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JeffoC6

JeffoC6

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I just tasted my recent IPA. I hopped the hell out of it, used distilled water with a little bit of calcium chloride added (thanks Yooper!), was an absolute freak about santitation, have a temperature controlled fermentation chamber, that I kept at 62 degrees (US-05) the entire duration of fermentation, and at bottling, used distilled water to mix my priming sugar with. I'm STILL getting a weird off flavor. See below for the explination of this flavor. Why is this happening to me? I'm using distilled water! :(

I haven't brewed 1 single batch of homebrew that made me say "wow" since I started this hobby over a year ago. I'm about to give up...

"My homebrew tastes like I'm burping vinyl tubing and plastic bags" Caused by Chlorophenol

What might have happened?
Using bleach to clean your brewing equipment or having highly chlorinated tap water where you live is most likely the culprate for homebrew with a 'plasticy' finish..particularly noticeable when you burp.

Preventative steps / options:
1) Avoid chlorinated water by using distilled water from your local grocer
2) Pre-treat chlorinated tap water by boiling for 15-20 minutes then cooling. This will evaporate chlorine and remove excess amounts from the water.
3) Pre-treat water with a Campden Tablet (potassium metabisulfite). The Campden tablets act as a catalyst for Chlorophenol removal.
 
If indeed it is excess chlorine causing your off flavors, the simplest route would be to fill your liquor tank with tap water and let it sit at least 24 hours, uncovered for the chlorine to evaporate.

(Think - prepping an aquarium for fish) :p
 
BierMuncher said:
If indeed it is excess chlorine causing your off flavors, the simplest route would be to fill your liquor tank with tap water and let it sit at least 24 hours, uncovered for the chlorine to evaporate.

(Think - prepping an aquarium for fish) :p
Click to expand...

So there's chlorine in distilled water?
 
JeffoC6 said:
So there's chlorine in distilled water?
Click to expand...

You will need to detail the hardware involved. Specify the source of each hardware item. It is clearly not process. The source is coming from some hardware feature that you have acquired.
 
BierMuncher said:
If indeed it is excess chlorine causing your off flavors, the simplest route would be to fill your liquor tank with tap water and let it sit at least 24 hours, uncovered for the chlorine to evaporate.

(Think - prepping an aquarium for fish) :p
Click to expand...


Yes, aged water. I let it sit out for weeks on end, I have fish too, so they get some of it..........
 
Another cause of phenolic flavor can be infection. Was this fresh yeast, or a reused yeast?

The process looks great, with no tap water used. Unless it's being used for cleaning of equipment or rinsing, I don't see how any chlorinated water could make it into this process.
 
Do you clean/sanitize with bleach?

Do you have any plastic equipment? Is it possible some of it's not heat-rated or is otherwise deficient in such a way that it's leaching into the beer?

What about the bottles -- glass or plastic? And, what products and processes do you use to clean and sanitize them?

Does the plastic flavor show up in hydrometer samples before pitching or bottling, or only after the bottles have sat a while?
 
To answer some questions here:

I'm doing 1 gallon AG batches

My "hardware" is 1 gallon glass carboys, airlocks, blowoff tubes, auto-siphons, bottling wands, hydrometers, hydrometer test tubes, turkey basters, etc.

The yeast is always fresh. I buy it about 3-5 days before brewing, and the production dates on the yeast are always current.

The only time I use tap water is when I clean my equipment. After I get done brewing/bottling/or taking hydrometer samples, I wash everything in hot tap water and unscented dish soap. I rinse to the high holy heavens making sure there is no residue (soap) left behind. Further, when I use the equipment next, I always rinse again and then sanitize everything by letting it soak in starsan and distilled water. This is the ONLY time I use tap water.

I do not use bleach...Ever.

Basically all of my equipment is plastic except for my 1-gallon glass carboys, hydrometer, and thermometer. So my auto-siphon, bottling wand, turkey baster (to take samples), hydrometer test tubes, carboy caps, and blowoff tubes are all plastic.

My bottles are glass. I re-use them and soak them in B-Brite for 2-3 hours and then rinse incredibly well and then sanitize them with star san right before using.

The plastic taste comes out only after bottling. My hydrometer samples and my leftover bit from bottling always taste really great. Nice hop bitterness, nice and smooth, etc...Then 3 weeks later and a few days in the fridge, BAM...Plastic burps and a weird tinge in the flavor of the beer.
 
JeffoC6 said:
To answer some questions here:

I'm doing 1 gallon AG batches

My "hardware" is 1 gallon glass carboys, airlocks, blowoff tubes, auto-siphons, bottling wands, hydrometers, hydrometer test tubes, turkey basters, etc.

The yeast is always fresh. I buy it about 3-5 days before brewing, and the production dates on the yeast are always current.

The only time I use tap water is when I clean my equipment. After I get done brewing/bottling/or taking hydrometer samples, I wash everything in hot tap water and unscented dish soap. I rinse to the high holy heavens making sure there is no residue (soap) left behind. Further, when I use the equipment next, I always rinse again and then sanitize everything by letting it soak in starsan and distilled water. This is the ONLY time I use tap water.

I do not use bleach...Ever.

Basically all of my equipment is plastic except for my 1-gallon glass carboys, hydrometer, and thermometer. So my auto-siphon, bottling wand, turkey baster (to take samples), hydrometer test tubes, carboy caps, and blowoff tubes are all plastic.

My bottles are glass. I re-use them and soak them in B-Brite for 2-3 hours and then rinse incredibly well and then sanitize them with star san right before using.

The plastic taste comes out only after bottling. My hydrometer samples and my leftover bit from bottling always taste really great. Nice hop bitterness, nice and smooth, etc...Then 3 weeks later and a few days in the fridge, BAM...Plastic burps and a weird tinge in the flavor of the beer.
Click to expand...

Is the Star San made with tap water?
 
Since this is occurring after bottling I would suggest replacing everything you use to bottle from siphon to wand, tubing, spigot,etc because I don't see anything else in your process prior to bottling that would cause the phenolics you re getting once bottled.

Are you sure you are not experiencing oxidation in the taste? Cardboard, sherry like flavors? This would seem a more reasonable issue to look at alternatively.
 
duboman said:
Since this is occurring after bottling I would suggest replacing everything you use to bottle from siphon to wand, tubing, spigot,etc because I don't see anything else in your process prior to bottling that would cause the phenolics you re getting once bottled.

Are you sure you are not experiencing oxidation in the taste? Cardboard, sherry like flavors? This would seem a more reasonable issue to look at alternatively.
Click to expand...

Definitely not (or at least I don't think so). I have weird plastic-y burps. From everything I've read, that's phenolics, right?
 
jethro55 said:
So then B-Bright is causing it?
Click to expand...

How could it? I soak my bottles in B-Bright and then rinse them thoroughly in cold water. Then I fill the with starsan and shake it all around. I dump out the starsan right before bottling.
 
JeffoC6 said:
Definitely not (or at least I don't think so). I have weird plastic-y burps. From everything I've read, that's phenolics, right?
Click to expand...

Honestly I have no ideas where the problem is otherwise. B-brite is non chlorine based, you use distilled water for everything, you use star San and you said everything prior to bottling tastes fine

Phenolics are associated with poor sanitizing or chlorine/chloramines and it appears neither of those are issues.

I suggested equipment for bottling as an idea or oxidation as a possible issue as well because that would be next guess as it will typically occur with poor bottling skills.

The only other thing is you leaving something out or overlooking something in your process you are not relating to us.
 
duboman said:
Honestly I have no ideas where the problem is otherwise. B-brite is non chlorine based, you use distilled water for everything, you use star San and you said everything prior to bottling tastes fine

Phenolics are associated with poor sanitizing or chlorine/chloramines and it appears neither of those are issues.

I suggested equipment for bottling as an idea or oxidation as a possible issue as well because that would be next guess as it will typically occur with poor bottling skills.

The only other thing is you leaving something out or overlooking something in your process you are not relating to us.
Click to expand...

I mean, I clean everything with hot tap water and unscented dish detergent. I rinse thoroughly and then, before using on brew day, I re-rinse and then fill with starsan, shake, and let it hang out for awhile. The tap water wouldn't do anything here, would it?
 
JeffoC6 said:
I mean, I clean everything with hot tap water and unscented dish detergent. I rinse thoroughly and then, before using on brew day, I re-rinse and then fill with starsan, shake, and let it hang out for awhile. The tap water wouldn't do anything here, would it?
Click to expand...

Dish detergent is NOT b-brite, which is it? It is possible you are using a detergent that has chlorine in it and if you are using that on your bottling equipment or anything it is not getting as well rinsed as you have thought.

Star San is a sanitizer and does not clean or remove chlorine residue. If your tap water has chlorine or chloramines in it and you are using that to dilute star San or keeping things wet with the water then yes it is possible.

Sorry but you are kind of changing what you originally stated earlier:(
 
Where are you getting your distilled water? If it's from one of those kiosks at the grocery where you fill your own bottles then maybe their activated carbon filters are wore out or not functioning properly. I think this happened to me recently.
 
duboman said:
Dish detergent is NOT b-brite, which is it? It is possible you are using a detergent that has chlorine in it and if you are using that on your bottling equipment or anything it is not getting as well rinsed as you have thought.

Star San is a sanitizer and does not clean or remove chlorine residue. If your tap water has chlorine or chloramines in it and you are using that to dilute star San or keeping things wet with the water then yes it is possible.

Sorry but you are kind of changing what you originally stated earlier:(
Click to expand...

I use B-Brite to soak my bottles in and then rinse with tap water. I then fill with each bottle with starsan/distilled water solution right before I fill them.

I use B-Brite to soak my glass carboys. I use hot tap water and B-Brite and fill the carboys up and let them sit for awhile to get all the gunk out. I then dump it out, rinse thoroughly with hot tap water, then fill them up again and with just hot tap water and let them sit again. Then I dump them out, re-rinse, and put away.

Those are the only things I use B-Brite for.

I use unscented dish soap to clean all of my other equipment. Hoses, bottling wand, auto-siphon, hydrometer, etc.

I get my distilled water at the store. Pocono Springs brand. They actually don't bottle it at the store.
 
So you are using dish soap for everything you use to transfer your beer into the bottle?

That's where the problem may lie..... Replace and begin using the b brite or OXY or PBW to clean these items.

That's all I got:)
 
What is your recipe?
What yeast are you using?
How does the wort taste after your boil?
How does your beer taste when you rack to secondary (if you do)?
How does your beer taste at bottling time?

I haven't seen answers to these questions. These answers may be key to getting advice on what is going wrong for you.

You are doing alot of things right and will get the brew you are looking for!
 
duboman said:
So you are using dish soap for everything you use to transfer your beer into the bottle?

That's where the problem may lie..... Replace and begin using the b brite or OXY or PBW to clean these items.

That's all I got:)
Click to expand...

Might as well try. I'll brew the same recipe i just tried,
But will replace my autosiphon, tubing, and bottling wand.
What oxyclean should i buy at the store? Any particular kind?
So use that ONLY, right? No dish soap at all? Can I use the
Oxyclean exclusively? No more b-brite either?
 
Its probably the bottles or the bottling bucket, that's what it was for me.
Run the bottles through the dish washer each time on sterilize and replace your b bucket and bottle filler.
 
When was the last time you took the spigot off the bottling bucket, disassembled it into its component parts, cleaned then sanitized before re-assembling?
 
elpenoso said:
Its probably the bottles or the bottling bucket, that's what it was for me.
Run the bottles through the dish washer each time on sterilize and replace your b bucket and bottle filler.
Click to expand...

So you're saying a 3 hour soak in B-Brite wouldn't clean them out thoroughly enough?

I don't use a bottling bucket. I rack from my primary to another clean, sanitized, 1 gallon glass carboy. Then from there I bottle using my autosiphon.
 
Ogri said:
When was the last time you took the spigot off the bottling bucket, disassembled it into its component parts, cleaned then sanitized before re-assembling?
Click to expand...

I don't use a bottling bucket. I rack from my primary to another clean and sanitized 1-gallon glass carboy. From there I bottle.
 
Are you filling the bottles from the bottom up with a wand so you are not aerating the beer?

Do you see any bubbles in the hose as you bottle?
 
JeffoC6 said:
I just tasted my recent IPA. I hopped the hell out of it, used distilled water with a little bit of calcium chloride added (thanks Yooper!), was an absolute freak about santitation, have a temperature controlled fermentation chamber, that I kept at 62 degrees (US-05) the entire duration of fermentation, and at bottling, used distilled water to mix my priming sugar with. I'm STILL getting a weird off flavor. See below for the explination of this flavor. Why is this happening to me? I'm using distilled water! :(

I haven't brewed 1 single batch of homebrew that made me say "wow" since I started this hobby over a year ago. I'm about to give up...

"My homebrew tastes like I'm burping vinyl tubing and plastic bags" Caused by Chlorophenol

What might have happened?
Using bleach to clean your brewing equipment or having highly chlorinated tap water where you live is most likely the culprate for homebrew with a 'plasticy' finish..particularly noticeable when you burp.

Preventative steps / options:
1) Avoid chlorinated water by using distilled water from your local grocer
2) Pre-treat chlorinated tap water by boiling for 15-20 minutes then cooling. This will evaporate chlorine and remove excess amounts from the water.
3) Pre-treat water with a Campden Tablet (potassium metabisulfite). The Campden tablets act as a catalyst for Chlorophenol removal.
Click to expand...

Distilled water is no good for brewing, as the distillation process robs the water of essential elements needed for beer. If you are not satisfied with your local tap water, and are going out of your way to pay for distilled, it would beige beneficial in the future to pay an extra dollar for spring water.

*edit* this is misinformed tripe. My apologies.
 
danno_lee said:
Distilled water is no good for brewing, as the distillation process robs the water of essential elements needed for beer. If you are not satisfied with your local tap water, and are going out of your way to pay for distilled, it would beige beneficial in the future to pay an extra dollar for spring water.
Click to expand...

That's what started this whole thing. I never used tap water, I went right for spring water, and had the same thing I'm talking about now. Yooper advised me that I should start using distilled (or RO) and add some calcium chloride to it to "build it back up," which is what I've been doing.

So basically spring water doesn't work, tap water won't work, and distilled water with calcium chloride hasn't worked.
 
duboman said:
Are you filling the bottles from the bottom up with a wand so you are not aerating the beer?

Do you see any bubbles in the hose as you bottle?
Click to expand...

I'm very good with the autosiphon, so I never have any bubbles/aeration. I also fill from the bottom up with the bottling wand, yes.
 
Just had a though. When I dry hop, I boil my hop bag in tap water for approx. 3 minutes, then I shake out all the water and let it soak in my distilled water/starsan solution for a few minutes.

Could the boiling in regular tap water bring anything into the fold here?
 
JeffoC6 said:
Just had a though. When I dry hop, I boil my hop bag in tap water for approx. 3 minutes, then I shake out all the water and let it soak in my distilled water/starsan solution for a few minutes.

Could the boiling in regular tap water bring anything into the fold here?
Click to expand...

No and disregard the other comment about distilled water not being good, it's a misinformed comment as you are building up as per Yoop's suggestion:)

At this point I think you really need to reevaluate your off flavor as we have all chimed in with everything pertaining to phenols and it seems like its something else.....

Either that or you need to contact the provider of the water you're buying and verify it has no chlorine or chloramines in it.
 

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