Countertop Brutus 20

I think if you use an immersion chiller as per Jeff's original
design then you probably wont have problems with hops
clogging - maybe unles you're using whole hop flowers, in
which case you could attach some kind of screen to the
kettle outlet inside the kettle.

I use a plate chiller on my system (p.55 of this thread) and
started to get some blockage from hot break proteins the
last time I brewed so plan to modify my process a little for
next brew.

Once I start the boil after mashing, I'm going to connect my
system with p-chiller and boil for ~15mins to sterilise, then
disconnect the p-chiller from the system for the rest of the
boil. At boil end, I'll just leave the wort for a while to drop in
temperature some before whirlpooling to get the hot break
and 60min hops to drop to the middle of the kettle.

Then I 'll reconnect the p-chiller and proceed as before and
hopefully avoid any chiller blockages. I'd have to adjust hop
scheduling to allow for this change.

timpoulsen said:

OK, I'm new to grain brewing. Never have done it yet. Like to build this system. I have a dumb question but do you ever have clogging of hops in the lines and pump when pumping from the kettle through the chiller? Also, do you have to run your cooled wort from the brew pot through some kind of strainer into your fermenter? How long do you leave the cooled wort in the kettle to settle all the particulates prior to draining? Would be nice to see some recipes that have been used in this exact same design. I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of formulation, efficiancy and whatever, but I can easily follow a recipe and time table to make a brew. I have only done extracts on the stove and thought they all were good until I had a bottle of a home brewed all grain. Just a dumb retired fireman and haven't found a beer I didn't like.

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I've never had a problem with March pumps passing pellet hops - even when brewing a Pliny clone.

Do you like black IPAs? Here's my recipe along with a time table. I've brewed this several times - it's my favorite recipe.

IPA Noir (4gal)
OG: 1.072, IBU: 85, SRM: 29

8lbs Maris Otter
2lbs Munich I
0.5lbs Carafa III
0.5lbs Carahell
1oz 14% Magnum (or other clean bittering hop) - first wort hop
1oz 5.5% Cascade - 30 mins
1oz 5.5% Cascade - 15 mins
2oz 5.5% Cascade - 5 day dry-hop
Safale S-04 or S-05 yeast
65F ferment for 7 days, 5 day dry-hop at 68F

1. Heat 5.75 gal of water to 162F in the kettle. As temp approaches, begin recirculation to pre-heat the mash tun.
2. Once the strike temp is reached, close mash tun valve and allow it to fill to 4 gal. Shut off pump. Dough in your grains and stir thoroughly. Mash temp should be 150-152F. Close up the mash tun and wait 75 min.
3. With about 10 min left in the mash, heat the remainder of the water to 170F.
4. Once mash is complete, pull the mash return hose off the kettle and run a couple quarts of wort out of the mash tun into a bowl to set the grain bed. Return this wort to the top of the mash tun.
5. Re-plumb the return hose and begin a slow system recirculation to bring the mash to mashout temp. You'll need to adjust the pump output and mash tun valves to reach a balance of flow. You're looking for no more than a quart or two of flow per minute. Recirculate for at least 30 minutes. Do not wander too far from the system at this point! If the mash tun stops flowing for any reason, the pump will draw off all the wort from the kettle, and the element will burn out (a bad brew day).
6. Shut off pump and allow all wort to flow to kettle. Add first wort hops to the kettle and set the PID to manual mode, 100% to begin the boil. Remove kettle lid, of course.
7. Once all the wort runs out of the mash tun, I give it a gentle tip to run off the dead space wort under my false bottom. Depends on your system's design. There should be about 4.5 gallons in the kettle pre-boil.
8. Continue the boil for 60 min, adding hops at the times specified. Throttle back the PID if necessary.
9. With 10 min left in the boil, drop the pump output hose into the kettle and fire up the pump to recirculate boiling wort through the pump & chiller to sanitize. Add any fining agents you may use at this time too. Plumb up the chilling water source.
10. After the boil is complete, kill the element power, put kettle lid back on and plumb pump output hose to it. My hose inside the kettle lid has a 90 deg brass nipple on it so the return wort whirlpools in the kettle.
11. Recirculate wort at full speed while running chiller water. Continue to recirculate until PID shows temp under 65F. Shut off pump and chiller water. Let wort rest covered in kettle for at least 30 minutes. Good time to clean mash tun, prep fermenter, etc.
12. To drive remaining wort out of the chiller / pump, you can blow into the pump output hose, pushing the wort back into the kettle, or you can carefully raise the pump / chiller bucket above the kettle and let gravity do the work. Close the kettle valve to keep the wort from flowing back. Should be about 4 gal of finished wort.
13. Remove input hose from pump / chiller bucket and run the wort into your fermenter. There should be at least 3.5 gal of finished wort in the fermenter after leaving behind the kettle trub.

Brewday time summary:
Heat strike water: 45 min
Mash: 75 min
Mashout: 30 min
Boil: 60 min
Chill: ~20 min (varies on water temp)
Rest: 30 min

LOVE Black IPA. Had a DogZilla from some brewery in Idaho. Thanks for the reply. Definately will be one of my first attempts. Gathering parts now and hope to smell up the kitchen in about a month.

timpoulsen said:

OK, I'm new to grain brewing. Never have done it yet. Like to build this system. I have a dumb question but do you ever have clogging of hops in the lines and pump when pumping from the kettle through the chiller? Also, do you have to run your cooled wort from the brew pot through some kind of strainer into your fermenter? How long do you leave the cooled wort in the kettle to settle all the particulates prior to draining? Would be nice to see some recipes that have been used in this exact same design. I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of formulation, efficiancy and whatever, but I can easily follow a recipe and time table to make a brew. I have only done extracts on the stove and thought they all were good until I had a bottle of a home brewed all grain. Just a dumb retired fireman and haven't found a beer I didn't like.

Click to expand...

No dumb questions in there. Replying to a few of the points-
Hops don't tend to clog pumps and lines. Hops and grains will both clog filters in the wrong situations. I drop my hops into cheap filter bags, which allows them plenty of exposure to the wort but minimizes the mess a bit.

By all means go with the Countertop Brutus if you're convince that's how you want to go (I love my system) but I felt it was really helpful to do my first few all grain batches in a system where I wasn't worried so much about pumps and figuring out new equipment. The Stovetop All-Grain Brewing thread can usually be done almost entirely with things you have on hand.

As far as what ends up in the fermenter - if you minimize most of the gunk (let it settle for a few minutes, then pump/dump/siphon out) anything that does make it in there will settle if you give it adequate time after fermentation.

Good luck with everything.

No dumb questions in there. Replying to a few of the points-
Hops don't tend to clog pumps and lines. Hops and grains will both clog filters in the wrong situations. I drop my hops into cheap filter bags, which allows them plenty of exposure to the wort but minimizes the mess a bit.

By all means go with the Countertop Brutus if you're convince that's how you want to go (I love my system) but I felt it was really helpful to do my first few all grain batches in a system where I wasn't worried so much about pumps and figuring out new equipment. The Stovetop All-Grain Brewing thread can usually be done almost entirely with things you have on hand.

As far as what ends up in the fermenter - if you minimize most of the gunk (let it settle for a few minutes, then pump/dump/siphon out) anything that does make it in there will settle if you give it adequate time after fermentation.

Good luck with everything.

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Thanks dflipse, nice info. I've decided to go Jay's route since it's an easy build an I'm an electrical geek. Any info I get from you guys is very much appreciated. Once I get all the parts, looks like a friday build, saturday tweek and a sunday brew. I like the smaller volume and kitchen counter footspace. Brewing a bit over a case a day is my style and ability to have a variety in the fermenters. My peeps are going to be some very happy dudes. I haven't taken the time to find out what the hell you guys are talking about with efficiency and other numbers I've seen. I just want to have something to quaff down and share. Give me some recipes and timetables and I'll be one happy guy. I'm sure I'll catch up to speed on the technicalities as time goes on.

I've been hearing a lot of people grumbling about their pumps having problems to "prime" on other threads. I've never used a pump while brewing, so was wondering what caused that, is it a lack of head pressure on the pump and it can't push the liquid? If thats the case, how does the countertop system work around this problem since the liquid is at the same hight as the pump?

Also, I stumbled on this pump: http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html
Since it seems to be cheaper than the march pumps, I was wondering about the quality, has anyone tried it on this system?

As long as the water level is higher than the pump (and it should be if the pump is at the bottom of the bucket), the pump will fill on its own if you give it a moment. Then it's essentially self-primed. Also, because liquid is never removed from the pump during a CB20 brewing session, it never loses prime.

I read through half the thread. I have one buring question my infantile mind can not figure out:

What does the PID do? Does it turn off the element when the mash in temp is hit? Does it turn on the element when the temp gets too low during recirculation?

adamjab19 said:

I read through half the thread. I have one buring question my infantile mind can not figure out:

What does the PID do? Does it turn off the element when the mash in temp is hit? Does it turn on the element when the temp gets too low during recirculation?

Click to expand...

It can do all of the above. Wikipedia has a good article on PIDs.

jkarp said:

It can do all of the above. Wikipedia has a good article on PIDs.

Click to expand...

Thanks! I am happy with my brew set up now but over the next 5-8 years I definitely want to make it more compact and "automated".

Just wanted to take a moment to say thanks again for coming up with such a great system. I've done' about a half dozen brews so far and just finished brewing a Milk Stout today. Everything went great!

Thanks Man!

Also jkarp, thanks for the recipe. I think all us CB-20 fans would appreciate seeing more of your favorite recipes with instructions tailored for this setup.

Much appreciated!

Glad it's working for ya Bonwit!

how much can you boil easily with the 2000w element? like a 4 gallon boil to reach around 3ish gallons? which would be perfect.

that's pretty much exactly what this system does

2KW will get 5-6 gal to a good rolling boil, especially if the pot is insulated.

Just what i was looking for, thank you sir!

I'm sorry if this has been asked but I couldnt read through the whole thread, if I wanted to bring this up to 5 gallon batches and use a 4500 watt 240 volt would the parts for the controller box be the same except I would need a 240 volt plug? I cant believe I may tackle this, i have never worked with electricity in my life.

You need 240v plugs, outlets, wiring. And you need to upgrade the "on/off" switch to a DPST switch or contactor.
Upgrade the heatsink and SSR as well.

What if I use the setup as is but put an additional heat stick in to bring to a boil after recirculation? Will one stick get 8 gallons of water to 170 degrees?

so TWO 120v elements in total? yes, that would work

But not all the time. One hooked up to the system and the other seperately plugged in just to bring to a boil.

Just wanted to post a huge "Thank you" to jkarp! I did a build very similar to your OP. I just don't have a pump, so I lift the MT up to a higher shelf. The Reflectix is a great call for insulating the kettle.

jkarp - awesome system! What do you do for packaging for your 3g of fermented beer? Bottle? Keg? I really like this setup, but I already have about seven 5-gallon corneys

fantastic setup! definitely what i'm going to work towards.
since i'd rather not modify my current equipment, i figured i'd start with a fresh kettle.
would something like this work?
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/backyard-pro-30-quart-aluminum-stock-pot-turkey-fry-pot-with-lid-and-accessories/554BP30AL.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=554BP30AL&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CNf7s-fz0rcCFUyY4AodoEsAtg
not sure if it's the right dimensions, and since i'm planning on small batches like jkarp, don't know if 30 quarts is too much.

30 quart is just about perfect, and the geometry of turkey fryer pots is ideal for electric brewing - less heat loss.

i found a 24-qt stock pot that's 12-1/4" wide by 12-1/2" high.
the turkey fryer is 12-1/2" wide by 15-1/2" high, but it's 30 quarts.
would a 1/4" make that much of a difference with the heat loss?
they're both about the same price, too, so i'm having a hard time picking one.

What's the general consensus on aluminum vs stainless steel for the brew kettle with this particular setup? I'm looking at 30-32qt turkey fryer kettles and can't decide.. Aluminum would be cheaper and easier to drill but stainless would be easier to clean.. Suggestions?

Great design here!

So I just came across this thread and I have all the stuff for 5 gallon batch but after seeing this it makes the transition to electric brewing fairly easy. From what I have read I could use 2 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006JLVBW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 One plugged into the PID and one into another outlet for it to work.

mrshaund said:

So I just came across this thread and I have all the stuff for 5 gallon batch but after seeing this it makes the transition to electric brewing fairly easy. From what I have read I could use 2 http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006JLVBW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

Might it be worth thinking about low density elements instead? HBT search "low watt density". That amazon link you pointed to is high density.

Here is one link from the various threads on this: PlumbingSupply.com

One plugged into the PID and one into another outlet for it to work.

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You would need to make sure the outlets are off different circuits coming out of your power distribution box (if two elements - plus whatever else running - will exceed the rating of the circuit plugged into).

MaltyHops said:

Might it be worth thinking about low density elements instead? HBT search "low watt density". That amazon link you pointed to is high density.

Here is one link from the various threads on this: PlumbingSupply.com


You would need to make sure the outlets are off different circuits coming out of your power distribution box (if two elements - plus whatever else running - will exceed the rating of the circuit plugged into).

Click to expand...

Yeah I am deciding to just go single and do 3-4 gallon batches so I can brew more frequently as for the high density most post I have seen they use the High density with no issues

Has anyone considered installing the RTD probe like this? Would it take a proper reading of the strike water temp prior to recirculating?

http://www.auberins.com/images/PT100-L4012NPTfit.jpg

I like the idea of the probe off to the side of the the T fitting and and valve on the front.. Just a thought

I plan on doing that with my build, going bulkhead -|wall|-> valve -> nipple -> T fitting -> camlock F (front of T) probe (side of T). Kinda like how its done on http://theeelectricbrewery.com/

Pulled the trigger and put in my bargain fittings order, out of curiosity what RTD is everyone using.

Rsd??

I think he meant RTD.

I plan on using this one - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249 with the deluxe cable - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=269 based on things I have read throughout this site

yeah RTD lol

I'm going to start building this system over the next few months. Planning to build it one chunk at a time.. Already have a 5 gal mash tun with valve/braid and will be ordering all of the components this weekend to build the electric brew kettle portion of this design.

Can't wait to get this all put together and join all you electric brewers out there!

One question on the mash tun.. How effective is the NorCal false bottom vs a normal braided hose? My braid isn't that old and is in great shape, just not sure if its worth upgrading to the FB sooner rather than later?

Jeebas said:

I think he meant RTD.

I plan on using this one - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=249 with the deluxe cable - http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=269 based on things I have read throughout this site

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I second this.. Really like the idea of having the probe off to the side rather than sticking out the front. It should read the temps just fine as long as the water is flowing and recirculating. May have to recirculate a bit while heating the strike water to get a proper reading but time will tell when I actually get that portion built!

Just wanted to post a pic of my cb20 that I built over 2 years ago and still working like a charm. Only thing i changed was the mash tun strainer to a bazooka strainer.

Thanks again jkarp your the kind of people this world needs.