Another (mostly) stainless HERMS build!

Hey everyone, I am starting my herms build tonight and I figured I'd do a thread documenting my efforts. The rig is based almost entirely off of The Pol's original 10 gallon herms build with a few modification/upgrades to suit my needs. There won't be much (if any) new build material here as I have based the entire build off material on this forum, but I will be glad to answer any questions about the build if anyone asks. To view The Pol's threads where I got most of these ideas use the links below:

New 10 Gallon Herms! Pics!
BLING BLING Electric HERMS Conversion

Alright so picture time:



This is all of the materials I have so far. I have not received a few packages yet. I'll also have a 10g orange rubbermaid water cooler that I'll use as the mash tun, a stirring assembly from McMaster Carr, a SS false bottom and immersion chiller (for the herms coil), and a LG pump.



The heating element I am using is 5500W, I know most will consider this overkill but my thought process was that I'll be doing 10gallon batches and the faster I can get the water/wort up to mash and mashout temps the better. Also since I won't be using an insulated HLT like in The Pol's build I'll have to make up for the heat loss. So I just went with the largest heating element I could find.



The reason I have 4 three peice ball valves and a two peice is because I wanted all three peice valves because they are able to be broken down to clean if needed, but I was nervous about the weight of a ball valve + tri-clamp on the sidewall of the rubbermaid cooler, so I decided on the two peice since its lighter.

More to come later.

UPDATE 8/3/2010: Got my rubbermaid cooler and Mcmaster Carr shipment today:





Managed to drill a few more hole in the keg and install the weldless fittings on the cooler and kettle. Going pretty slow at this point. Hopefully it picks up soon.




More tomorrow!

Okay so I've made a little bit of progress and learned a few things along the way. First I realized that the extra stainless steel tubing I have left over from the cannibalized wort chiller is perfect for making the pick-up tubes for my HLT and kettle. Also getting compression fittings on the coil is not really trivial. Since the coil is bent the stainless is not perfectly round making it pretty tough (at least for me) to get the fitting over the tube. Anyways here are a few more pictures:



Pictures of the input to the mash tun, will be used during recirculation and sparging.


A pic of the herms coil with the fittings attached. Again this was a lot of work for me. I am also a little bit nervous about them leaking. Has anyone had any experience with these stainless fittings? I guess if they do leak I can always have them welded, or maybe even solder would work.





My HLT with everything installed except the pickup tube, waiting for another compression fitting from Bargainfittings.com. All this stuff is kind of losely put in, I havn't really tightened anything down yet since I will have to remove some of it to get in the pickup tube.

Going to get to work on the electronics this weekend. Here is a sketch of the setup. I took this picture from another electric brewery thread in the DIY section of the forum and edited it with pain, I take no credit for the origination of the sketch.

Bump: Added pics.

Nice build so far! Is that HERMS coil resting on the element? I always wondered if they needed support or not...

What's the part number for your stirring setup?

looking great!

Is that a 50'' ss coil?

Are you planning on adding some valves on the herms outlet for the hlt?

Keep us posted!

Hunlock said:

Nice build so far! Is that HERMS coil resting on the element? I always wondered if they needed support or not...

Click to expand...

The HERMS coil is about 1-2 inches above the element and not resting on it. The coil with (or without) the fittings installed is very rigid, it does not bend easily. Once you tighten down the fittings it stays in place and feels very firm. The weak link would be the sidewall of whatever you are installing it into. It is pretty heavy so I definately wouldn't try to mount it this way to a cooler or a thinner vessel.

EMPyre:

6142K49 AC Gearmotor W/Fan, Face Mnt, 100 rpm, 7 in-lbs Torque, 115 VAC $50.34
34935K66 Polypropylene Propeller W/Coated-Steel Shaft Fixed-U, 2-9/16" Propeller Diameter $21.53
6099K22 Stainless Steel One-Piece Set-Screw Coupling 5/16" Bore, 1" Length, 5/8" OD, Without Keyway $12.19

Crap I had forgotton how expensive that stuff was.

Gabrew:

It is a 50ft 1/2" OD SS immersion chiller. I ordered it and a 12" false bottom from midwest supplies.

EDIT: Just realized I ignored your second question Gab. I had no intention of putting valves on the outputs of the herms coil. The way I will be using it I do not think it will be necessary. I DO plan to put valves on both sides of my pump. During a brew session I will never remove the clamps from the input or output of the coil. The only thing that I will be switching is the input to the pump. During mash recirculation the input of the pump will be from the output of the mash tun. When I sparge I will switch the input of the pump from the mash tun to the output of the HLT. I'll use the water in the HLT for sparging. I am sure this would be more clear with an illustration but I hope you get the idea.

If you can think of a function for the valves on the coil please let me know, I may have overlooked something.

Quick update, I was having a hell of a time trying to get the weldless fittings to hold a seal so I had a few welded in. Basicly I had the holes for everything on my HLT except my thermocoupler and my heat element welded in. Guy charged me 40 dollars to do 4 holes for the 1/2inch couplers and one 1/4" hole where my sight glass hoop was. I think the price was more than fair. Heres a few pics:




One thing like about having the fittings welded is I can tighten the hell out of the spigot.

I got my LG pump today and I am really impressed with it. It pumps fine as far as I can tell and is not very loud at all. A bit larger than I was expecting it to be though. I tested my herms coil cause I was nervous about the compression fittings not sealing but I think they are good. What I am scared about now is getting all the npt threads to seal. I had leaks all over the place on all my wet test today which got me a little discouraged. Not worried about the welded fittings anymore but I will have to try to do a good job with the teflon tape and tightening everything down a little harder and hopefully have better results next time.

By the way I have nothing bad to say about bargainfittings and their products. The main reason why I was having so much trouble was cause I overdrilled one of my holes and put the other 2 too low on the keg. Since it was so low the nut didn't make an even seal cause of the rounded edge and woudln't tighten properly. The fittings on my mash tun cooler work great, and all the other nuts and fittings have worked fine. They turned around my orders fast as well, ordered on Thursday and in my mailbox on Saturday, from Texas to Florida for $5.00 you can't really ask for more.

That is about it for now. Hopefully everthing will come together nicely from here on out.

EDIT: I created another thread to discuss an issue I was having at this step. Basically having the nipples for the herms coil welded in created the problem of not being able to attach the coil without additional fittings since I couldn't rotate the coil or the nipple to tighten into a standard coupling. Some good feedback was given about how to solve the problem, the thread is here: Build problem, need some advice!

Thanks...

Another problem thus far with my build:

I cannot get this fitting to seal no matter how tight I tighten the fitting (the female tri clamp fitting to the male swagelok elbow):


I used a decent amount of teflon tape but as I go around and round the drip goes from slow to faster to slower over and over, it seems like maybe there is something wrong with the threads. It doesn't help that I am pumping right into that thread so its naturally being forced through the threads. It is also very difficult to tighten the fitting cause it is a circle and theres no nut for a wrench to hold onto. Do you think if I went around the outer threads at the base with JB weld that it would seal, or would it likely drip through the jbweld? What about aquarium silicon or some other epoxy. Advice is welcome.

You can try using a strap wrench on that but most likely a pipe wrench will be needed to get it tight enough.

BargainFittings said:

You can try using a strap wrench on that but most likely a pipe wrench will be needed to get it tight enough.

Click to expand...

Like a red handled monkey wrench style pipe wrench? I do not own one but looking at the tool I can't imagine it getting tight enough around a round fitting like this. Do they typically work well on round surfaces and if so how, I've never tried, they seem really wobbly looking. I have a pretty huge set of adjustable plyers kind of like number 3 in this pic: http://img2.timeinc.net/toh/i/a/tools/pliers-02.jpg. My girlfriend holds the swagelok fitting with a wrench (so I don't rip it out of the plastic lid) and I have to squeeze and pull like hell to move it just a little. The drip isn't slowing at all so I am thinking it may be the female fitting. The threads in there looked a little funky anyways. I may go ahead and buy another tri-clover female fitting (this time with a wrenchable side) unless I am able to get it to seal through tightening I guess or like I was asking about JB weld or silicone.

Thanks for turning around my union order today, but all my orders have shipped same day so no surprise.

EDIT: Alright well I was getting pretty annoyed with the thing and decided I was just going to take it off and replace it with a new fitting with a damn wrench nut on it. I tried for about 30 minutes swearing up and down "loosening" the thing but it never seemed to get easier. Well turns out I was actually tightening it. Once I realized this I figured I'd give it another try and hook it up to the pump again. This time it sealed tight, go figure. So at this point all the holes in my rig are sealed up tight and there are no leaks. Only need to install the coil with the union from bargainfittings and I will be done with the plumbing. Still need to tackle the electrical, though I expect that to be a little easier.

EDIT 2: Spoke too soon. I used my dremel to sand down the chew marks I left with the wrench and when I put it back in it is showing a tiny leak. It is possible that with the leak being as slow as it is that it just took a while to show and I didn't see it the first time, but I am not sure. I've tried to tighten it but I cannot tighten it anymore with the tools I have, I'd need a much longer leaver arm and something to keep the swaglok fitting from ripping through the other side of the plastic. Figure I will just have to live with it or weld the fitting together. The drip is so slow I figure it may drop once over an hour of mashing, it still annoys me and the fact that the wort will be able to get all the way through the threads can't be good for bacteria growth. Wish I could silver solder I would just do that.

A pipe wrench is designed to grip pipes. They have teeth that dig into the pipe (or in your case, the round part of the triclover fitting) and the tighter you turn it, the tighter it digs into the metal. They work very well but they will put some teeth marks into the fitting.

I would remove it from the lid so you can get a proper grip on the swagelok fitting with a wrench and then use a pipe wrench to tighten down the triclover fitting.

BargainFittings said:

A pipe wrench is designed to grip pipes. They have teeth that dig into the pipe (or in your case, the round part of the triclover fitting) and the tighter you turn it, the tighter it digs into the metal. They work very well but they will put some teeth marks into the fitting.

I would remove it from the lid so you can get a proper grip on the swagelok fitting with a wrench and then use a pipe wrench to tighten down the triclover fitting.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I will be removing it from the lid tonight. I tightened it down nicely and it wasn't leaking so I was trying to avoid having to remove it. Thanks for the feedback.

Is that a street elbow or a compression elbow that you are trying to use the treads off of? I'm not totally sure but I think where the compression nut goes is straight tread while what you are trying to put on is NPT (tapered).

When I put my coupler with no place for a wrench, I used channel locs with plastic guards on them. I was able to get it tight enough without marring the coupler.

Bigscience said:

Is that a street elbow or a compression elbow that you are trying to use the treads off of? I'm not totally sure but I think where the compression nut goes is straight tread while what you are trying to put on is NPT (tapered).

When I put my coupler with no place for a wrench, I used channel locs with plastic guards on them. I was able to get it tight enough without marring the coupler.

Click to expand...

It is a street elbow. Now that you mention it I am not certain that it is a NPT threaded elbow. It is swagelok and it has NPK punched on the side of it, though I am not sure what the NPK stands for.

Okay so a quick update. Yesterday I bought some RTV silicone from autozone and gave the outside of my leaking thread a coat of it. While that was curing I started cutting into my PVC junction box. I was trying to use my dremel as a router to do the job but the PVC was tough and controlling the dremel wasn't easy. I got 2 holes in it and decided I would wait till I could borrow a jigsaw to do the rest. I'll hold on posting pics of the box till it is done. In other news my unions from bargainfittings arrived. A big +1 to them for the quality of their products. 6 dollars each for SS unions and they work like a charm. I installed the npt threaded ends to the coil and the keg using a bunch of teflon tape, tightened down the union mostly by hand and then a little more with a wrench. Keep in mind the union can be hard to get to in the bottom of the keg if you do not give yourself any room against the keg wall.

Right now I've been pumping through the coil and the top of my cooler with the new silicone coating and nothing is leaking. :rockin: I will let it run for about 45 minutes and check to make sure everything is still sealed up.

Now for the latest equipment score... a chest freezer I will be using as a fermentation chamber. A full up freezer is long overdue, I'd previously been using a swamp style rubbermaid container with my old dorm fridge cooling unit submerged with a temp controller. It did the trick but was a pain in the ass to deal with not to mention it annoyed my girlfriend when I had it sitting in the dining room. This freezer wasn't exactly a steal like some bargains but its a good find I think. 8.9cu ft whirlpool chest freezer was posted for $200, I offered him $150 and he took it. I wouldn't call it brand new but it has never been used. He said he bought it a few years ago but never used it. When you open it it has that new smell and is the interior is pristine. Pics:





Anyways that is it for now. All the plumbing is basically done so I really gotta get that junction box done, then I can put on the finishing touches and brew some beer with this bad boy.

Very nice!

I got the panel together a few days ago, was pretty straightfoward with the wiring. Tested it on saturday and it works perfectly, I was very impressed with how well it holds the set point temperature. I used the auber's autotune feature which worked fine.



The build is mostly complete and has all its functionality, but I need to do some finalizing such as attaching the pump to the stand and mounting my filter assembly. Also I need to attach the stirring motor to the keg HLT.

I had some 4 month old ingredients that I decided I would use as the maiden voyage for the system. It was a 5 gallon kit for BM's Cream of Three Crops. This attempt turned into a total fail cause I didn't use any rice hulls and approximately 5 seconds after I doughed in the false bottom was stuck. I gave up on recirculation and mashed the old way, then let it sparge for like 4 hours. It was late by the time I ended the boil and I just left the wort in the kettle with the lid on overnight in the garage. I'll aerate and dump it into a fermentor after work today. I've already ordered 10gal worth of BM's centennial which I plan to brew this weekend and hopefully the recirculation method will work.

Once I get everything assembled on the stand I'll take a final picture of it, may be a few weeks though.

Any update on this, Pat?

THIS IS FANTASTIC

its essentially exzactly what i have been wanting to make for a while, ive just been getting small parts n etc before jumping into it.

Just wondering, do you know how much it has run you? im just wondering how much i should be looking to sink into this thing

cheers

How do you bend the stainless?

Tuna,
As always with these kinds of builds they will nickle and dime you. This build stretched me out to about 1400 dollars and that doesn't include aquisition of the keg.

Ranch,
I am assuming you are referring to the heat exchanger. It is just a 50' 1/2" stainless immersion chiller that I cut to suit my need. Here is a link, says they are out of stock till march 4th.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/stai...ort-chiller-w-garden-hose-fittings-50-ft.html

Klyph,

I've brewed on this thing at least a dozen times since I've last posted on this thread but I havn't actually made any attempts to finalize or improve the project. I have a stand that it doesn't look like I took any pictures of. Maybe sometime this week I will take some pictures of the entire brewstand. Thanks for following. I've watched your thread as well it looks great, and expensive for it's anti-blingness.

patrck17 said:

Pictures of the input to the mash tun, will be used during recirculation and sparging.

Click to expand...

What is the part name for the black flexible drip tube you have in your mash tun?

I believe it's called Loc-line.

klyph said:

I believe it's called Loc-line.

Click to expand...

Thanks

Oskee,
LOC LINE FOR MLT RETURN
10095K45 2 Packs 1’ Of 1/2" Id, Loc-line Any-which-way Coolant Hose

Nozzle,
10095K25 1 Pack 1/2" Diameter Round Nozzle For 1/2" Id, Loc-line Any-which-way Coolant Hose

Its actually blue not black, just a bad picture. Those are McMaster-Carr part numbers.