Stick with extract for fun and beer

I figured I'd add this thread because I know when brewing you want to get more and more technical. I've been brewing off and on for awhile, got into all grain, you know, so I could 'control' the process. My son came along, and with the old lady and I working, I just don't have an 8hr day to destroy the house, so the other day I just bought some DME, grabbed what hops I had in the freezer, a little honey and I had brewed a big hoppy beer AND a mead all while my son napped. Cleaned up my mess while I made him some pasta, kitchen cleaned, day over in a couple hours. +1 to keeping it simple!

I agree. I do both extract and BIAB and am not even considering buying all that extra stuff to "control my process".

I couldnt be happier with BIAB - mashing is pretty fun and low work/anxiety. Mash while mowing the yard or playing with the kids. Less to clean. And the beers have been great!

I've been having fun with partial batches, but that's as far as I want to go. It's too time consuming, more equipment I don't have room for, etc. Sometimes I need to brew and be cleaned up in two hours, sometimes I have time to play with partial mash. It's all good and so is the beer.

I've made some fantastic brews with extract and have been planning to someday soon try all grain. But does it really take 8 hours? What about BIAB? If it really takes that long I may reconsider.


Rev.

Rev2010 said:

I've made some fantastic brews with extract and have been planning to someday soon try all grain. But does it really take 8 hours? What about BIAB? If it really takes that long I may reconsider.


Rev.

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No. I did an AG Scottish 80 the other day in just over 4 hours from heating my strike to clean up. I batch sparge though, its my understanding that fly sparging takes longer.

You can make beer as easy or as difficult as you want to man.

I probably brew for 8 hours. I have to hand crank the crusher and I am still chilling via ice bath which is a PITA. I love killing the day on a brew. To each their own. My favorite part is when you lauter and get to see what it looks like coming out of the tun. I would never go back to extract. To each their own like I say.

Beezy said:

I love killing the day on a brew. To each their own.

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I love brewing myself. Problem for me is I'm also a musician and dedicate a lot of my weekend time to writing/recording etc. So I don't often have as much time available as I'd like and if it takes significantly longer it's not like I could even do it after coming home from work on weeknights. 4 hours as BBKing mentioned seems fine though. 8 is a bit much for me at the moment unfortunately.

Hell, if it were up to me I'd brew for a living - well second to having a successful music career of course


Rev.

Rev2010 said:

I love brewing myself. Problem for me is I'm also a musician and dedicate a lot of my weekend time to writing/recording etc. So I don't often have as much time available as I'd like and if it takes significantly longer it's not like I could even do it after coming home from work on weeknights. 4 hours as BBKing mentioned seems fine though. 8 is a bit much for me at the moment unfortunately.

Hell, if it were up to me I'd brew for a living - well second to having a successful music career of course

Rev.

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I just gave up my music career. I ran a label even for 3 years. All kinds of time for brewing now!

Rev2010 said:

I've made some fantastic brews with extract and have been planning to someday soon try all grain. But does it really take 8 hours? What about BIAB? If it really takes that long I may reconsider.

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I do Partial Mash, BIAB, and it takes me about 5 hours from start to cleaned up. I'm sure there is time that could be taken out, but I have become comfortable with my process, and don't want to rush it; I'd probably start missing things.

When rushed, I'll occasionally do a steep/extract/late hop process (30 minute boil) and it can take as little as 2 hours from start to finish. .... well maybe 2.5 hours.

If I could have gotten fresh extract and yeast when I started brewing I may have stuck with it, but that wasn't the case.. I've been brewing AG for 15 years now and can't see any reason to ever go back, with one exception. I have the stuff to brew a batch of GF beer for a friend, it will be all extract.

I moved out of my parents house (where i had the room to do AG) into an apartment. I have been enjoying the simplicity and ease of extract brewing, but i still miss my mash tun sometimes.

It's all about good beer and how you spend your day.

I've grown fond of extract brwing and after amy frist few batches have no need to make the leap to AG at this tie..I'd rather not add to the beer brewing budget to keep the wife happy with limiting my spending

I am still having fun with the extract. Taking baby steps and exploring the world of brewing. LME or DME? Secondary or not to secondary? Fruits, coffees, or other additives? There is just too many things to play with right now to worry about getting over my head or spending the extra money to go all grain.

I don't have the space or time to go all grain, so it's strictly extract/Partial Mashing for me. I enjoy both processes, and the beer has been great.

I love, love, love AG brewing and don't think I'd ever go back (though I have been toying with doing some stovetop extract experiments). However, I've gotten my process to the point of real refinement, and I still can't get from heating strike water to cleanup in less than six hours. I think the only way I could would be to buy a more powerful burner & wort chiller.

VillageBrew said:

I am still having fun with the extract. Taking baby steps and exploring the world of brewing. LME or DME? Secondary or not to secondary? Fruits, coffees, or other additives? There is just too many things to play with right now to worry about getting over my head or spending the extra money to go all grain.

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Lets not even get on the topic of yeasts, that's something I really need to spend the time getting to know.

I've tried a few BIABs, and it's OK, but I'd just as soon use that extra hour and a half on something else. There are so many great Northern Brewer kits I have to get through that I know I'll be drinking some great beer for a long-time coming, and it's pretty foolproof.

Partial mash is enough control for me for now. I am building a garage and some of the design will be around brewing (lol) so I am keeping AG in mind but for being limited to your kitchen extracts/steeping grains works great.

I do both, I started this thread because there's a lot of us start simple, but envy the big shiny brew sculptures and all grain, when I realized when pressed for time, boiling up some DME on the stove, throwing some hops in, warming some honey, adding water, and finishing up both before my son woke up? That's a great brew day! I'll do all grain again, next week in fact, but man, is it nice to take a quick and easy route and have good beer bubbling away.

I don't understand why people are saying it takes more $$ to go AG. I have only brewed 8 (all LME and DME) batches, and I have already started buying in bulk (50# DME). The cost of ingredients has been a big factor in my research for going AG. Obviously, you have to buy a few more pieces of equipment, but for someone like me who is brewing every week, it seems like the price of ingredients would pay for itself really quick. I have been planning to try and convert an old cooler, and buy a propane burner ever since I learned the cost of a 50# bag of grain. I know that the process is longer, and has its own challenges.. But my last batch brewed included enough DME that it seemed like I was on permanent hot break for 60 minutes by the time I got it all in there... It was annoying. The way I see it, AG should be cheaper, but a little more time/work. Am I right?

You are right, at least from everyone's responses I've seen in the past. I've not yet done an AG batch, heck I started brewing less than a year ago and took a break over the summer due to too high temps in the house to ferment. From what I gather there's some more equipment but overall the supplies are cheaper so in the even short run AG is cheaper.

However, I've never compared bulk extract to bulk grain costs but I'm pretty sure bulk grain is cheaper, it has to be - extract includes the service charge for the conversion no? Makes sense really.

My thinking though is some of the bulk cost of brewing for me is yeast. If I get into harvesting yeast I can save the most money overall. Either way, extract or AG I am saving a bunch more money brewing at home as opposed to buying commercial brew.


Rev.

mlanoue said:

I've tried a few BIABs, and it's OK, but I'd just as soon use that extra hour and a half on something else. There are so many great Northern Brewer kits I have to get through that I know I'll be drinking some great beer for a long-time coming, and it's pretty foolproof.

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Create your own recipes, buy the ingredients in bulk and your batches will be half the cost of buying kits.

I'm anal about keeping track of costs, and I run about $18 for 5 gallons of beer with an OG of 1.058. That includes costs of yeast, sanitizer, caps, priming sugar, etc. What do kits cost you?

I Partial Mash for convenience, and it allows me the flexibility to use a lot of grains that are not normally available to the extract brewer, but brew a smaller volume. I estimate it takes me 5 hours to brew. Last Saturday I timed it, and from start (going to get the brew pots) to cleaned up and everything put away it me took 4 hours 45 minutes.

I live in an apartment and I do kits both "Partial Mash" and "Extract + Steeping Specialty Grains." I've been satisfied with the end results however I've been striving to get more complexity in the end result flavor as compared to commercially available microbrews.

Extract, especially LME adds a certain flavor thats prevalent in a lot of my brews even the partial mash ones but my friends don't seem to notice much. I think I do, being that I am the brewer.

At my LHBS, I get LME for $2.40 a pound. Pale malt runs about $1.50 a pound. Depending on mash efficiency it takes, what, 30% more grain than LME, so if I used 6 pounds of LME ($14.40) I'd need to use 7.8 pounds of grain instead ($11.70).

So on just ingredients, for a relatively normal batch I'd save about $3.00 going all grain.

Of course, that doesn't count the cost of the equipment. If I had a spare cooler to convert to a mash tun, 10 gallon pot (for the extra volume), propane burner (can't really expect to do a full 5+ gallon boil on top of the stove), it might make sense. Figuring you'd spend at least $100 on mashing and boiling equipment (and that's figuring pretty cheap), that's about 35 batches to break-even.

But what of buying grain in bulk? At my LHBS, a 50 pound bag of malt runs 10 cents a pound cheaper than buying by the pound. At that price difference, it's not worth buying a mill and a tubs to store bulk grain.

So whether it makes sense economically to go all grain depends on the price of your ingredients and what you'd pay for the equipment.

when i switched from extract to AG, by brew day went from 3 1/2 hrs to roughly 5 hrs, give or take. I have to say, even thought it is a little more involved, it is a lot more fun. I had a ton of fun doing extract, but it would be hard for me to go back I think.

I think that all grain, to me at least, was more expensive because of all the cool gadgets, gizmos and toys, not necessarily ingredients. Homebrewing at first seems frugal, but a bigger kettle, a chiller, thermometers. . .all cool toys. I've been eyeing up refractometers, which would be a good buy because of all the hydrometers I break.

I found a guy on youtube when he uses extract he just heats his water and stirs the extract with no boil. Not sure if thats the safest way to brew but he swears by it. I do AG and it takes me about 4-6 hours. I think I will not use extract any time soon. AG is super fun. Well brewing in general is AWESOME! Extracts are good if you don't have the time or patients for a AG batch. Plus I find in my area AG is way cheaper then extract brewing.

I'm in the process of making the jump from extract to AG right now, its been a little costly trying to get all the equipment. But since i only started brewing a few months ago and have been continuously draining my wallet, so its hard to tell where initial costs end and AG costs begin:cross:. I'm as thirsty for all the tasty beer as i am for the knowledge and experience so its hard for me to not keep upgrading. It definitely helps that my SWMBO doesnt live with me and shes still in the "Do what you want i support you" denial mode... im taking advantage of that and getting all my toys as soon as i want them... I dream of the day when i walk into my brewing supply room and can scoop out pounds of whatever grains i decide to use (probably on a random whim), start my process, and RSBHAHB!!!

.... Addicted? Yes....

I will probably never go into all grain. I prefer the ability to do partial boils inside and with the NY winters, I don't want to freeze my butt off outside! One of my neighbors does all grain and simply does not brew during the winter. I'd never! Also, my free time is limited, and I'd rather not spent that much time on anything.

I just got done doing a full boil inside on the stove. No freezing for me. All grain inside = no problem.

WhineinAlbany said:

I will probably never go into all grain. I prefer the ability to do partial boils inside and with the NY winters, I don't want to freeze my butt off outside! One of my neighbors does all grain and simply does not brew during the winter. I'd never! Also, my free time is limited, and I'd rather not spent that much time on anything.

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I've only brewed outside once- about 5 years ago. I always brewed right in my kitchen, but I have a great gas stove that can easily boil 6.5 gallons of wort! I brewed on that system until Jan. 2010 when I got my bigger system. It's still indoors though! Our winters are super cold, dark, and snowy, and our spring and falls aren't much warmer! I'd never brew if I had to do it outside.

Old system (very very cheap!):


New system (not cheap but very convenient!):


I think one of the things that makes homebrewing great is that you can make Cooper's kits, or you can geek out with a single tier HERMS and it doesn't matter a bit. As long as YOU are happy with the end product, then there is no pressure to change.

Rev2010 said:

You are right, at least from everyone's responses I've seen in the past. I've not yet done an AG batch, heck I started brewing less than a year ago and took a break over the summer due to too high temps in the house to ferment. From what I gather there's some more equipment but overall the supplies are cheaper so in the even short run AG is cheaper.

However, I've never compared bulk extract to bulk grain costs but I'm pretty sure bulk grain is cheaper, it has to be - extract includes the service charge for the conversion no? Makes sense really.

My thinking though is some of the bulk cost of brewing for me is yeast. If I get into harvesting yeast I can save the most money overall. Either way, extract or AG I am saving a bunch more money brewing at home as opposed to buying commercial brew.


Rev.

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I hear you on the yeast. I just pitch Safale dry and I'm still looking at cutting that cost. I haven't found very much information on the step by step process of saving and reusing yeast yet..

agentEhrman said:

I hear you on the yeast. I just pitch Safale dry and I'm still looking at cutting that cost. I haven't found very much information on the step by step process of saving and reusing yeast yet..

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ask and ye shall receive

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

There are so many great ways to make beer, everyone has their own style that fits their situation. I made the switch to all grain a few months ago and don't think I will ever turn back. I buy my grain in bulk directly from the malt company for less then 50 cents a pound, so I am making pints of beer for less then ever (not that cost is everything). The difference in time to do all grain and extract was only an extra 1.5 hours at most.

I mill my own grain by hand crank, BIAB with sparge and full boil on an electric stove so I can brew all year long. No chilling my beers shaves off another 30 minutes of time and effort making my brew days take 4 hours or less. My current setup and process is consistent (75% eff), low effort and for myself a ton of fun. The more I do it, the better my overall final product becomes.

I'm one of the fairly rare people who go back and forth. I use all grain when I have the time but I do extracts when I have to do an evening brew. As long as I get fresh extract and I'm doing a recipe with common ingredients I don't see a significant difference in the beer (but I'll admit my all grain process isn't top shape yet either.) Frankly I also like the lazier brew days of extract sometimes. It really just depends what I'm looking for from my beer and brew day.

My last AG beer was BIAB and that may make me do all AG more frequently because it was still pretty damn quick and easy. I might actually be able to squeeze a BIAB out after work if I get everything prepped the night before. I may try no-chill with a yeast pitch the next day to cut a little more time off. Very little extra equipment and adds about an hour to an extract with steeping grain brew day... Even so I have a couple of extract recipes that are just too good and too easy to bother with converting.

I don't mean to high jack the thread, but what is this "no chill" that I keep hearing????

VillageBrew said:

I don't mean to high jack the thread, but what is this "no chill" that I keep hearing????

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Heh, I was just gonna ask the same thing. Please do explain this no chill thing, I'm quite curious.


Rev.

The key to happy brewing is brewing how you enjoy brewing. I love the dedicated brew days. Wife takes the boy somewhere once they wake up (usually around dough in time) and I just hang out brewing and drinking. I also took advantage of AHS's sale a while back to get 3 quick extract batches into fermenters. Whatever works and makes you happy. That's what hobbies are for.

I've also done no chill the last 3 batches to test it out. It does cut some time on brew day, but then you still have work to do the next day and the cube to later clean out. I may do it in the future occasionally, but I have a plate chiller on order as well.

No chill is a method of cooling you beer (or not), by allowing it to sit overnight. Some people used specialized airtight 'cubes' to contain their wort in, but for myself I simply place a lid on top of my boil kettle and leave it for around 24 hours until its cooled enough to move it into the fermenter. Down sides is some beers will get bad chill haze, and you need to adjust your hop schedule slightly. Upside is time saved, using less water.

Just like switching to all grain and not looking back, I have switched to no chill and haven't looked back since (6 brews in).

Lots of great info here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/