Aluminum pot and oxy clean?

What does oxy clean do to an aluminum pot that is negative? It oxidizes it? What does this mean in noob speak? What is best way to clean it?

Oxidation = Rust

There is a big thread on AL Pots here somewhere that I read the other day. It covers all the speculation about issues with using AL pots. The key thing mentioned is that you want a layer of Aluminum Oxide built up on the pot. You don't want to scrub it off because it is going to separate your wort from the AL which could leach into the wort and produce undesired flavors. You can scrub your pot but if you remove the AL Oxide you will want to get it built back up. Just boil water in it for 30 min to 1 hr and it will be good to go.

The other thing mentioned was that you really don't need to go overboard cleaning it. Sanitizing it isn't needed because you are just going to boil the wort in there which will kill anything that might be in there. Obviously you want it clean but it doesn't need to be sterile.

In the thread, which was quite long, they said several times not to use Oxy clean that it would strip out the oxidization. I would think, like you mentioned, it would add to the oxidization but I am not a chemist and I haven't tried it. Worst case if it did strip out the oxidization just boil some water in it again and you are back to where you were when you started. While I plan to go to Keggles eventually, I am using a AL turkey kettle now. The only thing it has been used for other than beer is I steamed a bunch of corn in it this summer.

EDIT: Take a look at this thread... It is the one I mentioned reading above.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/faq-aluminum-pots-boil-kettles-49449/

What should the protective layer look like after boiling water in it? Mine looks slightly brownish or dark grayish.

I used oxyclean to clean it. Is it too late to save it, can I reboil or bake it to get the protective layer back?

chungking said:

What should the protective layer look like after boiling water in it? Mine looks slightly brownish or dark grayish.

I used oxyclean to clean it. Is it too late to save it, can I reboil or bake it to get the protective layer back?

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If you look at the thread I mentioned there are pics of what it looks like and covers all this. To cover what it says in a couple sentences. It will look brown to dark gray but it depends on the AL and how thick it is over time. If it is gone just reboil water for 30-min to 1 hr and it will be back, I did 1 hr to be safe as I had a new pot. No harm other than the water and energy to boil for an hour. I would dump this water as it could pick up trace AL. Once boiled just rinse it out as you already know it is clean and go ahead and start your brewing.

I thought oxygen-based cleaners "pitted" aluminum, if left to soak?

kombat said:

I thought oxygen-based cleaners "pitted" aluminum, if left to soak?

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That may be possible. I know the FAQ thread said not to use it.

I wouldn't make a habit of using it on a AL pot but if someone did, there is no reason to throw the pot out. Just reboil and use.

I will check the thread. What does "pitted" mean? Thanks!

chungking said:

I will check the thread. What does "pitted" mean? Thanks!

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Just like it sounds. Things can eat their way into the material and take little pits out of it. Think rust on a steel. It can eat into it. After you clean it off you can have little holes or divots in what used to be a smooth surface.

That thread is long but there are lots of posts that can be skipped over because they are just ranting about the risk of AL which isn't proven. The summary is pretty good in the first post or the short blurb I wrote above. They basically said to just use a mild detergent to clean. No need to sanitize because you are going to boil the contents anyhow. As long as it is clean from chunks from your last brew you should be all set. Since you used Oxy on it you know it is clean. If they gray/brown coating is gone, reboil water. If it is still there you are likley fine. While it can be stripped away it either takes some elbow grease with a scratch pad or some stronger acid cleaners. If it is removed it isn't the end of the world. While I plan on going to SS, I am going to use my AL kettle for a while until I get set up for Keggles.

What about using starsan on it? Since starsan is acidic...

i'm not trying to be a butt-head, but do you realize how many dinners get cooked in aluminum pots, and nobody (as far as I know) has died from it yet.

what do you need oxy for in a brew pot?

just clean your pot properly, using good dish soap, and sanitize it for those things when you need it sanitized (like if you use it instead of a bottling bucket).

chungking said:

What about using starsan on it? Since starsan is acidic...

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That would be a waste of starsan. There is no need to sanitize a BK. You will be boiling the wort. If you use it as a HLT, the hot water will be later boiled as wort.

I use an 40 qt aluminum pot as a BK. I just rinse it out and wipe and clean it with a nylon scrubbing pad after I use it.

And... I didn't bother with boiling water in it to condition it when I got. I did my first batch in it straight out of the box. I'm still alive...

While the thread is very informative, where it is a little confusing in terms to your original question is the oxide.

In the initial post he states

Cons:
- oxidizes easily, meaning that oxygen-based cleaners (e.g., Oxyclean, One-step) cannot be used (Note: caustic or other similar clean-in-place solutions can definitely not be used, which is why the brewing industry generally does not use aluminum.)
- passive oxide layer must be built up before brewing (**see note below) with a new aluminum kettle, although it is very easy to maintain

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So he said you can't use Oxyclean because it oxidizes but then said that you want a passive oxide layer built up from the boil. That is why I don't know if Oxyclean strips it off. Is your pot still gray/brown on the inside? What is the difference between Oxidization and passive oxide? I don't know, I am not a chemist but the consensus is that if you do a boil you will be fine. Oh I forgot that you can also put it in the oven at 350 for an hour if it will fit.

Later he mentioned the oxide layer again in this post.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/faq-aluminum-pots-boil-kettles-49449/index3.html#post498217

Here is a good pic of what you want to see. Look at the darker area.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/faq-aluminum-pots-boil-kettles-49449/index6.html#post758263

chungking said:

What about using starsan on it? Since starsan is acidic...

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Why would you need to sanitize it, unless you're using it as your fermenter?

I have a 7.5 gallon aluminum pot that came with my turkey fryer kit. I use it as my HLT. I don't bother sanitizing it, because the water either gets dumped into my MLT (which is subsequently boiled), or my stainless steel boil kettle (which is then boiled), neither of which need to be sanitized because they're pre-boil.

I wash my aluminum pot with PBW, but I rinse it right away and never leave it to soak. I don't bother sanitizing any of the three vessels (HLT, mash tun, or boil kettle) because the boiling takes care of that.

He asked what the is the best way to clean it.

Rinse it out and scrub lightly if needed.

Put it away.

There is no reason to use any cleaner on it, but if you hit it with a little oxyclean when you are cleaning your other equipment it won't hurt it. Just rinse it well (to make sure there is no soap residue more than any fears for the "coating")

And... you don't need to boil water in it to season it. Do you think they take the time to do that with a new aluminum pot in a restaurant?

CGVT said:

That would be a waste of starsan. There is no need to sanitize a BK. You will be boiling the wort. If you use it as a HLT, the hot water will be later boiled as wort.

I use an 40 qt aluminum pot as a BK. I just rinse it out and wipe and clean it with a nylon scrubbing pad after I use it.

And... I didn't bother with boiling water in it to condition it when I got. I did my first batch in it straight out of the box. I'm still alive...

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Yeah, I mentioned no need to Starsan because this is a boil kettle. Nothing bad will make it through the 60 minute or so boil you will likely be doing.

I cleaned mine the same way. Cleaned it up to get the hop residue and anything else stuck to it from the wort of right away while it would come off easy and stored it for next use.

Using it without conditioning won't kill you. There is some speculation that it may lead to Alzheimer’s disease because trace AL has been found in brain cells related to this disease. However they don't know the source of this or if it is really causing the disease. Like what was mentioned before. Lots of people use aluminum pans and pots not to forget aliminum foil. Probably the bigger issue in terms of beer is that there is a higher chance you may pick up an off or metalic flavor if you don't have the layer built up. That was my concern over death or disease. Through use it will get built up anyhow but if you use aggressive cleaning chemicals or techniques you will be stripping it off each time so it won't build up. So the lesson is more that this dull color is actually desireable as it will not only protect the pot but the contents. No need to strip it off. General cleaning is fine and no need to sanitize if this is your boil kettle. If you are going to use it for bottling like mentioned above by another person, then yeah use Starsan. Even though it is acidic the levels are pretty low and it doesn't seem to strip off the layer. This is from what I read though.

I let it soak in some oxy for like an hour then scrubbed and rinsed well. The "layer" was still there, and might even be darker then before! Although that may be from use, as this is the 3rd brew ive used it for.

Ill probably boil or bake it again, just in case, and try not to use oxy on it in the future.

chungking said:

I let it soak in some oxy for like an hour then scrubbed and rinsed well. The "layer" was still there, and might even be darker then before! Although that may be from use, as this is the 3rd brew ive used it for.

Ill probably boil or bake it again, just in case, and try not to use oxy on it in the future.

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Yep, that is exactly what I would do. No need to go over board on cleaning it. If they layer is still there you are fine. It won't hurt anything to boil it again or toss in the oven at 350 if you want to be sure.

Bottom line is you didn't wreck your pot, no need to clean it that hard again if you do a basic clean when you get done brewing, it isn't going to kill you or wreck your next beer.

Oh and about AL getting into your beer. There is AL in Tums. If you have AL in your beer it will likely cure your heart burn. That just goes to show that there is a lot of sources for ingesting AL. That is why the chance of off flavors is the biggest reason to leave the deposit there. At least it is for me.

I think the secret is to be sure swmbo doesn't get hold of the brew pot. Many people that cook believe that all cooking pots need to be shiny to be clean. Not so for an aluminum brew kettle. I had my swmbo ruin a very old cast iron skillet by taking steel wool to it. Think Grandma, circa 1920. The rust that resulted was unrecoverable.

I accidentally left oxi clean solution in my aluminum canner overnight once and now the bottom few inches of the pot is dark grey. Don't want to boil in this pot anymore so I'll just be using it as a pressure canner.

I soaked my AL kettles with PBW before I used them the first time (not knowing any better) and after 20minutes the bottom of the kettle looked like someone had taken a sander to. I thought it was ruined but I cleaned it out, boiled some water in it, and now I use it all the time.

As for the oxidation layer in the kettles JP talks about this in How to Brew and mentions that any Al that would end up in your beer from an Al kettle without this layer will not harm you, as a standard ant acid tablet has exponentially more Al in it than would result from using the Al kettle.

dadshomebrewing said:

just clean your pot properly, using good dish soap, and sanitize it for those things when you need it sanitized (like if you use it instead of a bottling bucket).

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I personally would not recommend using dish soap as most of them have perfumes that linger long after you have rinsed the soap away. dont want your beer to taste like dawn.

Like most have said I usually just rinse and scrub, maybe a very weak PBW solution rinsed right away, dont let it soak.

As for putting star san in your kettles, I used my Al kettle just to hold some star san solution for a few minutes while cleaning a fermenter and it peeled a thick layer of what I believe was oxidation off the sides and bottom of my kettle, so I would recommend you keep it away from your AL kettles.