To mash or not to mash

I'm sure there are half a dozen threads on this subject already, so if the only reply I get to this is a link to one I'd be grateful. I've been doing extract+specialty grains for a while with no real interest in doing all grain (too much time and money for me to commit right now). I do like the idea of controlling my beer more, though. Partial mash is pretty much an enigma to me beyond the basic knowledge of what's going on. I have just the basic questions right now:
What additional equipment would I need?
Will the cost-per-batch decrease?
How does one do it (in layman's terms)
Should I bother right now?
Who wrote the book of love?

half_whit said:

I'm sure there are half a dozen threads on this subject already, so if the only reply I get to this is a link to one I'd be grateful. I've been doing extract+specialty grains for a while with no real interest in doing all grain (too much time and money for me to commit right now). I do like the idea of controlling my beer more, though. Partial mash is pretty much an enigma to me beyond the basic knowledge of what's going on. I have just the basic questions right now:
What additional equipment would I need?
Will the cost-per-batch decrease?
How does one do it (in layman's terms)
Should I bother right now?
Who wrote the book of love?

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Are you interested in All-Grain, or Partial Mashing?

If you are interested in Partial Mashing, you can accomplish some of your goals using some equipment that you already have. I assume that you are doing extract on your stove top. You can continue to do this with Partial Mashing. It could be something like doing Brew in a Bag (BIAB). I would check out Basic Brewing Radio and Basic Brewing Video. Particularly in the Video section, they have some excellent examples of partial mashing and the videos are only about 10 minutes long. It would give you and idea of what you could do for partial mashing using some of the equipment you already have.

As far as will your cost per batch decrease -- probably not when doing partial mashes. The reason is that you are still gettting many of your fermentables from extract (LME or DME). This is the spendy item. However, you will be able to enhance the flavor profile from the partial mashing.

How does one do it in laymen's terms -- you should be able to get some idea on this from the Basic Brewing Videos. Also, check our Mashing on YouTube. There are some excellent home videos that show partial mashing and full all-grain mashing there. I was amazed with the first video I saw regarding mashing. My reaction was "Is that all there is to it?"

If you want to go all grain, check out the thread on BIAB brewing. Again, it will give you some ideas on what you might be able to do with the equipment that you have.

I hope that you are able to find this helpful. Mark

half_whit said:

I'm sure there are half a dozen threads on this subject already, so if the only reply I get to this is a link to one I'd be grateful. I've been doing extract+specialty grains for a while with no real interest in doing all grain (too much time and money for me to commit right now). I do like the idea of controlling my beer more, though. Partial mash is pretty much an enigma to me beyond the basic knowledge of what's going on. I have just the basic questions right now:
What additional equipment would I need?
Will the cost-per-batch decrease?
How does one do it (in layman's terms)
Should I bother right now?
Who wrote the book of love?

Click to expand...

For additional equipment, possibly none. I used a huge mesh bag, and just did partial mashing in my bottling bucket, until I got an MLT.

Yes, the cost should decrease, as grain is cheaper than extract. How much is really up to you. If you use, say, 5 pounds of grain at $6, and replace 3 pounds of extract at $12, that's $6 for one batch right there.

How you do it is simple. You take the crushed grain, and add it to water. The amount of water is 1.5-2 quarts of water per pound of grain, and you want to hold the mash at 150-155 so you would use water of about 165-168 degrees to do that. Hold that for an hour (wrapped it in a sleeping bag, or put it in a warmed and turned off oven), and then lift out the grainbag and pour 170 degree water over that, up to your boil volume. That's about it.

You should do it! Right away!

It's easy, and it makes great beer. Plus, you can use malts that are "mash only" malts or adjuncts- like flaked corn or oats, or Munich malt or Vienna malt.

I freakin love this forum. Thanks guys! I'm definitely going to start considering it. Yooper, is that a picture of Tom Waits?

half_whit said:

I freakin love this forum. Thanks guys! I'm definitely going to start considering it. Yooper, is that a picture of Tom Waits?

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Yep! I LOVE Tom Waits, and sat and listened to some of my favorites just last night. It's perfect wallowing music, and it makes me feel better just knowing someone else has been so much worse off to write those songs.

Oh man. I play in a punk band but sometimes when I'm in those particularly bad places, playing some blues is THE best medicine. Keep at it! Once you get the idea there's nothing to it and you can't beat it.

I'm using a 3gal stock pot. So far the worst part seems to be the fact I will almost definitely have to upgrade that part. And clear out the oven...

"anywhere I lay my head" wrecks me every time

Thanks so much guys for the tips. I finally gave this the old college try tonight. OG came in a little light, but as near as I can tell I ended up with something that can actually be considered beer! Brewtarget told me to shoot for 1.057 and I got 1.052

Here's to crossed fingers

Five points off isn't that bad. Congratulations on your first mash, it really isn't that hard is it?

Check out Blackmore's Night. Way different than Deep Purple and Rainbow. The Wolfgangs, The Hillbilly Moon Explosion, The Baboons, The Hellfreaks and The Devils Daughters are good for a refreshing change. To Turn On the burners, Tune In the music and Drop Out the trub. While brewing Timothy Leary Lager......

I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I used this guy's directions :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/
Got a new brew kettle ($22 at walmart) and a pair of bags (someone told me to use paint strainers from home depot for 3 bucks. genius!). Between not buying so much extract and having to get muslin bags, I chopped about 15 bucks off my normal brewing cost.

The mashing process went really smoothly. I used the oven method and had nominal heat loss and didn't have to make any corrections. So...yeah I think for a first shot things went alright.

As far as my OG being off, is that just a matter of giving the mash more time to convert?

As far as my OG being off, is that just a matter of giving the mash more time to convert?

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I could be the crush. Next time you get your grain ask them to run it through twice. Doing BIAB you can have a finer crush and not have to worry about a stuck sparge.

half_whit said:

I thoroughly enjoyed myself. I used this guy's directions :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/
Got a new brew kettle ($22 at walmart) and a pair of bags (someone told me to use paint strainers from home depot for 3 bucks. genius!). Between not buying so much extract and having to get muslin bags, I chopped about 15 bucks off my normal brewing cost.

The mashing process went really smoothly. I used the oven method and had nominal heat loss and didn't have to make any corrections. So...yeah I think for a first shot things went alright.

As far as my OG being off, is that just a matter of giving the mash more time to convert?

Click to expand...

Now that you have done a partial mash and found it not so difficult, change things some more. Use more base grain and less extract yet and your costs will change again. Not scared yet? Add more base grain again and decrease the amount of extract to compensate. Still OK? When you get to the point that you only have a teaspoon of extract and the rest grain, just forget to put the extract in and.....you're all grain. That simple.

Haha that would be great. Someday. I'm limited in terms of space right now though, unless I do smaller batches. Anything bigger than the 5 gallon pot and I'm going to start running into the microwave above the stove!

half_whit said:

Haha that would be great. Someday. I'm limited in terms of space right now though, unless I do smaller batches. Anything bigger than the 5 gallon pot and I'm going to start running into the microwave above the stove!

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What's wrong with that? I'm the only one in this house that drinks beer and I limit myself to one or (rarely) 2 a day so I make a lot of 2 1/2 gallon batches. With that size batch most people can do them right on the kitchen stove and chill them in the sink with the added benefit that if they don't turn out well you only have a case to drink and you didn't spend a lot of money on the batch either. A 2 1/2 gallon batch can be fermented in your 6 1/2 gallon fermenter with no problem too and you'll never need a blow-off tube.

Hold that thought... I plan to ask more questions about small batch all grain brewing... For now, an update in my first partial mash batch.

Went to rack to secondary today. Ya know when I got my glass carboy, the stopper was so hard (what she said) that I could barely get it in (also yes). It even popped out the first time (she says many things). After so much use, it's gotten more supple. So much so that I managed to accidentally push it straight through. Never thought I'd be sanitizing a coat hanger.

... Not touching that last line there. I'll let that one go

The point of that stopper is for a place to mount the airlock so the carboy can vent a little CO2 and keep the fruit flies out. Since your fermentation should have been over when you moved the beer there won't be much outgassing and no krausen to deal with. You could have just rigged a piece of Saran wrap over the opening, held it in place with a rubber band or even a piece of string, poked a pinhole in it to let it vent but not big enough for a fruit fly to get in and left the stopper in there until you emptied the carboy.

I thought about rigging something like that, but I really didn't like the idea of leaving that stopper in there. It was plenty sanitized but I wasn't sure if it would impart rubbery flavors. And before you say it, I know that sounds stupid- I know the stopper wasn't going to dissolve in the beer. Still, if ya stick a stopper in your mouth, it tastes like rubber. I knew if I left it in there I was going to harp on it!

Hey dudes, wanted to take a moment to say thanks for all the encouragement. I've been partial-mashing ever since and having a hell of a lot of fun with it. Aside from the fact that 5 gallons of boiling water turns my apartment into a sauna, it's freakin awesome. I also took your advice further, used less and less extract. Played with some recipes and said "why use it at all? I like smaller beers anyway!" The last two brews didnt use any at all. My batch of Bitter came in around 3.8% and my batch of nut brown ale came in about 4.8%. The brown used some brown sugar but no extract.

So here's my next series of questions. I've been using Death Brewer's instructions for BIAB partial mashing with a 5gal BK and a 3gal as my dunk-sparge pot and consistently coming in a few points lower on my FG. A pleasant surprise packaged in a slightly higher ABV beer. So now I'm looking at all grain recipes for beers that I'd like to try and thinking...Why not just do some math to make a proportionately smaller bratch? What crucial steps am I then leaving out? I feel like this back-road path from extract to all-grain brewing deprived me of some essential information. (I even had to look up what lautering means!)

Does it matter? I mean...I'm still ending up with beer! I'm not selling it on the mainstream market, just giving it to my friends. Or are there some steps in doing all-grain that I should really learn in order to do it right?

Lastly, I know there's probably a simple answer to this, but I have to ask anyway. I looked at a random all grain recipe for an IPA that had batch size listed as 5.5 gallons. When I add their strike water amount to the sparge water, I'm coming in over 8.5 gallons of water. I know there's a little bit of evaporation loss (my 5gallon BK usually yeilds around 4.2 gal wort)...but a whole 3 gallons boiled off? I see pretty standard boil times of 60min and such... Would someone mind slapping me across the face and telling me the obvious answer?
Cheers!

half_whit said:

Lastly, I know there's probably a simple answer to this, but I have to ask anyway. I looked at a random all grain recipe for an IPA that had batch size listed as 5.5 gallons. When I add their strike water amount to the sparge water, I'm coming in over 8.5 gallons of water. I know there's a little bit of evaporation loss (my 5gallon BK usually yeilds around 4.2 gal wort)...but a whole 3 gallons boiled off? I see pretty standard boil times of 60min and such... Would someone mind slapping me across the face and telling me the obvious answer?
Cheers!

Click to expand...

The 5.5 gallons will be the volume that goes into the fermenter. Some of this amount will be lost to trub, so the brewer is hoping to get five gallons into the bottles or keg. Having said this, there are a few other ways that water volume will be lost. Some water volume is lost in the mash tun. The grain simply absorbs it. The actual volume lost to grain absorption will relate directly to the amount of grain in the mash. More grain is more water loss. There will be some loss in the mash tun because the tun might not drain completely. Some water will be lost due to boil off rates and whether the boil is 60 minutes or 90 minutes. Some water is lost to dead space in the boil kettle. Other sources of loss are due to losses in pumps, tubing, and chillers. And the actual amounts lost to these various sources will vary from one system to another, I.e.it will depend on your system as to how much is lost.

So it might be three gallons that is lost but not all of the loss is due to boiling.

I hope that this helps.

Mark

It does help, thank you!
So, to get a larger beer do I up the grain bill or mash the normal amount and try to boil off more water? Wouldn't there be a limit to how much grain can be mashed in a volume of water? I mean, I know I'd have to not put so much in that I overflow the pot but I would think there's a point where the water yells at me and says "DUDE! That's it! That's all the sugar you're getting out of me!"

I've been getting good results mashing between 6-7lb of grain in this pot and still getting the 4.2 gal batch (compensating with a jug of water to make 5).