterday using the corn sugar priming method. Is force carb preferred/easier? What are the advantages of either method?
 
Bobby_M said:
The advantage to force carbing is that you can really let the beer clear in primary/secondary via cold crashing and essentially get sediment free beer.
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Cold crashing? I guess the sediment you refer to is from the yeast "eating" the sugar then dying and falling to the bottom, correct? Makes sense then for a clear beer to use this method, next time.
 
I didn't know what you meant by cold crashing but after some digging I found some useful info in another thread. After reading that and this one, force carbing is definitly the way I'll go now. Thanks for the info.:mug:
 
Pretty new to this - For the methods you are explaining the Co2 line is hooked up to the IN, correct? I have seen methods where you hook it up to the OUT, but I feel like you are asking for a sticky mess. Figured I would ask to clarify.
 
Correct. There's only a slight decrease in absorption time to be had by attaching the gas to the bev out side because the bubble size coming up from the dip tube will be pretty large so it doesn't add much gas to beer surface area. There are other methods and tricks involving diffusion stones but I don't perceive a lot of value there.
 
Thanks Bobby_M! Another first time force carber using the illustrated method!

I racked from primary (66 deg) to the keg around lunch time 5 days ago. Put it in the fridge (38 deg) with 25 to 30 psi. The following day in the evening release the pressure and set reg 12 to 15 psi. Sampled just now due to impatience and very close to full carbonation!

THANKS! :mug:

Note: I set the reg a little low to start with because it sometimes creeps up on me.
 
Can you speed up carbonation times by setting your regulator to desired serving/maintenance levels and shaking/rolling the keg? Or is that a terribly bad idea (ala setting to 30 and rolling)?
 
In my early days, I shook 34 F beer at 12 psi until no more CO2 was hissing into the beer.

I have also made 3 day beer - on a dare - tasted not too good, and was a kit to boot (would never do something that nasty to all grain)

I like the cold beer at 30 psi for 24 hours, blow down, then pressure up to 12 psi. Within 5-7 days, it's good.

And, like the author of this thread recommends, let it sit for around a week before serving.
 
Excellent thread, just looking for some advice from the kegmasters.

I kegged a German Kölsch on the 5th, with the intent of carbonating naturally (1/3 cup of corn sugar). My keezer build was finished yesterday, so I figured I'd put everything in and see have me some beer on tap. Only there was pretty much no carbonation at all (and a ton of sediment, on my nth glass even). I know a lot of stuff got stirred up in the move of the keg up the stairs, but it sat for a good 6 hours before I tried pouring anything.

Generally my bottles are fully cabonated in 8-10 days, and the internets seem to have indicated I could expect similar even from a corny keg given about a 72°F closet. The keezer is at 42°F, I'm going to go ahead and guess there won't be any more natural carbonation happening. A handy link I snagged from this very thread seems to say that if I want 2.5vol CO2 in my beer I should have my regulator at 13.3psi and let it hang out there (per the start of this thread anyway) for a few weeks until it reaches equilibrium.

What I'm not too sure about is the serving pressure. Do I leave things at ~13psi to serve, or vent the gauge and keep 5psi on things? If I do that, won't I end up with less headspace pressure than I have dissolved gas and end up with a new eq pressure somewhere less than the target carbonation above? I've seen talk of I.D. of beer lines, and length - so the setup I bought (kegcowboy) has 6' lines of 3/16" I.D. Don't know if that's a problem or not. Faucets are Perlick 525SS, if that matters or not.

If what I'm doing sounds sane/reasonable/unlikely to cause a waste of beer, let me know. If it doesn't, let me know what I should be doing and I'll do it. Thanks!
 
It's very possible that you didn't have a perfect seal on the keg while the yeast were dealing with the priming sugar.

If the carbonation pressure on the chart is 13psi, that's what you should leave it at even during serving. With 6' of line, the pour may be a little fast but it shouldn't be too bad.
 
Hrm, I put a little soapy water on top of the keg when I sealed everything up and hit it with the CO2 tank to make sure everything was sealed and didn't get any bubbles. Kinda what I do when I run over a nail on my motorcycle and end up having to plug the tire. I sat there and watched it for a good while too, but I guess it's certainly possible something moved while I was moving the keg from the kitchen to the closet.

I'll leave the pressure where it's at then, and hopefully in a few weeks I have something resembling proper carbonation and a tasty (well, tastier) beer.

Thanks man. This thread should be nominated for a Nobel Prize in Beerology or something.
 
I have a friend who has been using a CO2 charger to "force carb" his beer for the past several years. He uses no priming sugars. He racks the beer into the keg. Seals it, puts it on its side, and blasts one cylinder into the OUT on the keg through the beer. He then uses another one--this time on the IN side--to pressurize the keg. He says then after 24hrs he gives it more. I've had his beer, and never known it to be flat. Although, like others have mentioned, it does taste better after a week or two.

I've never kegged but figured I'd try it on my next batch after recently getting a freebie fridge. I went to the LHBS yesterday to get a charger and picnic tap. My friend's method came up in my conversation with the guy at the shop. He insisted it wouldn't work without using a natural sugar primer, and said the charger should only be used for dispensing. He then told me how to force carb with a regular 5# cylinder setup using the methods previously discussed in this thread.

So my question is, aside from having the ability to regulate and measure the gas--obviously the ideal situation particularly for consistency--what's difference if the gas comes from a 5# cylinder or a charger? Is it just the ability for the cylinder to provide continuous consistent pressure as opposed to blasts from a charger? Is sugar priming my best option if I'm not going to lay out the coin for a cylinder/regulator setup right away?
 
Force carbing is a lot cleaner than "bottle conditioning" in a keg.

I'm guessing a charger is the small CO2 thingies - would take a ton of them to force carb a 5 gallon keg.

Big benefit to a 5# CO2 cylinder is the convenience.
 
Nope, both. Which is what started my conversation with my LHBS about using a charger for that purpose vs. having to use a priming sugar vs. using a cylinder & regulator.
 
Of course the chargers will work to force carb. It's just a very imprecise and expensive way to do it.

My estimate is that it would take two 16g carts initially to carb, then 3 to dispense and you'd be rollercoastering on the carb level the whole time.

It would take 141 16gram cartridges to equal the same amount of gas as a 5lb CO2 tank.

That's $141 and you could get a 5lb tank, regulator, and your first 5 fills for that much.

Even if you later decided to get out of the hobby after 2 years, you have 75% resale value on the tank/reg and a bin full of empty cartridges the other way.
 
Bobby_M said:
Of course the chargers will work to force carb. It's just a very imprecise and expensive way to do it.

My estimate is that it would take two 16g carts initially to carb, then 3 to dispense and you'd be rollercoastering on the carb level the whole time.

It would take 141 16gram cartridges to equal the same amount of gas as a 5lb CO2 tank.

That's $141 and you could get a 5lb tank, regulator, and your first 5 fills for that much.

Even if you later decided to get out of the hobby after 2 years, you have 75% resale value on the tank/reg and a bin full of empty cartridges the other way.
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Excellent points.

One more - get at least 2 CO2 cylinders - you'll always have CO2

If you get the high and low pressure guages, don't trust the HP - will only go low when you're almost empty.

Best way is to weigh the cylinder - think full they are 12.50 pounds (7.50 is the weight of the cylinder)
 
Bobby_M said:
Of course the chargers will work to force carb. It's just a very imprecise and expensive way to do it.
Click to expand...

That's what I had thought.

Bobby_M said:
My estimate is that it would take two 16g carts initially to carb, then 3 to dispense.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what he had told me.

Bobby_M said:
It would take 141 16gram cartridges to equal the same amount of gas as a 5lb CO2 tank. That's $141 and you could get a 5lb tank, regulator, and your first 5 fills for that much.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I can get 40 carts for about $30. At 5 per keg, that's about $3.75 per keg, or 8 kegs per $30. I agree with your point though that in the long-run it's more expensive for a less stable result.

Bobby_M said:
Even if you later decided to get out of the hobby after 2 years, you have 75% resale value on the tank/reg and a bin full of empty cartridges the other way.
Click to expand...

A really good point, considering the cylinder and regulator pretty much maintain their value. Cost/value factor aside though, what was making me scratch my head was the LHBS saying that simply using a charger vs tank setup wouldn't work. Roller coaster effect aside, it will work. It's just not ideal. Thanks for your input.
 
I totally messed this up with my new kegging system. One of the sites I had read when I initially kegged my beer said that 48 hours at serving pressure would carb the beer perfectly, and was referred to as the "patient method" on this site: http://www.homebrew.com/articles/article12018101.shtml

I pulled off a very flat, although tasty, beer this evening. I've kicked it up to 30 psi for now. Would the shake the hell out of it method give me a drinkable beer by sometime tonight? or should I forget about drinking this by the weekend like I'd hoped :(
DSCN2801.jpg
 
Bobby_M said:
It's very possible that you didn't have a perfect seal on the keg while the yeast were dealing with the priming sugar.

If the carbonation pressure on the chart is 13psi, that's what you should leave it at even during serving. With 6' of line, the pour may be a little fast but it shouldn't be too bad.
Click to expand...

update.. the pressure release thing in the lids leak on both kegs. gonna have to replace those. doh.
 
Yeah, I can barely hear (too much artillery/mortars/rockets blowing up around me for a while) - but I pulled the keg out after another no-carbonation-worth-mentioning pull from the tap and.... sure enough faint hiss from the pressure release dealio. Checked the empty keg - it does the same thing. It takes a real long time for all the pressure to leak down, but it's definitely leaking, and that definitely isn't good for carbonation.
 

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