Smack pack not bulging....is it dead?

I ordered a Belgian quad kit from Williams brewing about a month ago. From the day I ordered to the day it arrived was 8 days. I didn't have a pot big enough at the time, so I put the kit in the fridge. When I opened it, the ice pack was totally thawed and warm. The yeast pack wasn't swelled, so I just threw the whole thing in the fridge till yesterday. I smacked it at 5 30pm, hoping to brew today at around 10 am. 5 hours after smacking it, it didn't swell at all yet, so I tried again. Woke up this morning at 8 and it didn't swell at all. When I smacked it the first time, It was fresh out of the fridge, but it's been sitting out at room temp for 16 hours.

Is it possible that the pack came smacked already, in transit? Did I kill it by refrigerating it? Could I not have broke the inner pouch yet? This is the first time I'm using one, so I don't know what to expect. Could I open it up and use it anyway, or can I return it and get another one? I don't have a LHBS, so I'm pretty screwed for 2 weeks if I have to return it and get a new one. What are my options at this point?

While I'm on a yeast thread, I have one other question. The yeast pack (abbey ale II) says it's good for OG up to 1060, but it's a belgian quad which the instructions say should start at 1081. Should i wait and get another pack of yeast, or make a starter with my one pack, or just use it the way it is? Well, it it even swells.

Look at the manufacture date. I had one that was slow. I saw somewhere to add 12 hours for every month over 2 it is old? Within 2 days it swelled up fine.

The pack doesn't have to swell. I've several packs that didn't.

My recommendation would be to make a starter. Especially with a 1.080 beer. By making a starter, you can tell if the yeast is good also.

Ok, this is where I'm conused. Ithought the point of the wyeast smack packs was that it acted as a starter. If I need to make a starter with this pack, how would I go about doing it? Would I just do it the same way as a liquid yeast. I don't have DME, or yeast nutrient on hand, nor do I have easy access to that stuff, so should I just pour the contents of the smack pack into a jar and let it do it's thing?

The inner pack is a nutrient pack. Its only purpose is to "proof" the yeast. A lot of times, it doesn't work as very good "proof" that the yeast is good though.

A starter is not to get the yeast active, but to make enough healthy yeast to fully ferment your beer without stressing them. A smack pack or vial does not have enough cells, although they claim to be pitchable in 5 gallons. You can safely pitch directly into a beer below 1.045.

Did your kit come with any DME? if it did, steal some from that. If its only LME, you could steal some of that too. Just cover and refrigerate the can once its opened.

If you state whether you only have LME, DME or both, I can give you exact numbers of how much to use. You want to make around a 1L starter. Mix enough water and extract to make a specific gravity of 1.040. You don't need to measure the SG, just use software to approximate how much extract to add to 1L for that gravity.

For DME starters, I do 100g DME to 1L water. I just ran the numbers in beersmith for liquid. It looks like if you adding .3 lbs of liquid extract to 1L of water (.26 gallons) will get you there.

You will want to boil the "wort", cool it and transfer to a sanitized vessel. Growlers, juice bottles, gallon water jugs or even a pitcher would work. Sanitize the outside of the pack, cut with sanitized scisors and pour in the yeast. The starter wort doesn't have to be a specific temperature, but I wouldn't pitch if its over 80F. Shake the bejuses out of it to aerate. When you walk by it, give it a shake or swirl.

At this point you have 2 options.

1 - pitch the starter into your wort when its at high krausen
2 - wait 72 hours, refrigerate to drop out the yeast, decant off most of the liquid and pitch the slurry. This method is more common with huge starters for lagers.

Hope this helps.

Wow, that's a lot more info than I was expecting, but I do love that you gave it to me. I feel I should tell you that I have very limited access to ingredients and equipment. I don't have a LHBS, and use the internet for EVERYTHING I need. So the only thing I have right now is the kit. It consists of a 13 lb bag of LME, two pouches of hops, flavoring spices, and a pouch of yeast that refuses to bulge. I'd really rather not cut the bag open and take out a small amount of LME out. I do have a box of dextrose leftover from a coopers kit. Is it possible to use that in the starter? Thanks a bunch for your help ed. Wish I could hook you up with a bottle when this monster bottles.

Silly thing to point out, but sometimes the inner pack is REALLY hard to get broken. My last one took me about 10 minutes of smacking, squeezing and pounding before it finally broke. Are you sure it popped?

Try to find the inner pouch. You CAN feel it in there, about the size of a ketchup packet. If you find it, work it into the corner of the pouch and give it a good hard smack.

What's the date on your pack. The advice about old packs taking longer is good... my experience, exactly.

I'm pretty sure it also says this on the back of the smack-pack, but if you go to the link here:

Wyeast Labs said:

Full swelling of Activator™ packages is not required for their use. The contents of Activator™ packages may be direct-pitched without prior activation. Our smack pack technology is intended to be a tool for your use in determining viability, and in initiating metabolism for faster starts to fermentation.

Click to expand...

-Joe

Another note, the inner pouch is not the yeast, its a nutrient. If you can't get it to pop, no big deal, like Nostalgia said.

I can see what you mean about cutting open the bag of LME. The dextrose won't work. You don't want to grow yeast in pure sugar. It will be "programmed" to be lazy and not ferment the maltose and other sugars.

Here are my suggestions:

1. Go as normal for now. Expect a slow start. Make sure to aerate like crazy. Lots of oxygen will help the yeast grow and finish.

2. Brew the beer, put it in your sanitized fermenter. Pull some wort out, dilute it and make a starter. If you sanitize very well, it will be ok if you don't pitch right away. Wait until the starter kicks off, and pitch it at high krausen.

3. On the day you are brewing, pull out the amount of LME I stated above and make a starter while you are brewing. Do what I said in #2 about putting the wort in a sanitized fermenter.

I've had this happen. Still got yeast activity without problems. It just took a little longer for things to start.....

This is one of the questions i was embarassed to ask. How big is the inner pouch? If it's the size of a ketchup packet, then that's a lot smaller than what I was expecting. I never actually felt the inner pouch, and no, I'm not sure I even broke it. I've fiddled with this pouch a lot though. I've smacked it a dozen times, I've squeezed it, I've twisted it, I've fondled it to the point I think it may have called the police on me. But it won't budge. If I lay it flat, it's the same size as when I started. I actually just got home from my parents house, which I robbed for anything made out of glass and came up with a perfect vessel for yeast starters, and 6 containers for washing yeast, so I'm thinking maybe I should cut the top off the pack, throw it in the jar, take out the nutrient packet, throw that i the jar, and see what happens. Or maybe I'll just sober up and get some more yeast. I'm brewing a quad, but maybe I should stop messing with those tripels. Got my mind all twisted up.

If you can't find the inner pack, don't worry about it. It would be worse to pour out the yeast. You would be opening yourself up to infection. If you can't make a starter, it won't be the end of the world. Maybe expect the beer to finish a little higher than the directions say.

this is one of the problems i"ve been trying to avoid. I wanted everything to turn out right for this one, so it's starting to annoy me that things are going wrong. But I should have known to have two packs of yeast ready anyway, just for the high gravity. I'm ordering a bunch of stuff from NB right now, and a high gravity trappist smack pack and a white labs trappist yeast are on my list. as well as nutrient, and a bunch of yeasts for my cider experiment I'm going to run. Hoping craigslist comes through with a few more 1 gallon jugs in the next week though. Got 2 on the way, but i want to have a few more for experiments(at least 5, for 5 gallon experiments). For now though, just hoping this smacker swells up soon, so I can brew this beer and get it conditioning. so far, nothing, 30 hours after my initial attempt at smacking this biotch.

If you start at the top, squeezing the pack and working your way to one corner, you can trap the inner packet in the corner and feel if it's smacked or not. If you can't find it, then it was probably popped.

well, I never felt it from the beginning. I was looking for a much bigger packet, but I still wasn't ever able to feel anything inside the pouch. Now that I know the size it is, and wat to expect, I'm going to go try to smack this thing again. Thanks again for your help. I'll let ya know how the 5th smacking session goes.

Lets say you couldn't break the smack pack and then pitched the yeast and the contents of the smack pack into a starter, what would be the affects?

Not trying to thread jack this just seemed to be the most relevent thread for the question

This actually happened to me last week, with the Budvar yeast strain. No swelling after 3 days. I pitched it into a starter and it started fermenting within about 10 hours. The packet was only 6 months old.

A theory I had was that this packet may have gotten too cold while in my fridge, killing a portion of the yeast. So they weren't able to produce as much CO2 as normal. I recommend always making a starter. I haven't had a infected beer since I started using starters, and most beers reach terminal gravity in two weeks or less.

If your really stuck I would just pitch it, and expect a slow start. I also agree with everything Edcculus says! Maybe just jack a bit of your kit's extract and make a small starter in a growler to get it going.

The answer to these questions always is make a starter!!! You don't need to start a thread, or debate or worry. If you make a starter, you will know the answer.

This is one of those things, like using a hydrometer, that should not be done as an after thought. You got liquid yeast, you make yourself a starter, no if, and or buts, liquid yeast=yeast starter.

Whether your pack smacks or not, or your tube is out of date or it sat a room temperature, or any of those issue we may have with our yeast. Even if it's a pack of DRY...Make a starter and you will know what's up.

You test a yeast viability AND reproduce said viable cells, by making a starter.

Yeah definately crack open your LME and keep it in the fridge. I think it will be worth it. and thanks rev. for directing me to the "mistakes we've made thread" my beer still isn't infected (that i know of)

This beer has been in primary for 10 days and things are going good. I made the starter with the LME from the kit. When I was done cooling, the SG was 1.100, and I wasn't sure if the starter was enough, so I through in a vial of wlp500. I used a blow off tube, and thank God I did, because that thing blew off for 3 straight days. It's sitting comfortably now with an airlock at 66 degrees. This pic is from day 3.