Need help figuring out how grain is getting under my MLT false bottom

I have about three brews done on my new Brutus 10 styled system I built and each time I have been having issues during the recirculation and fly sparge getting grains under the false bottom and coming out through the dip tube. I am looking for some help figuring out what to try to prevent this from happening.

Here are the details of the system. Single tier Brutus 10 style system. Using kegs I converted as the vessels. The false bottom is a Jaybird folding false bottom (without the handle or supports underneath). The dip tube end has been cut to fit about an inch off the bottom of the keggle. I use a monster mill MM2-2.0 mill with a gap I have set at .043." I have made a couple 10 gallon batches and one five gallon batch all with the same results of getting grains coming through.

It's bugging the crap out of me that I get a descent amount of particulates getting pumped over to the BK. The goal is a minute level. Any idears?

take something like a piece of string or a small straw or toothpick or something and make sure it is seated well all the way around the edges, as that is where mine tend to come throught if I don't seat it well. As a safety measure, I use a plastic scrubby under dip tube to make sure nothing comes in to clog the lines...

thanks for the advice. so is that most likely it? something is getting in on the side?

unless the grind is too small for the holes in the false bottom...

I use a stainless scrubbie under my dip tube and it works great. Keeps all the little bits out.

Broken record... spendy but the best I've used is the Pico style false bottom

Well I am back to this thread I started. I am investigating a few different options now. First off, how does that PICO false bottom work in a traditional welded coupler/diptube configuration? Does it sit on top of all those things?

Here is what I have tried and I still get a decent amount of particulates coming through.

-Increased my gap on my mill to up to .045
-Rice hulls mixed with the mash
-My false bottom is a hinged false bottom and I have held it in place with a SS hose clamp on the dip tube holding it down

I am starting to wonder if I am creating a vacuum with my Little Giant pump and the bottom is pulling down in the middle and the edges are lifting on the sides letting grain through.

I am thinking of trying the following.

-Try a PICO false bottom
-Try a Sabco false bottom that has legs under it to keep it from bending
-Try a smaller (mine is currently 15") false bottom that is a solid piece instead of a folding

Would love to figure this out. It's sorta driving me mad these days.

If you think you might be pulling vacuum, try making a grant. Use it for a brew or two and see the results. You may decide you like having it anyway regardless of whether or not it solves the problem.

It might just be bowing inward a bit like you think.

What sort of support is in the middle? Maybe use a couple of supports under each side of the hinge to be sure it stays flat.

How much grain is getting through? I have a jaybird false bottom 12" ( non hinged) I used a hose clamp on the dip tube to make sure the false bottom sits tight against the bottom. I don't direct fire so I didn't need a full 15" bottom. It's a herms and recirculated and only a tiny bit of very fine grain was below the false bottom when I cleaned it out. It must be coming through the edge. Do you have a dent in the keg near the edge? It might not sit flat and grain might get through.

Thanks for all the ideas. I am going to try a grant method on my next batch to eliminate any pump vacuum variable. The jaybird false bottom I have doesn't have any type of support in the middle. I was thinking of tacking a couple of 5/16-18 stainless nuts on the bottom side of the false bottom on either side of the dip tube hole and then use some stainless bolts to give some added support. As for the keg, it's in pretty decent shape. I don't see any imperfections in that area of the keg that may be causing this. When the false bottom and dip tube are setup in a dry state I can run my finger nail along the entire circumference and not really notice any gaps of major significance.

My last brew day (this past Friday) went completely sideways with multiple pump clogs of grain! I am attributing that now to the amount of flow I had going be way too much and causing it to bow up on the edges during recirculation. Typically though, I will get grain particulates coming through during my whole sparge. I keep my sparge pretty controlled at about .2 to .3 gallons per minute using an inline Dwyer flowmeter to the BK. Not piles of it or anything but I was under the impression after I set the grain bed I really shouldn't see anything. It's bugging the crap out of me.

I should note that I have contacted Jay (of Jaybird) and he has been VERY responsive and we have talked a couple of times on the phone trying to brainstorm this one. He's as puzzled as I am and really wants to help me get this thing working right. Frustrating.

Please post pics of your mash tun setup for us to look at and evauluate.

One pic is worth about 5 pages of Q&A.

Here's a couple of pics of my jaybird conversion for example. The second pic is better than the first for what we're trying to do.

Notice that gap around the outside? A buddy took one look at that and we were lining the rim with silicon hose to prevent the grain from going in there.

ok. here are some pictures. i see you put your hinges on the top side. is there an advantage to that?

worldzfree said:

I have about three brews done on my new Brutus 10 styled system I built and each time I have been having issues during the recirculation and fly sparge getting grains under the false bottom and coming out through the dip tube. I am looking for some help figuring out what to try to prevent this from happening.

Here are the details of the system. Single tier Brutus 10 style system. Using kegs I converted as the vessels. The false bottom is a Jaybird folding false bottom (without the handle or supports underneath). The dip tube end has been cut to fit about an inch off the bottom of the keggle. I use a monster mill MM2-2.0 mill with a gap I have set at .043." I have made a couple 10 gallon batches and one five gallon batch all with the same results of getting grains coming through.

It's bugging the crap out of me that I get a descent amount of particulates getting pumped over to the BK. The goal is a minute level. Any idears?

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I posted this over at Jaybird's thread, but I'll just copy it here. Hope it helps - it certainly made my problems go away.

I've used this false bottom for about 20 batches. A few times I've had problems with "stuck sparges". I'm sure it was the pickup tube. It gets right against the bottom of my keggle and gets clogged. I recognized this problem when I first got the false bottom and sliced slots in it, but that didn't fix the problem. The following did. I highly recommend anyone with problems just cut away part of the bottom of the dip tube as I did (I used my angle grinder with a cutting disk). That's about a 1/4" cut away.

In the one close-up photo you have it looks right against the wall, but on the big pictures it looks like some of the sides might have a gap. If you force it all to one side, do you have any gaps anywhere? You probably just need to line it with a hose.

Wouldn't putting the hinges on top force the FB to stay folded out with the weight of the grain and the pickup tube clamp? The way you have yours oriented it looks like any downward pressure near the center would cause the FB to fold upwards. Just a thought.

Reelale said:

Wouldn't putting the hinges on top force the FB to stay folded out with the weight of the grain and the pickup tube clamp? The way you have yours oriented it looks like any downward pressure near the center would cause the FB to fold upwards. Just a thought.

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Nope. I can see why you'd think that, but it's folded the correct way (i.e., lift the handle there and it will tent upwards). I've got the exact same setup and I'm certain my dip tube was getting pressed against the bottom of my keggle. The cutout fixed that.

Ah, I see that in both examples now. I have Jaybird's 12" FB in a bottom-drain keg mashtun. It justs sits in there, nothing to hold it down but the weight of the grain. I have a MM-2 set at .045 and I get a little bit of grain into the BK when first draining. I filter the runnings through a hop spider.

I have the 15" Jaybird false bottom (with hinge and handle) that rests in the bottom of my mash keggle. I don't get any grain passing around it though. Are you sure you have it orientated correctly? If it came drilled for the dip tube, it's off center. If you insert the tube first, with it partially folded, then let it go flat, the dip tube will only connect into the fitting with it in one position. When I didn't have the bottom and dip tube installer correctly, I did have issues with grain getting past it, or the tube coming free. Once I installed it correctly, it was all good.

iijakii said:

In the one close-up photo you have it looks right against the wall, but on the big pictures it looks like some of the sides might have a gap. If you force it all to one side, do you have any gaps anywhere? You probably just need to line it with a hose.

Click to expand...

Update: I ended up TIG welding a little bit ago a couple of 5/16 - 18 nuts to the underside of the false bottom on either side of the dipe tube hole. I then put a couple of 5/16 -18 x 1 1/2" bolts into the nuts and mounted it up.

The attached picture shows one of the less tight areas with a dime on the gap. It's pretty tight.

Golddiggie said:

I have the 15" Jaybird false bottom (with hinge and handle) that rests in the bottom of my mash keggle. I don't get any grain passing around it though. Are you sure you have it orientated correctly? If it came drilled for the dip tube, it's off center. If you insert the tube first, with it partially folded, then let it go flat, the dip tube will only connect into the fitting with it in one position. When I didn't have the bottom and dip tube installer correctly, I did have issues with grain getting past it, or the tube coming free. Once I installed it correctly, it was all good.

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I agree that it is tricky getting the dip tube just right. The way you describe putting the dip tube and the false bottom is how I have to do it.

I know others mention there is initial grain but I always been under the perception that after recirculating for a little bit the grain bed will set and I shouldn't see any particulates.

worldzfree said:

I know others mention there is initial grain but I always been under the perception that after recirculating for a little bit the grain bed will set and I shouldn't see any particulates.

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Mine runs very very clear after circulating for a few minutes. I did a kolsch yesterday and it looked like bud light once I diverted the wort to the boil kettle (better not taste that way)

Actually that's not really a bad price for a full false bottom for a sankey keg, actually quite reasonable, wish I had seen it before I get what I got but the Jaybird false bottoms seem to have a good reputation so I will keep my fingers crossed

OneHoppyGuy said:

Broken record... spendy but the best I've used is the Pico style false bottom

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Hi there,
I was wondering if you ever got that issue with grain getting through your false bottom figured out? I have the same issue. I have a jaybird false bottom with no hole drilled for the pickup tube because my keg drains from the bottom. I didn’t notice how much was getting through until I put a grant on my system. The grant ends up with about 2 cups of grain in it after and 10 gal batch. I can get it clear with recirculating but about half way through the sparge I will see some grain bits come through and the wort will even get cloudy then clear again. And every so often the valve gets clogged and if I open it a bit to let the clog through then more crap comes through. I was pumping straight from the mash tun to the kettle and I guess I wasn’t noticing it because of the volume of wort in the kettle but now it is visible and driving me crazy. The one good thing is that the grant seems to catch a lot of it. I even put a braided thing on it to help.

I noticed this same problem with my jaybird flase bottom. I have a dip tube.

But I figured out the problem was due to having issues with my grain mill. I was forced to re-grind some of my grain which I think resulted in having a portion of my grain being too finely ground. This resulted in exactly what you are descibing.

I brewed yesterday and managed to grind ALL my grain properly with one pass and I had clear wort all through sparging and no stuck sparge and complete drain out of the mash tun.

So perhaps your grind is too fine?

I thought so too until I did a few different sized grins ranging from 0.027” to 0.40”. Last weekend I grinded at 0.040 on a 3 roller mill and same thing. To be honest it seemed that less got through on the finer crushes.