Man, I love Apfelwein

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I guess a useful question to ask at this point is what yeasts are people using and are they having a sulfur problem ?

Also, what are people doing for racking and do they have a problem ?

I'd like to know this before I start my apfelwein...

Thanks.
 
I use Montrachet and don't have any problems. You will get obvious smells of fermentation for a couple of days, but it clears up pretty quick.
 
I used Montrachet too. I had the sulfer smell when I hydrated the yeast, but after it was in the primary and in my brew closet, I didn't notice the smell unless I was right on top of it - and even then, it wasn't that bad and didn't last long.

...But then again, SWMBO tells me that I don't smell anything unless it's STRONG.
 
Ed: was there any particular reason why you chose Montrachet yeast ?

Anyone have comments on using apple concentrate + water instead of the liquid apple juice ?

Thanks.
 
I really need to get a 3 gallon glass carboy. Mines been in plastic for 16 days now. Hopefully this doesn't hurt it!?


Eh... It's only $9.90 (2.5 gallons) wasted, even if it does...
 
brewman ! said:
Ed: was there any particular reason why you chose Montrachet yeast ?

Since I'm making basically Apple Wine, I used a wine yeast. Montrachet has some good characteristics, it handles the higher alcohol content of my batches, has a neutral flavor and the sediment is very firm sitting at the bottom of my carboy. When I move it to a racking height it does not get stirred up at all.

Most of all, it works in making very authentic German Apfelwein.
 
I just did a shopping run so I can start my apfelwein tonight. I'm hoping it will done around Christmas, 3 weeks from today. Or at least by New Years ! I could filter it if needed.

I bought 24 litres of Sun-Rype unsweetened "Not From Concentrate" 100% pure apple juice. The ingredient list is "Apple Juice, vitamin C". The box says its pasteurized.

I'll be using the yeast variety "Saccharomyces bayanus" by Lalvin. Its what they call a champagne yeast. But its still used for wines. I've used it on a number of fruit wines over the years.

I'm trying to decide how much dextrose to use. I've got 2KG of it (4.4 pounds). I'm brewing 6 gallons. The juice boxes say "Naturally occurring fruit sugars 30g/250ml." That is a bit over an ounce per cup. I wonder how this compares with other juices. The calorie content is 120 calories per 250 ml.

22L x 4 cups per litre = 88 cups 88 cups x 30 g/cup = 2.640KG = 5.8 pounds of "naturally occurring fruit sugars"

Does anyone know what sort of OG that would make ?

Does anyone have info from their juice to compare with ?

Thanks.
 
http://home.iitk.ac.in/~ashishg/hydrometer.htm

According to this, for 8.6% alcohol, we need a SG of 1.065 which is about 1 pound 11 ounces of fermentable sugars per gallon. I have a little less than 1 pound per gallon now. (5.8 pounds per 22 litres) So I need to add about 11 ounces per gallon. I am assuming my apfelwein will ferment to an SG of 1.000, which may be a little bit conservative.

11 ounces/16 x 454g/pound = 312 grams per gallon 312 grams per gallon x 6 gallons = 1872 grams. So nearly the full 2 Kg of dextrose. (4.4 pounds) 1872 grams would be 4.125 pounds of dextrose.

Does anyone see a flaw with this logic ?

If I assume it ferments to 0.990, then I'll have an alcohol content of about 9.9% ! If it goes to 0.990, then I should have a SG of about 1.055 and 1lb 7 ounces of sugar per gallon. 7 /16 x 454 = 200 grams per gallon or 1.2 KG for the batch. 2.65 pounds for the batch.

I'll check the SG of the apple juice before I add the dextrose just to be sure.

I suspect the SG of the various juices differs a bit, depending on how concentrated the juice is, how it is reformulated, etc. The juice I am using is straight from the apple, thus my worry that it is different from what others are using.
 
How clear does it get?

Mine has been in primary for a little over 4 weeks and it's still a bit opaque... I followed Ed's recipe exactly..
 
Jer said:
How clear does it get?

Mine has been in primary for a little over 4 weeks and it's still a bit opaque... I followed Ed's recipe exactly..

It gets pretty clear. The pics up in the thread kind of show what's going on. What temp are you fermenting at? Mine's a room temp.
 
What temp are you fermenting at? Mine's a room temp.

Usually in the mid to high 60's... I did go on vacation for 7 days during the second week and we had the house set at 62...
 
EdWort, I just have to say "Thank you". I read this post about 3 weeks ago (give or take a few days) and went right out to get some supplies. I transferred my 3 gallons of apfelwein this past weekend, and tasted some in the process. This stuff is really fantastic! I'm much more of a beer lover, but I can see myself really getting into this. It's so easy.

In my next batch, I might substitute some honey for part of the sugar (I have some left over from my last batch of Mead). Has anyone ever tried this?

Anyway, thanks for sharing this with us all!
 
I've used honey instead of sugar and it tastes great, but it definitely takes longer. It ferments out just as fast, but I think it needs to age at least a couple of months to peak, depending on how much honey you use.

I can't wait to try this stuff and see how it compares. I have to empty a keg first. Darn.
 
I brewed up my apfelwein tonight. The SG on my juice alone was 1.050. I added 3 pounds of sugar for a 6 gallon batch. The SG with the dextrose was 1.068. This is going to be pretty strong stuff. I didn't measure the SG of the juice alone until after we had added the sugar.

To get the sugar dissolved, we dumped the sugar in the carboy and then heated apple juice in the microwave and added it to the carboy. I'm did this with a BB carboy, btw. It took 4 litres of heated apple juice to absorb the sugar. Lots of stirring.

I hate air locks. The BB carboys flex a bit and change volume when you move them. This action sucked a bit of air lock sterilizer into my must. I hope that doesn't inhibit fermentation or cause off tastes.

The wait begins.
 
what is the difference between using dextrose and table sugar? I've been using table sugar for the last few batches and find the batches very tasty. I am not sure where to get dextrose. Does it affect taste?
 
brewman ! said:
To get the sugar dissolved, we dumped the sugar in the carboy and then heated apple juice in the microwave and added it to the carboy. I'm did this with a BB carboy, btw. It took 4 litres of heated apple juice to absorb the sugar. Lots of stirring.

I hate air locks. The BB carboys flex a bit and change volume when you move them. This action sucked a bit of air lock sterilizer into my must. I hope that doesn't inhibit fermentation or cause off tastes.

The wait begins.

I pour half a gallon of Apple juice into my carboy and then add the pound of dextrose to the half bottle of juice and shake it up good. I repeat with a second bottle. By the time I'm done with the second bottle, the first bottle is already dissolved. (this is why I like dextrose. It dissolves readily). I then shake the second bottle and pour it in. Those two bottles of apple juice added areated juice and extra sugar. I then top off with 3 more gallons and give the Better Bottle a couple of swirls and I'm done.

I use cheap vodka in my airlocks so I if I get suck back on a Better Bottle, I did nothing but boost the abv % :cross:

If you grab the Better Bottle by the neck and put your other hand underneath there is not much flexing.
 
brewman ! said:
I have strong fermentation this morning. Yeah !

yeah Man! It does not take long. The bottle will soon cloud over for a few days and then the yeast will begin to drop and it will clear.
 
yeah Man! It does not take long. The bottle will soon cloud over for a few days and then the yeast will begin to drop and it will clear.

So what are the chances it will be ready for Christmas ? (Fermentation is really vigorous now.)

Keep in mind, I am starting at 1.070 ! Will it ferment dry, like 0.990 ? I guess what I am asking is if these apple juices have any unfermentable sugars.

I pour half a gallon of Apple juice into my carboy and then add the pound of dextrose to the half bottle of juice and shake it up good. I repeat with a second bottle.

My juice came in 1 litre drink boxes. We were going to pour the sugar into a pot and then add hot juice to it, but then my wife suggested we just do it all in the carboy. And it worked out quite well.

Pictures.

http://www.pbase.com/me2001/image/71263607

http://www.pbase.com/me2001/image/71263609

http://www.pbase.com/me2001/image/71263610

http://www.pbase.com/me2001/image/71263623

http://www.pbase.com/me2001/image/71263626
 
So I went grocery shopping today and what did I see? Half gallons of pasteurized, no preservative, not-from-concentrate apple juice for $1.09 each. Well jeez... how could I say no to that? I checked my watch and the LHBS was still open... I'd have time to run over there for yeast... Hmmm....

So that's all there was to it. On a whim... three hours after walking past the apple juice in the grocery store, I have it sitting in the fermenter.

10 half gallons of apple juice
2 lbs dextrose
1 can of concentrated apple juice
1/4tsp of Saigon Cassia Cinammon (renowned for its sweetness)
1/2 tsp Tahitian Vanilla Extract (renowned for its fruity aroma, it's often sold to sorbet manufacturers for fruit sorbets)
1 packet of Red Star Montrachet

Original Gravity is 1.062 which, from what I've read, is right on target!

The only hitch is, when dumping my juices into the carboy, I let a seed get in. At first I thought it was a curled up spider floating on the top (which would've been weird, given how carefully I sanitized everything)... so I grabbed the siphon and sucked up the debris and spit it out. Was relieved to see twas only a seed.


One question though... what's the optimal temperature for Red Star Montrachet? I can keep it in my cold cellar which is a steady 50-57 in the winter (depending on whether the door is kept open or closed), the warm cellar which is 65-69 (that's where it is now), or my bedroom which I can keep anywhere from 65 to 80 (though I'd rather not have it in the bedroom when the elephant farts come around). Any advice is appreciated.
 
Just a comment about using Montrachet yeast.

http://ebrew.com/wine/wine_yeast.htm

"It is not recommended for grapes that have been dusted with sulfur, because of a tendency to produce hydrogen sulfide in the presence of higher concentrations of sulfur compounds."

Potassium Metabisulphite is commonly used as a preservative to prevent cut apples from browning as they are processed.

The Lalvin EC-1118 is recommend for ciders.

"The fermentation characteristics of the EC strain - extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and H2S - make this strain an excellent choice. This strain ferments well over a very wide temperature range, from 45º to 95º and demonstrates high osmotic and alcohol tolerance. Good flocculation and compact lees and a relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution are also properties of the EC strain.
The EC strain is recommended for all types of wines, including sparkling, and late harvest wines and cider. It may also be used to restart stuck fermentations."
 
Toot said:
One question though... what's the optimal temperature for Red Star Montrachet? I can keep it in my cold cellar which is a steady 50-57 in the winter (depending on whether the door is kept open or closed), the warm cellar which is 65-69 (that's where it is now), or my bedroom which I can keep anywhere from 65 to 80 (though I'd rather not have it in the bedroom when the elephant farts come around). Any advice is appreciated.

I do mine around 73 to 76 degrees as it sits in my mud room. This pic was taken on November 18th. Notice the clarity and the dates on the bottles as well as my little wireless thermometer.

16GallonsApfelwein.jpg
 
Here is an interesting article on ciders. I like the discussion on flavorings. Can you tell I am dying to try my apfelwein ?

http://***********/feature/1243.html

"Adding fermentable sugars, such as honey, molasses, maple sugar, piloncillo or brown sugar will produce more complex flavors and a higher alcohol level. Be careful here, though, Iâve sampled ciders with way too much alcohol. Sometimes the higher alcohol level produces an unpleasant hot, burning sensation. Balance is the key word here."

Great ! My apfelwein is going to be 9%+ ABV ! I'm probably going to have to water it down with some apple juice when its done fermenting.
 
brewman ! said:
Adding fermentable sugars, such as honey, molasses, maple sugar, piloncillo or brown sugar will produce more complex flavors and a higher alcohol level.

2 lbs. of dextrose will not affect flavor or body, but will add to the abv % which is the whole reason for it.
 
I never said that the dextrose would affect the flavor or body. My issue is with the alcohol content. I wish I would have used 2 pounds of sugar rather than 3.
 
Ah, DWHAHB,

What's another percent alcohol, hic.. (or two)

I'm sure it will turn out tasty. I did 3 pounds back 7 years ago. It was the hit of the party, but I did not warn anybody. After 3 glasses, it was, seesh ish goooood shessh man!

The next day, they were scarred, so please let folks know you have some high octane stuff there. Whoo Hoo! (cause they drank it like beer)
 
Ok, I'm going to try this Apfelwein thing... One question for the experts: Am I ok to pitch it on top of a pale ale yeast cake? It was a pretty hoppy brew. Think the hops will migrate to the wein? I strained most of them out before pitching, but just thought I would ask. Or should I just break down and use the $1.39 pack of yeast?
 
Cool, I figure myself and SWMBO would like the sweeter, so I'll just use some SafAle04 for this batch. I'll be using the original recipe, maybe with only 1 lb of dextrose. Should be awesome!
 
I used Lalvin K1-V1116 on my batch and I have active fermentation with about 1.5in of foam on the top. Will this turn out ok using this yeast? My LHBS didn't have Montrachet and he recommended this one.
 
I think ANY yeast will work. It's just a matter of how well it will work.

Having read this entire thread, I don't think anyone else has tried Lalvin, so you are in uncharted territory. But, given that people have used Ale yeasts and wine yeasts and dip-their-nutsack yeasts with good results, I don't see any reason why yours shouldn't work out alright.

Let us know how it turns out...
 
Question - I am going to give this a shot this weekend sounds too easy and too good not to. So my question is - after four weeks in the carboy - what do you use to prime when bottling? I am assuming this is a carbonated beverage.
 
I don't think anyone else has tried Lalvin

I used Lalvin EC-1118, Saccharomyces bayanus. Its a champagne type yeast. I've used it with several fruit wines in the past with excellent results.

I'm on day 2 since pitching. Fermentation is vigorous. Not much foam. No sulfur smells.
 
The foam has fallen since this morning. There is absolutely no foam now. Fermentation is going strong at about 1 bubble per sec in the airlock. It looks like a carbonated beverage with all the bubbles rising in it. Also, there is absolutely no sulfur smell. Maybe next batch I will try the EC-1118 and compare.
 
Ok - had my first glass of chilled, carbonated Apfelwein - Absolutely Fantastic! SWMBO, who isn't much of a drinker except for a few light beers and red wine, had one sip, said "I don't know?!?!" ...then after another said, "I could get used to this!"

So, I consider it a HUGE success!!
 
I popped the top on my batch which started 11-19. I took a whiff of the stuff like it was beer and wow, I got a nose full of alcoholy apple juice, I almost fell over. It wasn't a bad smell, just strong.
 
todd_k said:
I popped the top on my batch which started 11-19. I took a whiff of the stuff like it was beer and wow, I got a nose full of alcoholy apple juice, I almost fell over. It wasn't a bad smell, just strong.

Ya, that's a bad idea - lol. This stuff packs a WALLOP! Two full glasses will change your outlook on life. Ed is my hero!
 
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