Wyeast 3724 - Here We Go Again...

I am a glutton for punishment - I am attempting to use 3724 once again and once again I am running into the SOS that I always do when using this yeast. If the end product was not as great as it is I would have ditched this yeast long ago.

I had some washed yeast that worked much better but the mason jar lid buckled and compromised the yeast so I had to start from scratch with a new smack pack. Not good.

Brewed a Saison on 12/23/10 with an OG of 1.078 and as of yesterday I was stuck around 1.030 (refrac reading converted). Started in the mid-high 80's and I have been keeping this in the 90's for the last 2+ weeks but the gravity has not gone down at all during the last 2 weekly readings that I have taken.

I do have a pack of 3711 which I can build up with a starter and pitch although I would rather not. I can wait longer if necessary with the 3724 but it just seems that I am wasting time/resources. Is there anything else that I am missing/can do to get this kickstarted again or should I throw in the towel and pitch the 3711. I read the threads where people claim to have reached terminal gravity in a few weeks at lower temps and I just cannot figure out why the first gen of this yeast sticks on me every time. Thanks, Montanaandy

When I used it recently, I just forgot about the beer for 3 months while it was in the primary and when I kegged it, it was at final gravity and, thus far, is my best Saison to date!

I too feel your pain, but I've found with that yeast I always do better if I start at a much lower temperature and gradually ramp it up. I'll pitch at 68, keep it there for three days or so, and start adding 2-3 degrees per day (watching gravity) until I'm up into the mid-80s. I'm not sure why it works better, but when I've started hot I've always ended up having to fight to get past 65% attenuation. Starting at 68, that first 65% comes much slower, but then it doesn't stop until it gets to 85%

Just out of curiosity, any reason why you're avoiding the 3711? A pretty good brewer in my local club brought a saison he'd fermented with 3711 and it was possibly the best saison I've ever tasted. He noted how easy the 3711 was to work with.

Shooter said:

Just out of curiosity, any reason why you're avoiding the 3711? A pretty good brewer in my local club brought a saison he'd fermented with 3711 and it was possibly the best saison I've ever tasted. He noted how easy the 3711 was to work with.

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I have only used 3711 once before and I didn't have adequate temp control at that time and I ramped it up too high so the beer turned out badly (I also used Sorachi Ace hops and perhaps that had something to do with it too - who knows).

I was hoping to save the 3711 to make another Saison instead of having to use it to jump start the 3724. I am anxious to brew again with the 3711 because of all of the positive feedback and to use it correctly this time around. I use the 3724 mainly because my LHBS caries it and not the 3711 for some reason. Montanaandy

Ace_Club said:

When I used it recently, I just forgot about the beer for 3 months while it was in the primary and when I kegged it, it was at final gravity and, thus far, is my best Saison to date!

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Yeah, I think that I may just tuck it away in a corner of the brewery, keep it on the heat and take a gravity reading periodically until it eventually drops. Out of sight out of mind. Montanaandy

That strain for some reason hates working above 90*F. Lower it into the ~88* range, give the fermenter a little rock/swirl and see what happens. This was a problem I ran into on my last saison and I read somewhere that while these yeasts perform like champs at higher temps, they stall out and refuse to work anymore if it gets TOO warm.

Montanaandy said:

I have only used 3711 once before and I didn't have adequate temp control at that time and I ramped it up too high so the beer turned out badly (I also used Sorachi Ace hops and perhaps that had something to do with it too - who knows).

I was hoping to save the 3711 to make another Saison instead of having to use it to jump start the 3724. I am anxious to brew again with the 3711 because of all of the positive feedback and to use it correctly this time around. I use the 3724 mainly because my LHBS caries it and not the 3711 for some reason. Montanaandy

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Got it! I do know that, handled correctly, 3711 does seem to produce a nice beer.

indigi said:

That strain for some reason hates working above 90*F. Lower it into the ~88* range, give the fermenter a little rock/swirl and see what happens. This was a problem I ran into on my last saison and I read somewhere that while these yeasts perform like champs at higher temps, they stall out and refuse to work anymore if it gets TOO warm.

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That is interesting. I have also read various posts where some have hit terminal gravity with 90'+ temps from the beginning and others have been able to keep it in the mid-upper 70's - low 80's and have it eventually hit TG although it takes longer.

I was looking at my Farmhouse Ales book (again) and it reiterated that Dupont cranks up the heat initially (85-95'F) in order to speed the process so that they can brew again (space limitations) and then dials it down into the 70's for conditioning.

At this point I am just going to dial it down into the mid - low 80's and let it sit all by itself in the corner until it decides to cooperate...

They probably ferment under pressure as well, or at least more pressure than we generate in the average bucket/carboy, which has noticeable effects on different strains of yeast.

Maybe if you start it around the high 80s/low 90s it's not so finicky about the high temperatures. That'd be an interesting experiment to do if the strain didn't take so darn long to get its work done.

indigi said:

That strain for some reason hates working above 90*F. Lower it into the ~88* range, give the fermenter a little rock/swirl and see what happens. This was a problem I ran into on my last saison and I read somewhere that while these yeasts perform like champs at higher temps, they stall out and refuse to work anymore if it gets TOO warm.

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I've heard this and experimented on it with a Saison a while back. It seemed that the optimal temp was around the 85*F mark. Jamil also talked about this on "The Jamil Show" from BN. If you haven't listened to it, I would do so. gives some good info in ramping the temp to help finish the fermentation

USMCYoder said:

I've heard this and experimented on it with a Saison a while back. It seemed that the optimal temp was around the 85*F mark. Jamil also talked about this on "The Jamil Show" from BN. If you haven't listened to it, I would do so. gives some good info in ramping the temp to help finish the fermentation

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Thanks. I will see if I can find it and listen to the episode. Montanaandy

Ace_Club said:

When I used it recently, I just forgot about the beer for 3 months while it was in the primary and when I kegged it, it was at final gravity and, thus far, is my best Saison to date!

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Similar experience with this yeast. Mine took about the same time to fininsh, but well worth the wait. Went from 1.071 to 1.006. I bottled after the extended primary and had no problems with carbonation. (Kept mine at pretty close to 85 degrees.)

indigi said:

Maybe if you start it around the high 80s/low 90s it's not so finicky about the high temperatures. That'd be an interesting experiment to do if the strain didn't take so darn long to get its work done.

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I read a post somewhere that a brewpub pitches 3724 when their wort has cooled to just under 100-deg. I didn't go that far but I pitched 3724 into 80-deg wort yesterday. Due to the warm temp, there was almost no lag time and fermentation has continued into this morning at 82-deg. I'm going to raise the temp this afternoon to 86 and then to 90, tomorrow.