Variations on Brandon-O's Graff

First, let me say, Brandon's Graf in the recipe section is flipping awesome. What a stellar idea. I just hope the commercial breweries eventually catch the hint and start making this big (while giving credit where credit is due of course)

I've done a couple batches of it now and am ready to experiment a bit.

I'd love to hear some more variations, so let this be a forum for posting and advising on recipes. HAREEBROWNBEEST has a good brew going right now that probably qualifies as a Graf, but I'll let him decide that.

Here's my first variation idea: apfelwit-graf

2 lbs flaked wheat
3 lbs liquid wheat malt extract
1 oz cascade
2 oranges
4 gallons apple juice

Process:
steep wheat at 150f for 20 min
Bring to boil
Add extract and half the hops
Boil for 30 min then add remaining hops
Boil 15 min then cool to 70 ish degrees

Dump in carboy and add apple juice and Belgian ale yeast (suggestions?)

I'm pumped!

I have my first Graff going right now. I haven't tried the original recipe, but below is what I did - basically brewed up 2 gallons of an amberish wort and combined it with 2 gallons of cider. The grist I used is a bit complicated, but it was some leftover grain (already mixed and crushed) from a different brew - the amounts are actually just an approximation based on the percentages of the original recipe. I have no idea how this will turn out, but I'm definitely excited about its potential.

Grist (for approx 2 gallons of 1.050 wort)
1 lb 5 oz Pale Malt - 53.0%
4.0 oz Pilsner Malt - 10.1%
2.0 oz Crystal 60 - 5.1%
2.0 oz Munich I - 5.1%
2.0 oz White Wheat Malt - 5.1%
0.3 oz Roasted Barley - 0.1%
0.3 oz Acidulated - 0.1% (for mash pH)
8.0 oz Amber Dry Extract - 20.2%

Hops
14 g Crystal[2.80 %] - 30 min

Misc
2 gallons of apple cider

Yeast
Edinburgh Scottish Ale (WLP028)

I like dry hopping my graff with amarillo...so good.

Both of those look like really good ideas. Jlem: no hops? Your recipe looks like many of my "this is what I have lying around can I make beer with it" recipes. (Some of which turn out better than my planned brews).

I did, more or less, the recipe in the OP and it is bubbling away currently. I used 4.5 lbs wheat malt extract and steeped some biscuit malt with the wheat. Ended up with 1.060 OG and a weird toasted bread color.

I'm using the wyeast 1214 Belgian Abby, which I've heard good things about. Brandon recommends notty, and it works great, any other good experience with different yeasts for the Graff?

Unferth said:

Both of those look like really good ideas. Jlem: no hops? Your recipe looks like many of my "this is what I have lying around can I make beer with it" recipes. (Some of which turn out better than my planned brews).

I did, more or less, the recipe in the OP and it is bubbling away currently. I used 4.5 lbs wheat malt extract and steeped some biscuit malt with the wheat. Ended up with 1.060 OG and a weird toasted bread color.

I'm using the wyeast 1214 Belgian Abby, which I've heard good things about. Brandon recommends notty, and it works great, any other good experience with different yeasts for the Graff?

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Yes, there are hops - 14 grams (~0.5 ounce) of Crystal hops (only 2.8 AA%) for 30 minutes. Gives an estimated 5 IBUs.

In a way it was what I had laying around, but the grist was actually intentional for a different beer. I've been tweaking a hoppy amber ale for a few years and this grist (minus the extract) was the latest iteration. I actually never ended up brewing it and used most of the grain for another beer (a "brown" ale aged on fresh cranberries) and had 2 pounds left over so decided to use it for this. The amber extract I just had laying around.

This is my first ever Graff, so I don't have any experience with other yeasts.

My Apfelwit has a half ounce of cascade and a half ounce of Chinook, so it should be 16 or 17 AA%.

The original graf recipe calls for very little hops, I wonder if 16 or 17% will be too much. It's actually on the low side for a Witbier.

I'm not sure if this is answerable, but I wonder at what point a graf becomes a fruit beer? If we have traditional cider on one end being apple juice and yeast and a fruit beer on the other end, is a Graf just anywhere in between?

On a side note, this Apfelwit I'm doing had a pretty solid krausen level--even came through the blow off tube. That hasn't ever happened to me on a cider before. It smells wonderful though!

Dammit! It looks like my Graff has an infection! Went to rack it last night and there was a slight film on top and some white "spots". Not terribly surprising I guess considering the carboy was previously used for a Brett beer and I pulled this Graff together spur of the moment - I may not have been as sanitary as I should have been. In fact I now wonder if I sanitized the carboy at all!

I'm going to let it run it's course and see where it goes. Might still be good, even if not what I was going for.

JLem said:

Dammit! It looks like my Graff has an infection! Went to rack it last night and there was a slight film on top and some white "spots". Not terribly surprising I guess considering the carboy was previously used for a Brett beer and I pulled this Graff together spur of the moment - I may not have been as sanitary as I should have been. In fact I now wonder if I sanitized the carboy at all!

I'm going to let it run it's course and see where it goes. Might still be good, even if not what I was going for.

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I am sorry for your loss. I have heard you can rack out from underneath it sometimes... Might be worth a shot

Unferth said:

I am sorry for your loss. I have heard you can rack out from underneath it sometimes... Might be worth a shot

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I looked at it again yesterday morning and now I'm thinking it might be ok. Not 100% sure either way. I racked it into a secondary glass carboy. We'll see what happens.

Btw, I think racking from under the infection only works if it is a mold, which only really grows at the surface. If it is Brett or a bacterial infection (Lacto, Pedio, etc) it doesn't matter - those critters are swimming throughout the liquid.

Good point. I hope it doesn't take to the bugs.

I bottled my wheat Graff tonight with 2 table spoons of powdered orange peel and two tablespoons coriander. It tasted weakish, actually, despite the 6.7% final ABV... But I have been drinking my fabulous Russian imperial stout, so that might be a factor.

Brandon o is right, though, 17% AAU is too much for a cider. I'm going to let this one sit for a few months I think. The hops just doesn't seem to pair well with the apple juice. And I LOVE hops. Maybe it will taste better carbonated with some age on it.