safale s-04 slow fermentation?

I am not familiar with the safale yeasts, this if the first time I pitched one after using white labs liquid and danstar notty exclusively for my ales. I have heard such good things about this yeast that I decided to pitch one into a 1.070 OG IPA. I rehydrated the yeast for 15 minutes in 80 degree water and pitched this yeast into my wort at 75 degrees.

After 24 hours I am finally seeing airlock bubbles but one ever 5 minutes or so. Not a vigorous fermentation at all. The internal temp of the fermenter is sitting at 66 degrees constant. Do you think this yeast will give good fermentation attenation at this temp? The notty has always been such a vigorous ferementer that i am not used to something this subdued. Is this normal?

Every time I use it, it is very slow. It takes me almost 3 weeks at 65-70F to get to my terminal gravity.

I use S04 on my stouts and they are fierce ferments. I wouldnt worry about your bubbling. S04 ferments quickly and drops out quickly. If you've got krausen, then dont worry so much. I dont know if I've ever used it on a beer that high, but maybe someone else will chime in.

I just checked and there is no krausen to speak off.

I usually ferment ales at 70-75 and they turn out a little estery and wild tasting with the notty..this one I am keeping at 66-68 and I am hoping that the yeast doesn't become a major player..I want the hops and the malt to shine in this one.


I am very close to dumping a pack of US-05 in there. Do you think that is a good idea?

I would just leave it. I mean, S-05 is clean and ferments faster IMHO... but there is no need. This will ferment, but like I said, when I use it, it is VERY slow and not a real show stopper.

Well if I remember correctly, I think s04 attenuate a bit less than s05. I use it on stouts cuz I prefer a bit of natural sweetness to be left over . I agree with Pol , it will take about 3 weeks, but after those 3 weeks, it will be pretty clean. You wont get any yeast movement on the bottom. Last week I accidentally dropped the autosiphon on the yeast cake and saw no yeast come through the line.

I vote leave it be for teh night and you will have mad kreusen by morning. I use 04 a bit and have had anxiety a couple times, but it always has kicked in, fermented fierce, and dropped well. Lately it is my go to yeast as I feel 05 was attenuating a bit much and not leaving enough behind for my taste.

US-04 is incredibly reliable for me, and it drops like a stone after the ferment is over. Makes a fine ordinary bitter, two weeks grain to glass.

I just checked, there is just a little foam on the top and no krausen at all. Pretty crazy for over 24 hours and using proper rehydration/pitching technique. I'll check in the morning. I wonder if I should stir it up or give the fermenter a shake? Maybe try and get the party started!

well, I couldn't take it anymore. I aerated and sprinkled a pack of US-05 on the top. Clearly the S-04 wasn't going to "take off". I hope this works.

everytime i've used us05 it's taken about 24 hours to see light bubbling in the airlock.
there will be some bubbles forming on the top of the beer.
thick krausen after 48 hours and vigorous airlock activity.
my beers finish in about 5 days from the date of pitching.

what you were experiencing seemed normal.

My problem was with S-04 not US-05. There wasn't much going on now after 29 hours. My research indicated that this was not normal for this yeast. Rather than risk my brew, $50 in ingrediants, I figured a $2.50 pack of yeast is nice insurance. I know that either yeast would have given me a great result so I have a feeling that they will work nicely together....since i have a fairly high-OG I think having a lot of yeast in there is a good thing.

Well, last night I aerated and threw some US-05 right on top. I have good fermentation going this morning. I am not sure if the S-04 finally took off or if the US-05 is just that fast, either way things appear to going on a slow but steady pace. A bubble once every minute or so. Slow and steady wins the race to clean tasting beer.

You definitely jumped the gun. 1.070 is a fairly high OG and the yeast were still adapting to those wort conditions.

flyangler18 said:

You definitely jumped the gun. 1.070 is a fairly high OG and the yeast were still adapting to those wort conditions.

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Agreed. I have S04 in a stout right now, and in one week it's dropped from 1.053 to 1.021. I never did get a ton of bubbling in the airlock, but the drop is very real (and it's going to be a great stout, if the first hydrometer sample is any indication). The only reason I even bothered to take the SG is because I had it in an area that turned out to get COLD this past week, and I didn't realize it. I wanted to make sure it was fermenting. It was under 58 degrees, but still fermenting. I did bring it back into an area that is in the mid-60s, to finish up.

For an OG of 1.070, you could have pitched two packages at the beginning. Since you didn't, it would take about a day just for the yeast to reproduce before getting busy on fermentation.

S-05 won't hurt anything of course, but it wasn't necessary. Sometimes waiting it out is the hardest thing to do!

YooperBrew said:

S-05 won't hurt anything of course, but it wasn't necessary. Sometimes waiting it out is the hardest thing to do!

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Waiting it is very hard!

Next time I use S-04 I think I am just going to pitch it and walk away for a week and take hydrometer reading. Now that I think of it, the last 1.070 or so gravity brew that I pitched took about 48 hours to get going. I need to be more patient! At least I pitched another good yeast in there!

S-04 slow?????????

I can have an average bitter (1.042) done and be drinking it in 2 weeks

babalu87 said:

S-04 slow?????????

I can have an average bitter (1.042) done and be drinking it in 2 weeks

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It appears as if they are saying, and I am experiencing, slower start ups to fermentation of S-04 in higher gravity brews. 1.042 vs 1.070 or higher. They are saying it is taking the yeast longer to get acclaimitated to the super sweet wort and start reproducing.

flyangler18 said:

US-04 is incredibly reliable for me, and it drops like a stone after the ferment is over. Makes a fine ordinary bitter, two weeks grain to glass.

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+1. I have had zero problems with S-04. It goes like crazy for me at about 66* and attenuates like an SOB. My last two beers, the Shiver Me Bitters memorial brew and a pumpkin ale I just took an FG reading on, gave me 76% and 81% attenuation, respectively, and the beers are very clean.

I think its a great yeast for those of us that donot sencondary. 3 weeks in primary and siphoning out to keg is super easy with no yeast pickup. On my last stout, the yeast cake almost dumped out completely in one piece.

May I ask what pitching protocol you guys have used succesfully with the S-04? I rehydrated for 15 minutes and pitched.

i just wait for the wort to reach ferment temps or get just a bit cooler and pitch the yeast directly in...no rehydration. that's with us05 not 04, though i'd think their characteristics would be similar.

cookietruck said:

i just wait for the wort to reach ferment temps or get just a bit cooler and pitch the yeast directly in...no rehydration. that's with us05 not 04, though i'd think their characteristics would be similar.

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Do you shake it up or stir it at all afterwards?

For ales up to around 1.050, I just open the envelope and drop it in after aerating the wort sufficiently. Truthfully, I don't use dry yeast often - but always have a few sachets in stock when the brewing bug bites and I've not had enough time to grow yeast up from a slant or a washed slurry.

I've rehydrated a few times in the past, but never noticed any differences in flavor or attenuation vs. a direct dry pitch for low to moderate gravity ales.

permo said:

Do you shake it up or stir it at all afterwards?

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the only aeration is from my wort chiller when i'm cooling the wort down. that gets the temp to about 85*, i place the fermenter in the ice bath overnight and pitch in the morning usually at about 57-60* and i let it ferment at about 63*.
i just make sure and sprinkle the yeast all over trying to avoid any heavy spots that would clump up.
it takes a day to get going and then about 4 days fermentation and then it's done.
i leave the beer in primary for a week after that to dry hop and let the yeast clean up a bit and then i bottle. so two weeks total in the primary.

I think I will get my hand on some more S-04 and give it a try on a much lower gravity ale. The US-05 seemed to really go after the 1.070 and start fermenting strongly in less than 8 hours. No rehydration or anything.

it was probably the s04 just starting up.

cookietruck said:

it was probably the s04 just starting up.

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You are probably right, at least there will be enough yeast to get the job done!!

Yeah wow, add me to the ranks of the confused. I've never used S-04 on a high gravity brew, but when I've used it it's taken off like a rocket and often reached FG in around 36 hours! S-04 has always been my go-to yeast for when I'm too damned impatient to wait for a liquid yeast to do its thing.
Maybe it's the rehydration. I've never done more than just sprinkle the yeast directly from the envelope.

I'll chime in with my recent S-04 experience.

I dropped two 11g packets onto my 1.081 OG RIS with wort temp at 70*, and when I came back home 18 hours later I had not just fermentation, but very active blow-off as you can see in my video below.

4 days after pitching my gravity was at 1.029. I'm going to leave it in primary for 3 weeks total then bottle.

I use S-04 in my house stout all the time. Ferments in just under a week, every time (1.049-1.015ish). Patients man.

i think you should wash the yeast from this batch and have a nice s-04/us-05 hybrid yeast 05 attenuation with 04 speed & flocculation would be shweet.

it's been 1.5 weeks and I am at 1.023. I think at this point it will be drinkable. the excess sweetness will be balanced by my 70+ IBU. I wouldn't be suprised if it finishes in the 1.017-1.018 range. I hope so anyways. I think I am going to start using nottingham more consistintly in my ales. If you can control the temperature it is a very clean and consistently attenuating yeast that drops like a rock. 100's of brittish brewers can't be wrong.

you slightly underpitched w/ just one packet and like others said, the s-04 yeast needed a while to replicate to tackle it.
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

i use s-04 all the time and it works great, but haven't done a 1.070 beer.

i made ~10 gal double ipa batch with s-04 with a OG=1.088 and FG=1.022. it took about five days to finish out and about 12-24 hrs to really get going. i just sprinkled the yeast into the fermenters. i used 02 and one packet/5gal.

adjusted for temp I am now at 1.0219. That still isn't a huge drop for a week and a half using a starter, ferementing at 68 degrees and mashing at 150-151. My temperature gague is dead on too. I am going to leave this beer on the cake for another 2.5 weeks so I am hoping to get it into the high teens but I am not too hopefull.

I wish to chime in here and give my experience on SO4.

I have never used this particular yeast in the past because I am a novice brewer (only 5 batches under my belt). So I am making a Belgian trippel (high gravity stuff) OG at about 1.084-86 and the HBS told me to take a half gallon of water after boiling it for 10 minutes (well since I was using local grocery purified water, I just heated it for maybe five minute under a rolling boil), then add one cup of DME, then shake it and let it sit for 12 to 24 hours. I did this and after about 20 hours I did not see any krausen, or bubbles.

I then pinched on to my wort and hoping for the best. This morning I see a little airlock activity, but nothing special. I am hoping that after the yeast gets use to the high gravity everything will be alright. Also the wort last night was at about 65f and this morning the temperature was at about 70f. I did not hydrate as I normaly would with wine yeast (71-b)

So, my question is; what is the best way to make a starter. The LHBS is reliable, but in the past when making mead, what I would do is re-hydrate the yeast at about 107f, add 2 ounces of must, after about 20 minutes double the volume and do this several times until and pitch after a few hours. In the future should I use this method (exchange must for wort), or should mixing the yeast with the DME be sufficient be enough?

I have never made a starter with this yeast, just pitch right in(50 or so batches with s-04) and have never had any issue with fermentation. Some are vigerous and go everywhere some are slower just depends on the wort's specs. Last beer I pitched this into was 1.106 barly wine it took it down to 1.020 in 4 days.. made an awlful mess till i put the blow off tube on.

so I think because of the high gravity of this batch, I just needed to be patient on this. Never had a starter do nothing after 22 hours or so and that was cause from some consternation. Early this morning I noticed some bubbles and early this evening I spied more bubbles. Just checked it and its going like mad. So to avoid more trepidation and further concern, I put in a blow-off tube. I have had mead's explode on me before and it can get messy. Better to be safe than sorry. so far so good. Wonder what it will look like in the morning. Special thanks for this thread.:rockin:

flyangler18 said:

US-04 is incredibly reliable for me, and it drops like a stone after the ferment is over. Makes a fine ordinary bitter, two weeks grain to glass.

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Got a good two week biab recipe to share? I need a reliable ready fresh recipe