Brewing with Insects?!?!

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xevioso

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Hi. I have a weird question. I am not entirely new to brewing, after having brewed about 8 batches.

However, I recently returned from Thailand, where one can purchase large water beetles as a delicacy. Supposedly the real essence of these insects goes for many hundreds of dollars an ounce over there; a chemically equivalent artificial extract has been created called Mangdana Essence or Ca Cuong Essence and is available in specialty asian food shops here in the US.

I would like to make a "Bug Beer". My thought would be to purchase this stuff and add a few drops or more to the secondary. I wouldn't be making a tincture, I dont think, or putting any bugs into the mash...just using the essence, like one would add peach extract or something to the secondary.

Does anyone know if anyone has ever brewed a beer with insect extract? Has anyone heard of this being attempted and was it successful? Hopefully it will be tasty, but even if not, it might be interesting to try.

--J
 
Subscribed because I can't wait to see what turns up in here. I'm sure most of us have brewed with weevils in our grain, but that's not intentional. ;)

Sorry I can't help....but welcome. :mug:
 
Thats strange just today on the radio i heard of eggs in Japan i think being boiled in 10 year old boy pee taken from students and they cant keep enough of them on the shelves,apparantley its been going on for a hundred years and people love them.WTF? Nothing here from me to help your beer though sorry.
 
I'm guessing the answer is no, no one here has intentionally done this. I would also suspect a few drops in a 5 gallon batch would be a waste. If you wanted to get this flavor you probably need to add some to each bottle, I'd start with one bottle.
 
Supposedly the taste is very unique. I'll try anything once; I have heard it is reminiscent of a gin taste (which would be fine because brewing with juniper berries isn't too bad), a gewustraminer, and/or gorgonzola. Im not sure what a gorgonzola-flavored beer would be like, although I have seen recipes for gorgonzola-beer soup, so they apparently go well together.

I guess I would wonder if I should try for a very light beer with a focus on the bug extract, or try a porter or something.

I guess I need to get the extract first. I'll try to pick it up tonight from a store nearby I suspect has it.
 
I'm guessing the answer is no, no one here has intentionally done this. I would also suspect a few drops in a 5 gallon batch would be a waste. If you wanted to get this flavor you probably need to add some to each bottle, I'd start with one bottle.

So, if I were making a peach beer, for example, a batch of 5 gallons, how much peach extract would I put into the secondary? 1oz? 3? 5? I tried making a sassafras mead and I clearly didnt add enough for the sassafras to come through. I want to make sure this flavor, whatever it is, comes through. Should I add it to the secondary in my glass carboy in a large amount, or just add as drops to individual bottles? The stuff is cheap, if I can find it...so I can add as much as I need to the secondary.
 
By the way, the link to what this essence looks like is here:
http://www.mythaimart.com/g00260.html

And the bug it comes from is here:
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/forkintheroad/2009/02/mangda_na_--_th.php

The Thai people eat them all the time. The actual essence which is a pheremone is labor intensive, so few places sell the real deal. I have no idea what it tastes like, but I'll give it a shot.

It sounds like the essence is mostly used in savory vietnamese dishes which are very salty. I suspect it lends itself to that rather than the sweet malty bitter hoppy flavor of beer.

But if you really wanted to go for it you should try to get the whole bug and toss it in the bottle like the worm in a bottle of Mezcal:rockin:
 
One warm summer day, a 20 gallon outdoor brew day turned into brew night. A few weeks later when I went to rack one of the beers, a Belgian Wit, there was a large moth in the fermenter! I racked the beer and left the moth with the yeast cake. The beer turned out awesome. Not exactly what you are looking for, but interesting never the less. Good luck. :D

P.S. There has to be a cool name in there somewhere.
 
i once had an earwig in my primary and no idea how it got there. i called the batch earwig brew and felt slightly uncomfortable each time i cracked one.
 
So, sure enough, my local Asian supermarket here in San Francisco (New May Wah supermarket at 8th and Clement, if you are interested) did not disappoint.

I just went there after work, thinking, surely they will not have bug extract. How crazy would that be. And here it is!

01.jpg


Here's some more pictures of the actual extract:

02.jpg


03.jpg


04.jpg


05.jpg


06.jpg


As you can see, there is not a lot in this little package. It's 0.1 oz. So not much. This little box was $1.49. It is artificial bug essence, which means it is supposedly chemically matched to the original stuff, which is very hard to get. I did see a scientific article online listing the compounds in the actual real bug extract, so lets assume for a moment this is accurate; even if it is not, it's going to be very cool to make an even artificial Bug Beer.

So, now the question...how does it taste? OK, so, I was worried that it would be fishy smelling since it is used in salty dishes in Asia. I trepidatiously opened up the little vial...and I have to say I am very very pleasantly surprised. It has a floral smell to it, like potpourri, a perfumy scent, but not overpowering. I think maybe kind of a lavendery bubblegummy smell. Hard to describe, but like something you might find in a floral Gewurstraminer or dessert wine, like others on the web have said.

And as for the taste, it tastes like that as well. I tried a very small amount, and it was pleasantly sweet, but not too much so. Definitely unusual. I think the taste might change dishes a lot, and maybe tasting it as part of an extract might be different than tasting it on rice or over a fish dish or something... I'll try cooking with it soon.

However, the gist of this is, I am going forward with this...I think that this could actually work.

Now the question...how much of this should I use? Should I add it into bottles after racking, or should I dump a few of these vials into the secondary?

And of course, what should I call it? Bug Beer is accurate, but, well, there's got to be a better name for something I hope will be a legendary brew. Hehehe... Wish me luck!

--J
 
One warm summer day, a 20 gallon outdoor brew day turned into brew night. A few weeks later when I went to rack one of the beers, a Belgian Wit, there was a large moth in the fermenter! I racked the beer and left the moth with the yeast cake. The beer turned out awesome. Not exactly what you are looking for, but interesting never the less. Good luck. :D

P.S. There has to be a cool name in there somewhere.

Bug Gut Bock.

I actually think I saw thousands of these bugs while at Air Force basic training in San Antonio. You turn on the lights in the chow hall and they ran like hell. La coocooracha! La coocooracha! :ban:
 
Most of the ketchup we eat has worms in it...

Perhaps you shouldn't tell you friends what's in it, and let them guess first - single blind test.

Bug light!
 
Dude just go for it and put the actual insects in the fermentor. Epic.


So, these bugs are somewhat rare over there, but there is a version of this species that lives in the US. However, they are not, um, "farmed" like they are over there; I'd have to find them myself. Not gonna happen. But I will try with the extract...
 
So I have actually tried a drop or two of this in an IPA and a Porter...Okocim, a Polish beer, and Anchor Porter. It works better int he porter. Basically, this stuff is EXTREMELY floral...

I could not put my finger on what it tastes and smells like...now I can..It tastes and smells like Violet essence. Almost exactly...kindof like Lavender Bubblegum or something. If you have ever had this candy:
candywarehouse_2149_552063987


This is EXACTLY what this stuff tastes and smells like. It's not a bad smell at all..just very potent. I have no idea what kindof beer Violet essence would work in...but I think a porter might be better, or a saison or something already weird.

I remember someone on a site somewhere describing the flavor as rose petal essence or something, so that might be fairly close to this taste. But to me it tastes just like that candy.
 
One warm summer day, a 20 gallon outdoor brew day turned into brew night. A few weeks later when I went to rack one of the beers, a Belgian Wit, there was a large moth in the fermenter! I racked the beer and left the moth with the yeast cake. The beer turned out awesome. Not exactly what you are looking for, but interesting never the less. Good luck. :D

P.S. There has to be a cool name in there somewhere.

Mothman Wit. The label should have two red eyes staring at you.
 
look for a lavender wheat recipe and replace the lavender. very weird idea. nicely done!
 
I would add this after fermentation has slowed down. The ingredients listed are esters and as such are relatively volatile.

A light golden ale might be a good base beer. When we lived in the South Bay (15 yrs ago), we liked to go to the Tied house in Mountain view for the Passion pale ale, which is simply their golden ale that the add passion fruit extract to. It is quite light and refreshing with a little twist from the extract.

If you wanted to go all out, find a place that is having a locust hatch and collect a bunch and brew with them. A friend of mine had a hatch in his yard a couple years ago so he scooped up a couple gallons worth. Not for brewing, but for eating! I got a bunch from him and brought them to a cookout. I cooked them in a grill pan with Old Bay. They turned out pretty good! Kinda like eating soft shell crabs.
 
The pee eggs are a weird Chinese medicine thing. I had to google it because it just didn't sound right being Japanese. Japan can be weird, but usually when it's that far out it's some fetish thing. Like stores where you can buy life like love dolls......or rent them........
 
I'm going to check out my local brewcraft shop later today or tomorrow to talk to the owner, who is very wise on these issues...SF Brewcraft here in SF. The owner, Griz, looks like Jerry Garcia (or at least when Jerry was alive) and will certainly be intrigued.

So, this will just be a normal beer it looks like, with the extract added to the bottles. I won't actually be fermenting it with the extract or with the bugs. I don't have the bugs.

Info on this specific beetle is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethocerus_indicus

and more is here:
http://efference.blogspot.com/2008/09/eating-lethocerus-indicus.html

Apparently the Thai word for these bugs is Mangda, which coincidentally is the exact same word for "lecherous pimp" in Thai. Not kidding. So maybe I will call the beer Bug Pimp Beer or something. This gets cooler all the time.

Supposedly there is a very close relative in the US. I have no idea if it produces the same pheremone. Come summertime, some of you folks where the US version of the Giant Water Beetle live might actually try to ferment a brew with it just for kicks. I have no idea how many you will need.
 
I would definitly use the photo on you beer label. It looks weird though:drunk:

450px-Lethocerus_indicus.jpg
 
So, here is a little video with more information on this insect and how it is used. Use of the extract actually goes back a few hundred years at least.



Very interesting.

Edit: at least 2000 years, not hundreds.
 
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Have you tried it with a wit? Seems like violet and wit would go together. I've heard some people say sea urchin has a violet character, so maybe any beer that pairs well with sea food?
 
Awesome. I'm hooked and will be brewing this thing:tank:
Where do I send royalties deposit? :p
 
We have giant water bugs here in Michigan (and across the U.S.):
Lethocerus americanus
I'm not about to go eating or extracting pheromones from them though. They are wicked predators. I visited a research pond once that had been sectioned off from a lake where no fish were allowed. These water bugs ruled supreme. There isn't much in the insect world (in Michigan) that takes down a dragonfly nymph.

But back to the main point, since the chemical compounds making up the pheromone is a combo of two esters, I wonder if there is a yeast out there that will give you the desired esters. Might be worth a call or email to the yeast companies. Could be a market for a yeast strain that they shelved. I have to be honest, a floral beer doesn't sound good to me. But to each their own.
 
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