Homemade RIMS system and water filter build

After all sorts of mash temperature issues I finally decided to build a RIMS system. To start I went with a cheap Ebay controller. I bought the tri-clamp tube from brewershardware and all I can say is wow!! They have a great product and it only took a few days to get.

Tonight I went to Radio Shack and got most or the parts I needed for the controller box. I got everything cut out and mounted. Tomorrow I will be wiring things up and hopefully doing a dry run. I wanted to brew tomorrow but being so close to having this done I think I can wait a few more days.

Starting to cut the project box


4500 watt 230vac heating element (will be running @ 120vac)


Return added to mash tun


Most parts mounted, top plug is for the sensor. The outlet will be for the pump and heating element.


I left room to add a second controller later... Not sure if I need it though...


The water filter


Tonight's mess


-Jason

I love how simple the filter is. Just hook up the hose and hang it on the pot.

Nice job on the enclosure. I don't think I could have gotten the wiring don't in a space that small. That's not really my specialty though. Thank goodness I can close the door and hide the rat's nest.

itsme6582 said:

I love how simple the filter is. Just hook up the hose and hang it on the pot.

Nice job on the enclosure. I don't think I could have gotten the wiring don't in a space that small. That's not really my specialty though. Thank goodness I can close the door and hide the rat's nest.

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I'm looking forward to the wiring challenge tomorrow. I'll post some shots during the build, hopefully I can keep in neat.

Yeah I'm going to love that filter, no more buying water at the store for each brew. I have no idea why I waited so long to do this.

-Jason

Tonight I completed the controller wiring. Also pretty much finished the mount for the RIMS tube and pump. I'm hoping to do some tests tomorrow. Also I need to make some labels for the plugs and switches.

The wiring begins


Almost done (man I made a mess)


It works!!


Finished controller


RIMS Tube


Everything so far day 2
\

-Jason

Looks awesome!

I have been toying with the idea of getting a 220v coil and running it at 110v for the time being until I can run the proper electric line to feed it. What do you expect to get out of it running at 110.. Where did you get it and what model is it?

Alex.

If you run a 240V heating element at half the voltage (120V) it puts out 1/4 the watts. So his 4500W element will put about about 1125 watts running on 120V.

Why a quarter? And do you risk damaging anything by running it at a lower voltage?

I am intrigued. And also tired of buying propane. I considered tapping into my natural gas lines but this route seems easier. Is this just to heat mash water? What kind of filter is that? My next step is to add a sight glass to my HLT and plumb some water pipes across my garage and right into the HLT. I Never thought of adding an inline filter before now.

Clearcut23 said:

I am intrigued. And also tired of buying propane. I considered tapping into my natural gas lines but this route seems easier. Is this just to heat mash water? What kind of filter is that? My next step is to add a sight glass to my HLT and plumb some water pipes across my garage and right into the HLT. I Never thought of adding an inline filter before now.

Click to expand...

Yep at the moment this is just to maintain the mash and most likely be able to do a step mash. As far as the filter all parts came from Home Depot. It's a GE whole house filter with the charcoal filters. Here is the post I used for the needed parts: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/water-filter-setup-29145/

-Jason

Awesome! I already have an inline filter I've been using to filter my beer. Also I never thought of using food grade RV water lines. I was going to solder and hang copper pipes all the way across my garage. Now I may just use the RV water lines to get across the room then 90 it down with a copper pipe and water shut off

Nice work!

Why a quarter?

Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law

And do you risk damaging anything by running it at a lower voltage?

Click to expand...

No

Clearcut23 said:

Awesome! I already have an inline filter I've been using to filter my beer. Also I never thought of using food grade RV water lines. I was going to solder and hang copper pipes all the way across my garage. Now I may just use the RV water lines to get across the room then 90 it down with a copper pipe and water shut off

Click to expand...

PEX is the way to go for plumbing. RV tubing would be more appropriate for a hose.

BetterSense said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law


No

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I was going to be silly and say "physics". These heating elements are just a big resistor that is fixed. The currently flow is proportional to the voltage applied. If you halve the voltage, you halve the current. Since power is voltage x current, you've halved the voltage, halved the current and therefore have to divide power by 4.

In numbers it goes like this:
4500w / 240 (rated voltage) = 18.75 Amps (current at rated voltage)
240v / 18.75a = 12.8 ohms (this means the element is 12.8 ohms fixed so all other voltages applied can be figured out around this.

120v / 12.8 = 9.375 a given the new voltage.
120v x 9.375a = 1125 watts.

Let's say your grid is actually running 111v:

111v / 12.8 ohms = 8.67a
111v x 8.67a = 962 watts actual

Bobby_M said:

I was going to be silly and say "physics". These heating elements are just a big resistor that is fixed. The currently flow is proportional to the voltage applied. If you halve the voltage, you halve the current. Since power is voltage x current, you've halved the voltage, halved the current and therefore have to divide power by 4.

In numbers it goes like this:
4500w / 240 (rated voltage) = 18.75 Amps (current at rated voltage)
240v / 18.75a = 12.8 ohms (this means the element is 12.8 ohms fixed so all other voltages applied can be figured out around this.

120v / 12.8 = 9.375 a given the new voltage.
120v x 9.375a = 1125 watts.

Let's say your grid is actually running 111v:

111v / 12.8 ohms = 8.67a
111v x 8.67a = 962 watts actual

Click to expand...

Thanks so much for the explanation.

Did the first dry (wet) run tonight. Things went pretty well. Using my Thermapen I had to adjust the controller by about 1.5 degrees. I've attached a quick video. I still need to mess around with the controller a bit I think. Brew day is going to rock this weekend!

[ame]http://youtu.be/fsATBVvf8PY[/ame]

-Jason

That is awesome! I sent you a PM to see if you have more detailed pics of the inside to assist me with my build

I also would be interested in detailed pics of the inside, or even your wiring diagram. Thanks

Hey guys, I'll try to get something put together tomorrow. I was planning on doing it today but was way too busy

1 thing I have found so far is that I think I'll need a heatsink on the SSR, it did get a bit warm. I'll be getting this done before my weekend brew.

-Jason

I tried to draw something up, think I got it right. Hope this helps.




Also tonight I installed a heatsink on the SSR I was able to keep everything inside still. I'll have to monitor it this weekend to see if I'll need a fan.

-Jason

are you using this as a HLT or MLT? I didn't see a false bottom or screen in your cooler. Nice simple setup though, I am hoping to do something very similar to this.

That cooler is a mash tun.

RIMS is not simple. It's not rocket science but it will take lots of time and work to build it.

pannell77 said:

are you using this as a HLT or MLT? I didn't see a false bottom or screen in your cooler. Nice simple setup though, I am hoping to do something very similar to this.

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This is my MLT, for testing I left the false bottom out.

Small update last night I did some more testing with the PID and played around with the auto tuning a bit. After letting it cycle it seem to keep the temp about .7 degrees too high and would bounce over 1.2 degrees from the set point. I went into the settings manually after and set P and I to .1 but left D around 3 I think. After this I was able to maintain 4 gallons of water @ between 152.0 - 152.2 with the element only turning on for a second here and there. I'm pretty sure I'll be messing with the settings some more this Sunday when I brew.

-Jason

Any advice for working with the mypin TA4 PID? I just bought one also for my DIY RIMS setup.

pentiumone133 said:

Any advice for working with the mypin TA4 PID? I just bought one also for my DIY RIMS setup.

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I'll let you know how things work this weekend. So far it was a pretty simple to wire and program.

-Jason

Why don't you just run the auto-tune program? It should set everything perfectly to absolutely nail the temp every time.

azwillnj said:

Why don't you just run the auto-tune program? It should set everything perfectly to absolutely nail the temp every time.

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I tried the auto-tune 3 times and each time it kept the temp high by over 1 degree. I manually set things lower from the auto tune setting and I seem to have it working alright at the moment.

Had some big issues today with the RIMS system. Maybe I should not have tested with a big beer but my false bottom kept clogging up and cutting the flow to the pump. I had about 15 lb or grain and 1/2lb or rice hulls and still had issues. I have an old manifold that may work better??? What are other people using in the bottom of their 10 gallon coolers??

-Jason

How thick/thin is your mash? I find that 1.5 qt per pound works well.

JasonO said:

Had some big issues today with the RIMS system. Maybe I should not have tested with a big beer but my false bottom kept clogging up and cutting the flow to the pump. I had about 15 lb or grain and 1/2lb or rice hulls and still had issues. I have an old manifold that may work better??? What are other people using in the bottom of their 10 gallon coolers??

-Jason

Click to expand...

I have no problem with my washing machine hose. I just coiled it up with a small soft copper pipe inside it to keep it on the bottom. Works like a charm

After doing a bunch of reading today I think think my main issues is that I was trying to run the pump wide open right after adding the grain to the mash tun. I should have let things sit for a bit and restricted the flow after the rims system. I am going to add a ball valve to the return and give things another go in a week or 2.

Looking back I had some good results with my cpvc manifold. I don't remember gaining much going to a false bottom. When I cleaned out my mash tun last night it was mostly plugged up with pieces of grain, the small cuts in the cpvc never had the issue.

-Jason

JasonO said:

... I am going to add a ball valve to the return and give things another go in a week or 2...
-Jason

Click to expand...

Looking back at your pump picture, someone should have caught this right away. You are going to want to slow the flow down. However, don't put a ball valve on your return port. You'll blow your silicone tubing. Put a ball valve on the pump outlet.

JasonO said:

After doing a bunch of reading today I think think my main issues is that I was trying to run the pump wide open right after adding the grain to the mash tun. I should have let things sit for a bit and restricted the flow after the rims system. I am going to add a ball valve to the return and give things another go in a week or 2.

Looking back I had some good results with my cpvc manifold. I don't remember gaining much going to a false bottom. When I cleaned out my mash tun last night it was mostly plugged up with pieces of grain, the small cuts in the cpvc never had the issue.

-Jason

Click to expand...

I tried to address this and other RIMS troubleshooting last week but my thread didn't get much attention. Try a slower rate and rice hulls.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-system-learn-my-our-mistakes-thread-382530/

Mtn_Brewer said:

I tried to address this and other RIMS troubleshooting last week but my thread didn't get much attention. Try a slower rate and rice hulls.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/rims-system-learn-my-our-mistakes-thread-382530/

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Ouch yep we had the same exact issues! I had a solid block of grain at the bottom of my mash tun.I kept breaking it up but it was a mess of a brew day!

itsme6582, thanks for the info, good idea! I have hose clamps on everything but looking at it your idea is better, putting the valve directly after the pump makes more sense.

-Jason

JasonO said:

itsme6582, thanks for the info, good idea! I have hose clamps on everything but looking at it your idea is better, putting the valve directly after the pump makes more sense.

-Jason

Click to expand...

For magnetic propeller pumps like March pumps, restricting the outflow is the way to control the output. If you restrict the inflow, you will burn it out. It's counterintuitive but true.

can the Marsh pumps handle a potentiometer to throttle the flow rate? (instead of varying the flow rate with the ball valve at the outlet?)

For my RIMS set up I will recirculate my mash water run through the rims tube until I get my desired strike temp and to ensure I wont lose a prime. After I mash in I let the grain settle for at least ten minutes. I then turn on my pump with the ball valve (On the outlet side of the pump) barely open. Once I can see things are flowing and I wont be getting a stuck mash I will then flick on my element switch set at the proper mash temp. Every 2-3 minutes after that I will open the ball valve a little at a time until I'm at proper flow rate. Once you tinker with your system you will know that "Sweet Spot". I never open my ball valve more than half way though. Also, some beers depeing on the grist will vary on how much I open my ball valve.

Weezy said:

can the Marsh pumps handle a potentiometer to throttle the flow rate? (instead of varying the flow rate with the ball valve at the outlet?)

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I previously looked into this extensively. March 809 pumps are brushless motors (see spec sheet below) and therefore need an electronic speed control (ESC), which is rather expensive. A ball valve is way cheaper and simpler, so that's what I went with.

http://www.marchpump.com/site/files/966/112183/382444/641398/0809-0053-1400_R5.pdf
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_speed_control#section_1

If there is an engineer or electrician out there, further clarification would be appreciated .

It is true that brushless motors must be controlled by modifying the electronic commutation. AC synchronous motors (probably what the March pumps use, also 'brushless') don't have any commutation and spin at mains frequency, so you would have to have an in-between complicated gizmo to change the rotation frequency.

Hmmmm...like an RC car ESC...which does just what were talking about with small brushless motors. I probably have one buried in the basement.

edit: nevermind. Forgot about voltage and amperage differences.