Please Help - My beer tastes too sweet/malty

I tried brewing midwest's octane IPA, which is supposed to have an OG of 1.064-1.068 and an FG of 1.012-1.018.

Had the brew 7 days in the primary fermenter and about 11 days in secondary. There was about a 24 hour lag before noticeable fermentation started. When I took it out of primary it had a gravity of 1.034. When I took it out of secondary it had a gravity of 1.024. Fermentation temperature varied a bit and tended to be on the cooler side.

I then force-carbed at 30psi for 34 hours and then for 2 days at 12psi. Just had my first glass and it tastes pretty gross to me, way too sweet. I can't imagine drinking 5 gallons of this stuff and I'm quite disappointed.

Anybody have any idea what went wrong? My guess is I racked to secondary too early? Or maybe the White Labs British Ale Yeast (WLP005) produces too many sweet esters? My other question is, should I just dump what I have? Will the sweetness subside over time? Is it possible to pitch yeast into a carbonated beer so that some of this residual sweetness can ferment to alcohol?

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks,
Sean

Well your FG was too high. As an opening guess, since you said the temp was on the cool side perhaps the fermentation was very slow?
You didn't say if the FG was stable, so perhaps the fermentation didn't finish.

I am guessing this was an extract so we can eliminate problems a with the mash?

Wow, thats a terrible FG to force carb. Noooo way that was done. I've never tried to pitch a yeast into something i force carbed. I think your screwed but this is new to me. I'm not sure.

Days 10 and 11 of secondary both had readings of 1.024 so I assumed it was done.

Yes this was an extract.

Thanks for the response. Do you think there is anything I can do with this beer?

Serve it to your in-laws. Sorry.

After a thought or two there is one thing you might do, dry hop the **** out of it with 2 oz of cascades for a weak at room temp with an airlock on your gas in post to let the co2 ou and if you wanna try a yeast it might work. then carb it again. Ask revvy or yooper, thats what i do when i **** up at this magnatude!

I guess I can give that a shot. I have nothing to lose at this point.

So frustrating. This is only my second batch and my first batch was on the sweet side as well but not this bad.

I made an airlock out of an old damaged gas in post to use my corneys for conditioning/fermentation. I've dry hopped IPA's alot so i couldnt hurt.

Why did you move it to secondary with such a high gravity?

When I use a secondary it is for clearing the beer and fermentation is pretty much done. I rarely get more than a .001 drop in the secondary.

As you've discovered, you racked way too early. Please ignore the kit instructions that say to take the beer off the yeast at 7 days. They are outdated.

A good rule of thumb is 10-14 days in primary then rack to your secondary to allow the beer to clear ("drop bright"). Or just keep it in the primary for three or four weeks. The old fears about yeast autolysis are unfounded. After fermentation the yeasts go to work cleaning up after themselves, smoothing out flavors, reducing esters and phenols and just generally making your beer a lot more pleasant to drink. That added time also gives them the leeway to deal with lower fermentation temperatures.

Your FG (final gravity) should have been somewhere around 1.014. If it wasn't, you should have let it sit longer. Patience is critical.

At this point you could brew another, similar, batch of beer at a lower gravity and ferment it with a clean yeast known for strong attenuation, Wyeast 1056/WLP001/US-05 or Nottingham, for example, let it ferment all the way out, and blend the two beers.

I hope one of the more experienced brewers will chime in because I'm trying to figure out why you can't take it off the gas, rack to a carboy, let the CO2 off-gas at room temperature for a couple of days, and hit it with another dose of yeast until it drops to your target FG.

Chad

Thanks for the advice guys. At the time of fermentation I didn't realize you had to be checking gravity before moving it to secondary. I racked it after 7 days simply because that is what the instructions from midwest said. I won't make this mistake again.

I hope one of the more experienced brewers will chime in because I'm trying to figure out why you can't take it off the gas, rack to a carboy, let the CO2 off-gas at room temperature for a couple of days, and hit it with another dose of yeast until it drops to your target FG.

Chad

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Chad - I am wondering that too. I think I'm going to give it a shot though. I'll let you know if my gravity drops at all. Thanks.

Make sure you take temp and gravity reading prior to any transfer. If it's not ready then don't rack.

Did you make a starter and aerated the wort. These are 2 things that will prevent stuck fermentation. I dont believe racking to secondary was your issue, the yeast fall to the bottom for a reason and since ale yeast are top fermenting something caused it to go to the bottom i.e weak or dead yeast, or done fermenting. You usually racked off the yeast cake for autolysis. Just my opinion

double post

Did you make a starter and aerated the wort. These are 2 things that will prevent stuck fermentation. I dont believe racking to secondary was your issue, the yeast fall to the bottom for a reason and since ale yeast are top fermenting something caused it to go to the bottom i.e weak or dead yeast, or done fermenting. You usually rack off the yeast cake for autolysis. Just my opinion

It's like deja-vu all over again.

SmugMug said:

It's like deja-vu all over again.

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Nah. That is just the echo you get between all those tall building in NY.

Obviously, the OP knows the mistake he made. So reiterating the crappy instructions and early transfer would be redundant.
I would get it off the gas, warm it to mid to high 60's, affix and airlock and pitch a pack of S-05 or Notty. If the SG doesn't drop within a week or so, then I would consider dry-hopping to provide some balance to the sweetness.

bull8042 said:

I would get it off the gas, warm it to mid to high 60's, affix and airlock and pitch a pack of S-05 or Notty.

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+1 . And if you want to be really safe, pitch two packs or a starter: this beer is going to need a big kick start since it already has a lower Ph from the already fermented beer.

I personally don't subscribe to the just let it sit theory. Theoretically, your fermentation should be completely done within a week. All my beers, except lagers, are finished in a week. 2 weeks is now recommended for beginers in case you have a really slow lag time and slow attenuation. If your beer is fermenting slowly, then that can help. But to get a good ferment, the best thing to do is make sure you're pitching enough yeast cells, aerating your wort (I always use an O2 tank now), and keeping the fermenter at the recommended temperature range of the yeast. These are things to consider for your next brew

I brewed this same beer with a starter (the AG version, mashed at 153F), added .5 lbs of piloncillo sugar and I got it down from 1.065 to 1.010 in a week. I think you had a problem with the yeast somewhere, most likely there was not enough of it to finish the job. IPA's benefit from high attenuation so underpitching is not good, else they end up more like Barleywines.

davesrose said:

+1 . And if you want to be really safe, pitch two packs or a starter: this beer is going to need a big kick start since it already has a lower Ph from the already fermented beer.

I personally don't subscribe to the just let it sit theory. Theoretically, your fermentation should be completely done within a week. All my beers, except lagers, are finished in a week. 2 weeks is now recommended for beginers in case you have a really slow lag time and slow attenuation. If your beer is fermenting slowly, then that can help. But to get a good ferment, the best thing to do is make sure you're pitching enough yeast cells, aerating your wort (I always use an O2 tank now), and keeping the fermenter at the recommended temperature range of the yeast. These are things to consider for your next brew

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Right on... My IIPA attenuated in 5 days (OG 1.090), my Imperial Stout in 6 days (OG 1.100). If you didn't pitch enough yeast and aerate well enough for fermentation to finish in a week, you probably aren't going to hit your FG and you may have problems with off flavors.

Saccharomyces said:

Right on... My IIPA attenuated in 5 days (OG 1.090), my Imperial Stout in 6 days (OG 1.100). If you didn't pitch enough yeast and aerate well enough for fermentation to finish in a week, you probably aren't going to hit your FG and you may have problems with off flavors.

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+1 I don't see why things can't kick off again. You may not get a super low FG, but I'll bet you can drop is a couple of points. If you really can't stand it, and the notty doesn't do the trick you could use some champagne yeast since you are going to force carb anyway (disclaimer: I have personally not done this, but I have heard of others on this board doing that).

Update:

A couple weeks ago I took the corny out of the fridge and let it gas out for a week at room temperature. Then I hydrated a couple packets of dry yeast, pitched it, and used a gas line into sanitizer as an airlock. It did start bubbling, but I wasn't sure if that was just more co2 gassing out. Last night I took a gravity reading, it read 1.018. Since it read 1.024 when I force carbed, I'm guessing that I've got some fermentation going on. I'm going to let it sit for another couple weeks, force carb again, and I'll see how it tastes. I've got my fingers crossed.

Cool. Thanks for the update. Keep us posted on the progress.

Take care,
Chad

I also had an IIPA that simply wouldnt get to below a 1.025, so I experimented with it to bring it down to 1.014 or so, as well as clear up some off flavors from too high fermentation temperature. I dumped in an additional pound of dextrose and stirred up the yeast cake. I bottled yesterday, and it is delicious, strong, and is now finalized at about 1.012.

Throw some sugar in there and let it sit for an additional 2 weeks.

noisy123 said:

+1 I don't see why things can't kick off again. You may not get a super low FG, but I'll bet you can drop is a couple of points. If you really can't stand it, and the notty doesn't do the trick you could use some champagne yeast since you are going to force carb anyway (disclaimer: I have personally not done this, but I have heard of others on this board doing that).

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I had a strong ale that I didnt pitch enough yeast, and I decided to get a packet of champagne yeas(re pitch on the 1st day of ferm.). Expecting to be stuck at about 1.020 starting at 1.070 it was nice to see that I got to 1.015

Did it all work out in the end? I'm dealing with the same issue right now.

I brewed 10 gallons of a Fat Tire clone. Started at 1.060, fermented at 65F for two weeks and got to 1.020. I was hoping for 1.015 or a bit lower but decided to force carb half of it to see what it would taste like.

Well, it tastes too sweet so I pitched a pack of dry champagne yeast into the uncarbonated keg. If it attenuates to where I want it I'll do the same to the other keg. If it drys out too much I'll blend them together.