Ale Pail Accuracy

I thought I would post this for all of the other NOOBs, like myself

I recently racked my Bourbon Old Ale to a secondary, a 5-gal carboy, and was a bit upset over all the space left at the top. My other secondary has had 5 gallons of Apfelwein which came all the way up to the neck of the carboy.

I read that these plastic buckets can be off, so now that my primary Ale Pail was free, thought I would test it. I used a 1-gallon milk jug and marked the side with the actual volume as I added a gallon at a time to get to five.

This picture shows the result, I was really surprised it was this far off. I then siphoned off the water to the measuring cup to see just how much it was off. 700 ml or 24 oz; nearly a quart or even worse, TWO BEERS!

Suggest you do the same with your new equipment; measure and mark the actual and don't believe what is printed on the outside.

Yeah, I brewed for nearly a year and didn't realize this! I used my ail pale to calibrated stick I used in my boil pot, used it to catch runnings, etc...

I did a similar thing with my kettle. I used a straight piece of wood, about 1" X 1" X 30" and marked along it the level of water from each gallon jug addition. I was tempted to take only 2 or 3 measurements, and then infer the rest.. .but it was not linear. The sides of the kettle are not perfectly straight and each gallon addition placed the next line a little closer to the one before it.

To measure my boil for proper concentration, I simply use it like a dip stick. actually, that is exactly what it is.

Malintent said:

I did a similar thing with my kettle. I used a straight piece of wood, about 1" X 1" X 30" and marked along it the level of water from each gallon jug addition. I was tempted to take only 2 or 3 measurements, and then infer the rest.. .but it was not linear. The sides of the kettle are not perfectly straight and each gallon addition placed the next line a little closer to the one before it.

To measure my boil for proper concentration, I simply use it like a dip stick. actually, that is exactly what it is.

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Great suggestion, it's great to be able to pick up tips like this on the forum. Is it ok to use wood? Any concern that the wood may have been treated with chemicals, or not to worry?

mr_bell said:

Great suggestion, it's great to be able to pick up tips like this on the forum. Is it ok to use wood? Any concern that the wood may have been treated with chemicals, or not to worry?

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Don't buy a pressure treated stick Or one with stain already on it

mr_bell said:

Great suggestion, it's great to be able to pick up tips like this on the forum. Is it ok to use wood? Any concern that the wood may have been treated with chemicals, or not to worry?

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uh oh.

heh.. not worried.. I happen to have used a piece of scrap from another project... so I know where it came from. who needs oak chips when you have the Malintent measuring Stick!

SpaceportBP said:

I read that these plastic buckets can be off, so now that my primary Ale Pail was free, thought I would test it. I used a 1-gallon milk jug and marked the side with the actual volume as I added a gallon at a time to get to five. This picture shows the result

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I have 4 buckets different from yours and one bucket with markings and shape just like yours in the picture. I've measured them all more accurately now, and the 4 of one model were all off but to my surprise the one that looks like yours was dead on! Lucky me. That means the earliest beers in my brewing career were more accurate and most of the later ones were watered down

Made Graff last night. I measured my Wort (1 gal) in a pyrex measuring cup then added 4 gals of bottled apple juice and it was off by about the same amount. I should have known better and checked it day 1.

If you want to get really accurate...measure 1 gal with a measuring cup as you add it to your gallon jug and draw a fill line. I've found most gallon jugs to be closer to 1.25 if filled all the way up.

If you have a scale, you can measure by weight, taring the container weight out first of course. Stop at every 1/4 gallon or whatever, and mark your bucket or stick.

I found a 2 foot SS rule online for just over $10. That's going to be my measuring stick. I can generate a table that shows the inches of liquid for each container I own. It's a small project that I keep forgetting to do.

added to the to do list:
1. Measure all containers
2. Make dipstick for both boil kettles
3. Find missing drive from german world cup team, what happend to them?

I really like the dipstick idea; would be so cool to get a couple of "real" dipsticks from a big-block chevy or ??; acid clean, mark 1/2 gal increments . . .

Let's all keep in mind that the VOLUME of water will change with it's TEMPERATURE. A hotter liquid will expand as the subatomic particles increase their speed and the distance of their orbits around the Nucleus.

So, if you want to use the side of a pail, or a diptick, you really need to adjust for whether it's a hot 5 gallons of water, or a cold 5 gallons of water. There can be a measurable amount of difference there.

Do whats used then, measure and mark what is being used. "Cold" side of dipstick for water going into kettle, hot side for pre-boil after the mash to double check and mark the level on fermentors at Pitching temps.

Homercidal said:

Let's all keep in mind that the VOLUME of water will change with it's TEMPERATURE. A hotter liquid will expand as the subatomic particles increase their speed and the distance of their orbits around the Nucleus.

So, if you want to use the side of a pail, or a diptick, you really need to adjust for whether it's a hot 5 gallons of water, or a cold 5 gallons of water. There can be a measurable amount of difference there.

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I believe the change in volume between boiling and room temp is ~4%.

Or basically ~5 oz. per gallon (probably not too much of an issue for the homebrewing scale)

So it figures out to just over a pint per 5 gallons... Not much actually. I thought it was more like a half-gallon for some reason.

Anyway, I don't know what the thermal expansion of wort would be, maybe it's even more? Might not end up being enough to worry about after all.

My plan was to create a spreadsheet and chart the height of the water for each .25 gallons on a column, and have each pot in my collection shown in the rows, up to their maximum volume. Print it out and have a copy laminated to I don't ruin it during use.

I would place the vessel on my scale and add water, noting the height of the water at each .25 gallons. This method would be more accurate than trying to use a measuring cup to add water.

The dipstick is a great idea, but I'd use something more inert and less susceptible to infection than wood; stainless steel or food grade plastic (maybe mark a big spoon).

Also keep in mind most carboys are different as well. I have 4 six gallon carboys and 2 five gallon carboys and they are all different.

When I first filled my ale pail up I used these one gallon containers we have at my house to put iced tea in to fill up the pail with water... Came exactly to five gallons. Mines turned out fine.

I do agree that everyone should measure their ale pails.

Home depot sells 1"x36" pieces of aluminum that I used. Did it with cold water and used a dremel to make marks every 1/2 gal. Works like a champ. I did notice that the level varied a bit from one side of the kettle to the other, so I calibrated right at the valve, and use that as the spot I measure from.

RedGlass said:

If you want to get really accurate...measure 1 gal with a measuring cup as you add it to your gallon jug and draw a fill line. I've found most gallon jugs to be closer to 1.25 if filled all the way up.

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+1 on this. If you filled your gallon jug all the way to the top, you had more than a gallon of water in it.

BrookdaleBrew said:

+1 on this. If you filled your gallon jug all the way to the top, you had more than a gallon of water in it.

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As the OP (I think, still learning these terms) I stated that I used a gallon milk jug; would be surprised if they were selling me 1.25 gallons for the price of 1. That said, you have my curiosity, so I will measure it

Yeah, but they don't fill it all the way to the top with milk, do they? They leave a bit of headspace there. Maybe not a quarter gallon, but enough to throw off your measurments.

Homercidal said:

Let's all keep in mind that the VOLUME of water will change with it's TEMPERATURE. A hotter liquid will expand as the subatomic particles increase their speed and the distance of their orbits around the Nucleus.
.

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lets keep in mind the kind of temperatures we deal with with our tiny 200K burners affects matter at the atomic level not the sub-atomic level.