Adding sour/tart finish to wheat

My wife is in love with 5 Rabbit 5 Lizard, a latin wheat made with lime +passionfruit instead of the traditional orange and coriander, and has tasked me with trying to re-create as much of its flavor as is possible via extract brewing.

I think I've got a handle on most everything but what I perceive to be a mildly tart and sour finish, and was wondering if there are any good techniques for trying to replicate this.

I've read that acidulated malt can be used to lower ph during mash, but since I'm not mashing, the next option was adding straight up lactic acid 88% to the water.

Has anyone had experience adding lactic acid to the boil, pre-boil, or post-boil and if so, what was the result? Any best practices?

I would assume that adding lime juice would lower the ph considerably and give a tart/sour finish. I would add more fresh squeezed lime juice.

Thanks. I thought about that and wondered if adding the necessary amount of lime juice to get the desired tartness would also add an undesired amount of flavor to the finished product.

I suppose I could do a bit of taste testing. At which stage would you recommend making the addition?

what about a little acidulated malt, or lactic acid to taste. I might worry that to get enough acidic bite from something like lemon or lime juice might leave more lemon or lime flavor in the beer than you might be looking for. Guess it depends on what you are going for.

I was not able to pick up much lime taste from the beer when I sampled it, so my thought was that they either added the lime in a way that reduced its flavor, or they used some sort of additive to give it that bite.

It was definitely not sour all the way through.

Email or call the brewery to see if you can get any info on acids they might use. I've done it a few times for different questions and always had good help and communication.

A small sour mash, then straining out the grain and adding the wort to the boil to kill the bugs would be another option without too much lime flavor, but a measure of sour.

pdxal said:

A small sour mash, then straining out the grain and adding the wort to the boil to kill the bugs would be another option without too much lime flavor, but a measure of sour.

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Only reason I might not advise a sour mash is that, being an extract brewer, he might not have the ability to flush it with oxygen. Not sure if you've ever had sour mashed beer that got some butyric acid, but it's not pleasant.

pegasus_brew said:

Only reason I might not advise a sour mash is that, being an extract brewer, he might not have the ability to flush it with oxygen. Not sure if you've ever had sour mashed beer that got some butyric acid, but it's not pleasant.

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You mean flush it with CO2? Oxygen is what allows pediococcus to ferment a sour mash greater than lactobacillus and cause the rotten smell of butyric acid.
I've done many a sour mash, and just covered the pot or put plastic wrap on the surface to make an anaerobic environment with good results.
Really no skill involved, just some wort, handful of raw grain, and a little time with a warm temperature...
Cheers.

I'm not 100% sure this could be replicated, but I was going for something similar a few months ago, and fermented a wheat beer with WY2565, underpitched by about 25% to stress the yeast a bit. It ended up with a fantastic tart, almost a bit sour, character. Exactly what I was hoping for. Combine that with a hop flavor addition maybe along the lines of Citra, Mosaic, and/or Galaxy and I think you might hit the nail on the head.

pdxal said:

You mean flush it with CO2? Oxygen is what allows pediococcus to ferment a sour mash greater than lactobacillus and cause the rotten smell of butyric acid.
I've done many a sour mash, and just covered the pot or put plastic wrap n the surface to make an anaerobic environment with good results.
Really no skill involved, just some wort, handful of raw grain, and a little time with a warm temperature...
Cheers.

Click to expand...

Sorry, you're right, CO2. Before I had the ability to flush with CO2 I had a few berliners come out fine and then one that was pure baby diaper. Nothing changed in my process between the first two and the third one, which was to transfer to the boil kettle, add the grain, and let it sit at around 100f for a few days until I was happy with the level of tartness. It made me a little uncomfortable brewing them until I started kegging. Haven't had that problem since.

I've added a measured amount (1-5ml) to each bottle of 88% lactic acid at packaging when I thought the beer needed a punch... or I was just screwing around. Use a pipette

Wow, thanks everyone. This thread really took off and there are some great thoughts/tips offered.

Something I didn't know about passionfruit is that it's quite sour on its own, so what I've decided to do is try this variety a few times, trying a new variation each time. Batch 1 I'm going with lime juice/passionfruit at 0 min, and then adding again once fermentation is complete.

If that doesn't add a decent punch (I suspect it won't), I'm going to experiment with sour mash and 88% Lactic Acid to learn more about those methods. At worst, I get some experience that I can use when experimenting in the future.

I bought some Goya Passionfruit pulp from the grocery's freezer section and took a taste. Boy is it tart!