SE Nebraska Group Buy Round 2

Paid! Now I have yeast, hops and malt to last most of the year.

I need to learn about yeast so I can stop buying it for each batch. That will be the next thing to find in my pile of brew books.

davebstock said:

I need to learn about yeast so I can stop buying it for each batch. That will be the next thing to find in my pile of brew books.

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Just read the sticky under the fermentation forum on washing yeast. Super easy!

BigRedHopHead said:

Just read the sticky under the fermentation forum on washing yeast. Super easy!

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Or read this and you might decide that washing isn't worth it (that whole blog is a great read, FWIW)

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2013/01/yeast-washing-revisited.html

I just ordered some items for a pure O2 setup for oxygenation yesterday. Knowing what I think I know now about yeast cell counts, this gives a lot of flexibility in handling yeast. I can make a starter (liquid), NOT make a starter (dry), re-use old yeast (either making a starter or straight re-pitch depending on amount of yeast and the beer being made), etc.

The easiest way to start re-using yeast is to sanitize some mason jars, rack off primary, then slosh around everything in the bottom of the vessel (to combine) and then pour it into your jars, seal, throw it in the fridge. Most 5g cakes will yield enough yeast for 4 subsequent batches. If they're not stored for extended periods of time, you can simply let them rise to room temp and direct pitch, no starter, no nothing.

tre9er said:

What?! You're not washing yeast?! Dude we need to hang

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I know! I even have some jars and lids.. I have pitched on top of existing cake twice now (bigger bears of similar style) and that has worked well so far..

I just need to start collecting the few strains I use. I know commercial breweries are all over reusing it..

You'd better be careful when you're pitching on top of bigger bears. I'd presume they'd fight back against you at some point.

^^yes!

Thanks for the info. Ive been too busy with obsessing over other details of brewing that I haven't got around to yeast. Ill be ready for next brew day. Looking at 2 weeks from now. Its way too far off...may have to try a week night brew evening before then...
....if anyone has a great wheat beer recipe, let me know!

I brew at the spurs of the moment all the time. Guess I'm not that super calculated guy... that's why I love having software or formulas to help me put together recipes on the fly. Try the hoegaarden recipe from this site. Its pretty good if done right. Get WLP 400, oranges, etc and it's pretty easy.

I go even simpler when it comes to wheat beer. 50% 2-row, 50% wheat, some rice hulls, maybe some CaraPils or Cara 10L, and then American hops - Cascade is great, Crystal is good, etc. - to about 12 IBU bittering, ~30 IBU including the later additions. Wyeast 1010 American Wheat or heck, just S-05 dry.

davebstock said:

Thanks for the info. Ive been too busy with obsessing over other details of brewing that I haven't got around to yeast. Ill be ready for next brew day. Looking at 2 weeks from now. Its way too far off...may have to try a week night brew evening before then...
....if anyone has a great wheat beer recipe, let me know!

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I like the 3F's Gumballhead recipe if you can afford the amarillo hops. There are several versions of this recipe running around. I personally like it without caravienne and instead use aromatic and a bit of carapils.

http://brew365.com/beer_three_floyds_gumballhead.php

That's a nice lookin' recipe. I have 6oz of Amarillo that I do want to use up while it's still mighty fresh. Hmmmm. Got that rollin' around in the noggin' now...

Is the us-05 decent? For $3.30 each it would cut costs down.

I've heard a few folks say they don't like S-05 - or they don't like Safale in general - but I totally dig it. S-05 and S-04 are my go-to keep-in-the-fridge yeasts. I do like me a bit of Nottingham once in a while, too. I even save my S04/S05 yeast cakes for re-use, too! That *really* cuts the cost down!

My experience is that S-05 will ferment smooth and clean as long as you keep it away from above the 70F mark. 64-68 seems to be the sweet spot with my past batches. But I do not exactly have the most scientific setup, and rely on general house temperatures / allow fluctuation.

The US-05 is a champ. I've heard very few people put up any real argument pitting it up against liquid versions of the same strain. So, it's cheaper, you get way more viable cells per purchase, and it's the same strain! Do it!

davebstock said:

Is the us-05 decent? For $3.30 each it would cut costs down.

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My house yeast. I save the cakes for many generations. Versatile

05 = Greatness! 04 = The KC Cheifs (disappointing). My experience with S04 is it has to be fermented on the cooler side of the range (i.e. 60-65 degrees). When S04 gets a bit warm it throws off some serious esters that are not good. There is a couple of threads on here about why people hate/don't like S04 so its just not me. US05 on the other hand has always been solid performer. But when I want a spectacular IPA I tend to go for WY1056 as I believe it ferments a bit cleaner. )05 can also get fruity up around 70 degrees.

BigRedHopHead said:

05 = Greatness! 04 = The KC Cheifs (disappointing). My experience with S04 is it has to be fermented on the cooler side of the range (i.e. 60-65 degrees). When S04 gets a bit warm it throws off some serious esters that are not good. There is a couple of threads on here about why people hate/don't like S04 so its just not me. US05 on the other hand has always been solid performer. But when I want a spectacular IPA I tend to go for WY1056 as I believe it ferments a bit cleaner. )05 can also get fruity up around 70 degrees.

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Wy 1056, us05, WLP001 are basically all the chico strain, from what I've been told, but you'll hear people having slightly different experiences with each. Psychological or not? I've only used 05. Always clean but I always control ferment temperatures too

Sounds like the 05 will be a good yeast to use while getting brewing techniques down. I'll give it a shot on the next brew!

New on HB talk. Does anyone ever do group buys on carboys?? I think it can be done. Or is there another preferred fermentation method that is easier to come by and affordable??

Tackleberry said:

New on HB talk. Does anyone ever do group buys on carboys?? I think it can be done. Or is there another preferred fermentation method that is easier to come by and affordable??

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Ale pails work just fine. Also larger HDPE containers on eBay

I am hopin we can get a group buy organized on the kegs. I really want a few more to use for force carbing mead, hard lemonade, and to lager in since they fit in my basement fridge so well.

Stovetop535 said:

I am hopin we can get a group buy organized on the kegs. I really want a few more to use for force carbing mead, hard lemonade, and to lager in since they fit in my basement fridge so well.

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Me too. Hard to keep pipeline with limited kegs. I like to condition in kegs but only have 3. If I had a few more I could move beers off yeast as soon as they hit FG and yeast health would improve for harvests. Frees up a fermenter too.

Are we still shooting for March 2nd for grain pick up/distribution?
Thanks,
Keith

Paid. I Didn't get an email and just now decided to check out this thread. My bad.

freeokw said:

Are we still shooting for March 2nd for grain pick up/distribution?
Thanks,
Keith

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I'm hoping so. Order should be placed today if the vendor doesn't have issues with this storm (he's in KC). I've asked him to let me know ASAP when he has a delivery ETA.

FYI
Regarding a group buy on kegs, This guy is located near Chicago and offers group/club discounts on orders over 30 kegs. His name is Scott Graves <[email protected]>
I have no cnnection to him other than being on his mailing list.
Here's a recent email I received from him.

Good news fellow home brewers

I will have a new shipment of 1600 cornies available in Mid March, pre-orders are being taken now, just email me and let me know how many to hold for you, It took me three months to be able to acquire, a load this size, and prices are skyrocketing, most brew shops and online retailers, if they have them are charging $60 and up, I'm going to be charging $55, plus shipping. Local Chicago orders are always available for pick up. So please include your zipcode for an accurate shipping quote . These will be coming to me pressurized already, so I will ship them to you that way and supply you a set of 5 new o-ring with each keg ordered a $5 value in its own right.

I hope this finds you and your brews all well.


The last lot I had this size sold out in under 8 weeks, and used cornies are disappearing at an alarming rate as our beloved hobby has become more popular in the last few years, Please order accordingly, and plan for the future as well.

discounted pricing is available on lots of 30 or more, and I'm more than happy to come to Chicagoland based brew club meetings to do sales there, just send me an email.


SWG

OOF. I'm looking at about $40-45 each including freight from Florida.

$55 per, before shipping? Noooope. Guess I'll stick to the kegs I have. If I run out, wellp, guess it's time to step up to sankey kegs instead?

dpatrickv said:

Paid. I Didn't get an email and just now decided to check out this thread. My bad.

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No, that's mea culpa. I thought I had everyone on the email thread and left you off :smack:

SHould know by tomorrow on delivery date, but looking like next week. Snowstorm could cause a bit of a delay.

I realize everyone most likely already spent their allowance on grain but I will bring it up anyway.....I would really like to try and get something together on kegs if people are interested. The 3 I currently have just are not cutting it. Maybe I will call Midwest and see if they are planning in running any promotions in the near future for their kegs. I got my last round from them for 25 per keg plus shipping.

I have been following this thread and would love to get some kegs in the $30-$40 range. Also, how often do you all do group buys? Finally, are there ever any in Omaha? Thanks for the info and let me know what people can get on keg deals too.

BSDrews said:

I have been following this thread and would love to get some kegs in the $30-$40 range. Also, how often do you all do group buys? Finally, are there ever any in Omaha? Thanks for the info and let me know what people can get on keg deals too.

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We had a number of Omaha guys in on this group buy. I think it happens a couple times a year.

Stovetop535 said:

I realize everyone most likely already spent their allowance on grain but I will bring it up anyway.....I would really like to try and get something together on kegs if people are interested. The 3 I currently have just are not cutting it. Maybe I will call Midwest and see if they are planning in running any promotions in the near future for their kegs. I got my last round from them for 25 per keg plus shipping.

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Feel free to do some homework. I emailed McEver and got some hemming and hawing. Here's what I got:

Shipping 20 tanks to your location will cost $130. Let me know what you think and have a great day! We have A grade ball locks that start out at $40 and we are waiting to see if we will have B grade ball locks which would start out at $32.99. We also have pin locks in stock for $28.99 or pin locks with a manual release valve for $32. We can work a little on the pricing if your doing 20 and take off about $1 off each tank price.

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So the "A Grade" tanks would come out to $45.50 shipped for 20 tank order. I asked some more questions, but as has been my experience in the past, if you reply to the same email more than about twice, they stop replying back for some reason.

What frustrates me is that I got two tanks for $91 shipped off McEver in the past. These prices should be cheaper at 20 tanks. Maybe we need to do 30 tanks, IDK. I know they double-stack kegs on pallets, but how many will fit on a pallet? Most pallets are 40x48. Kegs are what, 8" diameter? that's 5x6, so 30 per layer. I'll try a new email today.

I called a few places, best I got was we could help a little on shipping. Well at $50-55 per keg, I would rather go to the lhbs. I think they charge about $65 for their kegs. You would think places would be willing to help out a little on a larger order like that.

I sent a couple emails out as well, we will see if it goes anywhere.

I mean, I *guess* 44.50 each isn't bad.

We can already get $50/keg prices from places like this, no waiting or planning needed: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002KI118K/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 - even this Refurbished 4-Pack goes for less than $60/keg before shipping - http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/empty_kegs/refurbished_kegs/4X-KEG-RE5-BL-PV.shtml - basically, as the customer, If I go through the effort to buy as part of a group, I'm expecting the group will receive a stellar discount, not just a buck or two.

Used kegs are getting to be expensive enough that I'm considering buying some of these instead - http://www.beveragefactory.com/draftbeer/home_brew/kegs/KEG-5GAL-NSH_ball_lock_keg.html - if you buy a 2-Pack or 4-Pack, they drop the price accordingly. The 4 pack goes for 324.99 right now for brand new kegs... only $81.24 each before shipping...

Bah... I should stop being a grouch today... it's just inflation... should've picked more up when I had the chance to do it cheaply. At least I got the ones I did.

McEver says they're out of ball-locks right now but mentioned "single handle" ball-locks. As usual, I replied and didn't get a response. I'll send ANOTHER new email today about the single handle ones (might be like the ones that have been for sale on other sites, usually for $30 or cheaper). I could care less how many handles they have, if any, at this point. I just need it to hold pressure. I have 3 tanks with handles already, but I need more storage ability.

I don't care as long as the dimensions are similar and the parts are compatible. If it means I would need to buy new parts then I would most likely be out but thanks for checking and keep us posted!

Moving back to that saving yeast conversation...

I tried that today and I got what looks to be almost all trub in my jars. Maybe I picked a bad batch, or did something a little wrong.

For starters, I used a batch of lager yeast that I re-pitched on already. I dump everything from the kettle right into my fermenter. I don't whirlpool, and don't use anything to seperate my hop pellets.

I followed the insructions on the site Tre listed, immediately after siphoning, I swirled the cake/trub around, and then poured it into 3 of the smaller mason jars. This was roughly half of the trub in the bucket, it was very thick and greenish brown. It doesn't appear to be seperating much at all after a couple hours in the refrigerator.

I'm wondering where I went wrong here. Did I siphon too much liquid out of my fermenter to get seperation? I tend to be pretty efficient at this, I would say I never leave more than about 2-3 ounces of beer behind. Or, did I get such a thick trub because I don't whirlpool and leave behind the gunk in the kettle? Or is it simply because I had 2 batches worth of trub in the fermenter? Maybe a combo of all these reasons, lol.

I was hoping someone with experience using this method could give me a little insight. Tre?

A noteworthy detail might be that my original pitch was 2 packages of rehydrated Saflager 34/70 into 1.057 Marzen. After a couple weeks and fermentation died, I pitched a Dopplebock of 1.080 directly in after siphoning out the Marzen.

Should I even keep the jars of sludge?

There is yeast in there. You probably DO have a lot of trub/hop gunk because of the aforementioned "dumping straight into fermenter" method, but that doesn't mean you don't have healthy yeast, too. Settling into layers takes quite some time for thick trub-y yeast cakes. I have some that haven't really separated much, either, but you can tell the white/off-white color indicates yeast, green specks are hops and brown or darker specks are grain trub.

The presence of trub has very little, if any, effect on the next beer. The hops have served their purpose and have nothing really left to contribute, so I doubt you'll notice them in the next beer. The trub has nutrients and such that the yeast will not mind.

The key here is knowing that you have a lot of non-yeast. That means you need to use a tool like Mr. Malty and slide the non-yeast % to a high number. It will then tell you (in the repitch from slurry tab) how much of the thick slurry (not the beer-colored liquid) you need for a new batch of beer. I'd pitch slightly more than it recommends though because you came from a big beer where the higher ABV likely killed some yeast.

At any rate if you oxygenate properly and pitch enough of the harvested yeast, you'll be fine, and really, I've yet to have any real issues with off flavors even when I think I've underpitched, under oxygenated, etc. I think getting close or slightly over is the key, you just don't want to severely under/over pitch.