The AG Fantasy

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

SkaBoneBenny

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
220
Reaction score
0
Location
Boston, MA
So I've heard from everywhere that going AG will drastically imrove my beers. After getting my taxes back, I'm using my rebate to buy my AG equiptment. It's hopefully in the mail as we speak. or type. Working the night shift tonight stocking shelves, I spent most of my time day dreaming about how great my beer will be. But really... will it improve that much? What are the actual tangible aspects you can point to? I understand I will have a great deal more control over flavors and body and such, but will the overall taste really improve? How-so? Have you seen this in your own beer?

Forgive my post-nightshift ramblings. I just spend all night fantasizing and I'm curious how close to reality it might turn out to be...
-Ben
 
You're in for a ride. :D

You will most certainly notice higher consistency, brighter/cleaner flavors, better head...etc...etc. And you are now stepping into a realm where you have so much more control. You probably won't notice or realize how much more control until you get a few AG batches done and tasted, but then it will really click.

Enjoy! :mug:

Oh and make sure you have lots of headspace on your boil kettle because you will have tons of hot break, which is something you may have only minimally experienced with extracts.
 
The main thing I noticed was that my beers stopped tasting, well, extract-y. They didn't carmelize and tasted fresher, like fresh grains. And don't dismiss the "body thing". Huge difference- some beers you want "thicker" but not all of them.

Another thing, I'm now wild about maris otter malt. That's going to be my main base malt, unless I want something else- try that with an extract! I am still going to do some extract or PM recipes sometimes, I think. But I do taste a real difference in the AG.
 
Basically, it takes more practice to brew from scratch and get it just right but when you finally get your process and recipe down it's like the difference between the Duncan Hines box and your Grandma's chocolate cake.
 
I don't know how good your extract brews are, I only did about 5 or 6 before I went AG. Mine were drinkable, but still pretty mediocre, I see some nice looking names in your signature though.
I am going to tell you that my beers will stand neck to neck with the best craft brews and Euro imports that money can buy!
 
It's just more enjoyable, I think, to do AG. You aren't limited in any way as to what malts you can use, or how much control you have over the process. It's a lot more involved, but it's a good kind of involved.

If you love making beer, you will REALLY love making AG beer. I can't think of a single person who has ever regretted making the leap.
 
I have not tasted my fisrt all grain yet, but i like more involvement in my beers. Its not so much dump in the extract stir it cool add water. You get to see the whole process start from scratch and thats great. It takes more time but thats what i was looking for. PLus you get the chance to build your own equipment and own methods. Its also cheaper per batch so its more justifiable to go out and buy some ingredients becasue generaaaly all you need is a 20 dollar bill. Although you will spend alot more on equipment. I thought i could do it for under a hundred dollars buy i have been buying stuff twice a week every week, thermometers, ball valves...gotta get an oxygenation system soon too! IM sure the beer will taste great, but i reaaly like the increased involvement.
 
Lessee, If my LHBS has 30 kinds of Malt, 30 kinds of Hops, and 30 kinds of yeast. And I use 4 different kinds of malt, 2 hops, and one yeast in an AG recipe, that gives me 27,000 different recipes- without accounting for varying the proprtions. At 35 cents per bottle.
 
The truth? Your beer is going to be so amazing you will have people knocking down your door to scrub your bottles so they can have a try.
 
gruntingfrog said:
... it's like the difference between the Duncan Hines box and your Grandma's chocolate cake.
What if my Grandma made her chocolate cake out of a Duncan Hines box mix?:confused: :D

Seriously, that's a good analogy. I did extract w/ steeped grains and partial mash brews for years. I got to the point where I made some damn good beers that had no 'extract taste'. I thought for a time that I would probably never want or need to make the switch to AG. By the time I decided to give AG a try, I wondered how much of a real difference I would be able to discern. I was excited about making the jump, but a bit wary of the claims. I decided to accept the possibility that I might not notice a difference.

Well, I now think of by years of brewing as two separate eras - BAG and AAG - before all grain and after all grain. Everything posted here is true. If you enjoy brewing extracts beers, you'll enjoy AG even more. It presents more challenges and more time is involved, but it is more fun for me and more of an 'event'! And control is a real plus. I can now brew varieties of beers spot-on that I could only approximate in the BAG years. Since going AG, I feel I have a lot more recipe options open to me.
 
My first AG went great and I realy loved the whole aspect but the beer turned out, thus far, not all that impressive. This is due to the fact that I did the whole sparging thing wrong though so don't let that sway your move to AG. It's still young though so we will see how it turns out in a few weeks.


Dan
 
As everyone has said, it will be a world of difference. All of my extract beers kind of tasted the same, and bird hit on it perfectly about being fresher. You can actually taste the freshness.

I honestly like my beer better than most commercial beers, including craft beers. I mean, I run into a few commercial beers that are insane....but I'd take a glass of my LWPA over 95% of anything I can buy.

If oyu like your beer now--just wait. Don't get discouraged though--it takes some practice and some experimentation.
 
gruntingfrog said:
Basically, it takes more practice to brew from scratch and get it just right but when you finally get your process and recipe down it's like the difference between the Duncan Hines box and your Grandma's chocolate cake.

I agree. It do take some time to dial in your system.
And even if Grandma used Duncan Hines, she made it better than
I ever could.

Ag fantasy? the reality of it is that it is fresher and you decide how your beer is made. Not some malt extract manufacturer.
 
Ragu may be a decent spaghetti sauce and people will clean their plates.

But puree you're own home-grown tomatoes and add herbs from your garden and it's a meal they'll remember for a long time.

Plus you get to have fancy equipment and measuring devices like this... :D

BrewPot.JPG
 
Love the analogy about Grandma's chocolate cake. There couldn't be a more accurate analogy when talking about AG VS extract brewing.
 
BierMuncher said:
Ragu may be a decent spaghetti sauce and people will clean their plates.

But puree you're own home-grown tomatoes and add herbs from your garden and it's a meal they'll remember for a long time.

Plus you get to have fancy equipment and measuring devices like this... :D

View attachment 1511

Man, that is one sweet pot! :D
 
BierMuncher said:
Ragu may be a decent spaghetti sauce and people will clean their plates.

But puree you're own home-grown tomatoes and add herbs from your garden and it's a meal they'll remember for a long time.

Plus you get to have fancy equipment and measuring devices like this... :D

View attachment 1511


Dude, you have the greatest gadgets:D


Dan
 
I've often thought while making extract beer that it was a little bit like making instant coffee. But really, the orange juice from concentrate analogy is much better. My first two AG batches are still waiting to be bottled, so I don't know how they'll turn out, but I know that they certainly looked and smelled like beer when I made them.

Meanwhile I'm drinking the extract batches I have in stock. I have noticed, too, that after awhile they have all started to taste the same.*

I hope AG changes this.

*I will say this, though-- my very best ever extract batch came about the first time I used a turkey fryer to do a full boil and chilled with a wort chiller. The results were quite a bit better than all of my previous efforts that were done on my kitchen stove.
 
McCall St. Brewer said:
*I will say this, though-- my very best ever extract batch came about the first time I used a turkey fryer to do a full boil and chilled with a wort chiller. The results were quite a bit better than all of my previous efforts that were done on my kitchen stove.
Absolutely agree..my Plywood IPA is the best batch I've made to date.


Dan
 
I think this week is my AG anniversary. I went partial mash for one run after 9 extracts, then AG ever since and have never looked back.

Yes, you are going to need to make and buy more equipment. But if you can afford to, you will actually save yourself money in the long run. I can do 5 gallon batches for right around 12-14 bucks on avg. And I dont want to start a debate, but Im much more satisfied with my AG beers. Maybe because Im more experienced now, maybe its the AG who knows. :rolleyes:

heres my 5 gallon setup. Its a cell phone picture, so sorry about the size/quality. The only extra piece of equipment i have that you dont see is a 4 gallon ceramic canning pot (14 bucks) for my strike/sparge water. Thats a standard 5 gallon converted Igloo, and a 9 gallon SS pot (which was my biggest investment) Nothing fancy but it works very well. But its addicting though. Im building my 10 gallon setup slowly but surely.

And lol, but you have us to guide you. What more could you possibly ask for??? :mug: ;)



3394-5Gallon.jpg
 
As a chef/homebrewer, the best example of extract vs. all grain I can think of is chicken stock. At work I make and use chicken stock from scratch whenever I can. If maybe I don't have the time to make fresh broth, I'll use chicken base. while the fresh chicken stock is superior in flavor, it's nice to have a good substitute at hand when you need it.
Yes, all grain beer is better because you have more control over the malt bill, over the mash schedule and sparging. But, if you don't have almost half of a day to do all that (making fresh stock), extracts will do you just fine.
 
Its a hobby, and all grain is just more fun if you can give more time. Yes, it is cheaper in the long run, and you have COMPLETE control. But, the difference comes in how far you want your hobby to go. Have fun day dreaming! :mug:
 
Plus, doesn't this look like more fun on a Friday night than just openning a can of syrup?

...not that there's anything wrong with that...

Grain_Bill_1.JPG

Grain_Bill_2.JPG


Honestly though, I'll do extracts/PM's in the winter when it's impossible to be out in the garage.
 
Here's a couple of my hard-earned cents...

I started out, like most, doing extract/steeping. Not too far into it, I started attempting some small partial mashes. Eventually, after about 10 batches, I gave up extract and went exclusively partial mash. About the same time, it started getting cool, so I felt confident ordering liquid yeast. I also bought an aerator kit.

This was about the time when I saw the biggest up tick in quality.

When I was given a 50-liter SS MLT, I started upping the grain:extract ratio in my PM's. The quality kept getting better, as my control and experience with mashing increased. Then, I thought, I've been mashing for awhile, and adding smaller and smaller amounts of extract...why not try AG? And so I did.

The verdict? There was no magical transformation there. I don't see a huge practical difference between a PM with a high grain:extract ratio, and an all-grain recipe. I believe, honestly, that it's more of a principled difference...an ideological one.

And so, given that I like to do 2 batches side by side when I brew, and given that I have three 32-qt kettles, my latest game plan for brew days has been to do one PM and one AG. That way, I can split the AG wort up into two kettles for a good boil-down before I combine them for the actual boil...all the while, the PM is boiling right next to it.

So, before this post gets too long, I'll come to my conclusion on the matter: what matters most, in my experience, is that you have a large proportion of your sugars from the mash. The difference between a mostly-mash and an all-grain is imperceptible to me in all but abstract principles. Malt extract is still a staple for me, even after 33 batches. It allows me to make the high-gravity brews that I crave without an absurdly long boil time (due to huge strike and sparge water volumes), and also allows me to do PM's and AG's side by side until I buy a 10-gallon kettle.

And, most importantly, after 33 batches, my best so far (Dark Horse Stout v1.0, Smoked Porter, Hop Beatdown Double IPA) all have extract in some proportion or another. That should tell you something. The stout was my last extract/steeping batch, and a beautiful beer. So just remember, great beer can be made with extract---but eventually, adding syrup or powder to water and fermenting it just gets a little...pedestrian. That's my opinion, at least. I love this hobby, and the best part about it is making up my own recipes. Given the small selection of extracts, (and given that extract-y cider taste), mashing is the logical path after awhile. I won't knock extract (like some have already done), but just say that going partial mash and all grain is probably where you'll end up.

Lastly...now that I have a grain mill and a 55lb sack of gleneagles maris otter, I'll probably be doing a lot more AG and using a lot less extract, given how stupidly expensive the stuff is.

:mug:
 
Evan, here-here. Well said...well spoken.

Evan! said:
I'll probably be doing a lot more AG and using a lot less extract, given how stupidly expensive the stuff is.

:mug:
And there is a big part of it. Between harvesting yeast and using larger quantities of all grain, I can do 10 gallons of my SWMBO Slayer Belgian Blonde this weekend for around $24.00.

plus shipping....damn shipping...
 
Well it's good to know my fantasies aren't too far from reality! The 9 gallon brewpot, wort chiller, and cajun classic are in the mail. My mash system is sitting on the floor next to my mountains of research. Looks like I'm defending my thesis on the 30th, my birthday, and celebrating with my first AG brew!! What a day that will be.

Thanks for all the feedback. I'm so excited for AG... I almost can't sleep.
-Ben
 
BierMuncher said:
Evan, here-here. Well said...well spoken.


And there is a big part of it. Between harvesting yeast and using larger quantities of all grain, I can do 10 gallons of my SWMBO Slayer Belgian Blonde this weekend for around $24.00.

plus shipping....damn shipping...

Are you east or west of the mississip? I guess, if you're in St.L, you're west. Sux. Listermann.com is awesome, cuz they have free shipping east of the Mississippi for orders over $35.
 
Back
Top