KBS Clone Recipe in Zymurgy!

Awesome! This may be a good reason to finally pick up a bourbon barrel...

Five weeks after brewing, my KBS clone stopped at 1.030 and wouldn't move.

After a LOT of research, I pitched some US-05 onto it. Within a few hours it was bubbling again. Hoping it gets down below 1.020...maybe even to 1.017ish. We shall see.

brewbobaggins said:

Five weeks after brewing, my KBS clone stopped at 1.030 and wouldn't move.

After a LOT of research, I pitched some US-05 onto it. Within a few hours it was bubbling again. Hoping it gets down below 1.020...maybe even to 1.017ish. We shall see.

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Just bumping to see if anyone had any updates. I posted in another thread that the Jim Beam Devils Cut has a big oak finish to it, I'll probably skip the chips/cubes when I make this.

I shared a 2012 and a 2011 KBS with some friends the other night. The 2011 was notably dryer and we preferred it to the 2012 version. I don't believe beer will dry out much in the bottle over a year, so I attribute this to a recipe change. I used a refractometer and the ABV on the bottle to estimate the final gravity of each:

2011: 1.026
2012: 1.029

A hydrometer would be more accurate, of course, but I wasn't about to degas ~6 oz of each KBS!! It was hard enough sacrificing the 50 mL or so I needed to degas for the refractometer...

I haven't seen any references to the 'actual' FG of KBS, so I thought I would post this for those looking to clone it!

For 1.092 OG to finish at over 10-11% abv, KBS has to finish a lot drier than 1.026/1.029 FG. For that reason, I'm pretty sure the true FG is below 1.020. The only reasons I can think of that would prove this wrong would be if the real OG of KBS was actually much higher than 1.092... or if your readings were faulty. You cannot accurately gauge the FG of a carbed, conditioned beer.

bobbrews said:

For 1.092 OG to finish at over 10-11% abv, KBS has to finish a lot drier than 1.026/1.029 FG. For that reason, I'm pretty sure the true FG is below 1.020. The only reasons I can think of that would prove this wrong would be if the real OG of KBS was actually much higher than 1.092... or if your readings were faulty. You cannot accurately gauge the FG of a carbed, conditioned beer.

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I suspect that the real KBS has an OG of about 1.110-1.115; as others have noted, the Zymurgy recipe does not get you to 11.2% abv. peregrinebio hit an OG of 1.111 and notes it was very close to the real deal (Post #77).

I see no reason a FG measurement from a degassed room temperature sample of commercial beer is any different than the FG before kegging/bottling.

At one time though, wasn't KBS in the 10% abv range? I don't remember if it was always 11.2%

To answer your second concern, perhaps the priming sugar and the yeast developed by feeding them more sugar at this stage has some effect on achieving a slightly higher FG.

sivdrinks said:

Just bumping to see if anyone had any updates. I posted in another thread that the Jim Beam Devils Cut has a big oak finish to it, I'll probably skip the chips/cubes when I make this.

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UPDATE: After pitching US-05 yeast, I got it to ferment down to 1.022, which was my target FG. I put some bourbon-soaked oak chips in the bottling bucket, let it sit for an hour or so, stirred gently and bottled.

Opened up the first bottle this week. Holy crap. Best beer I've ever brewed. I'm a huge stout fan, and this is one of the most complex stouts I've ever had. The chocolate is subtle, the coffee is sweet, and the bourbon/oakiness is perfectly subdued. Damn I love this beer.

Notes: I stayed very close to the original post-er's recipe. I used nibs too.

bobbrews said:

At one time though, wasn't KBS in the 10% abv range? I don't remember if it was always 11.2%

To answer your second concern, perhaps the priming sugar and the yeast developed by feeding them more sugar at this stage has some effect on achieving a slightly higher FG.

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Not sure if they have upped the ABV of more recent batches, but it's certainly possible. I've only had the 2011 and 2012 KBS.

I don't believe KBS is bottle carbed, so there would be no addition of sugar/yeast at bottling.

I prefer a dryer stout, so when I make this I will be shooting for something that finishes near 1.020

FRS said:

I don't believe KBS is bottle carbed, so there would be no addition of sugar/yeast at bottling.

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But all in all, it is still carbonated from residual yeast eating sugars (or more added yeast - we don't really know)... whether that is from priming sugar, or the sugars inherent in the bourbon or both.

This is what I'm looking at:
http://hopville.com/recipe/1255790/russian-imperial-stout-recipes/jbs-clone

Will probably do this in about a month, when I can take another Friday off of work.

Curious if anyone using the "bigger" recipe (the one with 15lbs of 2-row) has tried to get another beer out of the grains using a parti-gyle process? Was hoping to do this beer next weekend and was thinking about trying to squeeze something else out of the grains but I'm not really sure it would be worth it.

I brewed this up a few months ago and aged it in my 5 gallon whiskey barrel. HOLY CRAP this is an amazing beer. I adjusted the recipe some to get it up to 11%, I ended up having to add some DME and I also added about a pound of cane sugar to dry it out a bit, but I hit right at 11%.

Quick question... If one were to enter this into a competition, which category would you enter it in... Imperial Stout? or Wood Aged?

I think it would best fit as a specialty beer (23) as a KBS clone or bourbon-barrel oatmeal stout with chocolate and coffee.

I'm getting ready to brew this in the next week or so (slightly bigger version to account for my lower efficiency) and I just wanted to ask what you guys used for the Belgian bittersweet chocolate and where you got it. Thanks!

I bought mine at Whole Foods.... I couldn't find anything that was listed as being from Belgium, but I did find some bitter sweet chocolate that was listed as being made with a process and on equipment that is the same as traditional European choclotiers.

axeman9182 said:

I'm getting ready to brew this in the next week or so (slightly bigger version to account for my lower efficiency) and I just wanted to ask what you guys used for the Belgian bittersweet chocolate and where you got it. Thanks!

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we used Ghirardelli 60% cacao bittersweet baking chips which were on sale.
For cacao nibs we used http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ELL9GI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Did you all really throw the chocolate additions in at 15min? I thought I read somewhere that chocolate additions should be added at flameout, or secondary.

I'm sure we followed it as posted in the original thread. this was 2 years ago

I went back and checked - I used chocolate chips at flameout - I doubt I bothered searching for Belgian chocolate. I just drank the last of this recipe last night. After cellaring for a year, the chocolate and coffee mellowed nicely.

May be a dumb question, but when I enter this into beer smith I am getting an OG, SRM, and IBU less than what was on the original post (same thing with the higher gravity version with 15 lbs of 2 row). Am I entering in something wrong with the chocolate or something else? With the original recipe I am getting an OG of 1.083 at 75% efficiency, IBU of 53.3, and SRM of 43.1

Just brewed on 10/14. Adjusted to my equipment and got an OG of 1.094. Plan to leave it in the Primary for a month and transfer to a 5 gallon Bourbon Barrel for a few months. I will post the results when it is time to drink.

Just pulled a hydrometer sample to check gravity in the primary. The gravity is 1.024. According to beersmith, the estimated final gravity was 1.024.

As for the taste, it was great. Probably the best hydrometer sample I can remember. Makes me not want to barrel treat it as it is already so good. But since I have invested in the barrel, it will be going into the barrel for three months to age. I will let you know the final results in a few months.

If I were to add bourbon to the bottle how much? Overall I'd go with 8oz per 5 gallons which only comes out to .5ml, sounds way too low.

I just brewed the AHS Whiskey Stout and I used a cup of Bourbon added to the secondary with oak chips for the 5 gallon batch. It is plenty for my taste.

kirkenka said:

I just brewed the AHS Whiskey Stout and I used a cup of Bourbon added to the secondary with oak chips for the 5 gallon batch. It is plenty for my taste.

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Thanks. Ran some numbers and that comes out to about 4ml per 12oz bottle.

A friend and I made a 10 gallon batch of this last week. I used US 05 and its already done. Finished at 1.015 or so. A little lower than I had anticipated, but 05 is a beast so I shouldn't be surprised. The sample tasted so good. Can't wait to add the cold steeped coffee, oak and bourbon

The finished product. We only left in the barrel for 20 days after several tastings. The beer is terrific.

What kind of coffee did everyone use in the secondary? Is Kona really all that necessary? Did you all add it in secondary or during bottling?

flabyboy said:

What kind of coffee did everyone use in the secondary? Is Kona really all that necessary? Did you all add it in secondary or during bottling?

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I used Sumatra. Grounds at the end of the boil and Cold Pressed in the barrel.

Do 'toasted' french oak chips work for this? How about these from midwest?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064OB726/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I would try using American oak personally, but certainly no expert. Bourbon is supposed to be aged on new American oak barrels. I think there are probably some different notes that come with French oak compared to American. If you really wanted, you could probably find some whiskey, scotch, etc aged on French oak and some on American to see if you can tell the difference.

Was wondering in the real deal KBS, which I have never had, and which I understand they age in bourbon barrels, do they actually add bourbon or do the idea that the some bourbon leeches into the wood and from there, back into the beer? I'm wondering if the 11.2% ABV comes entirely from the grist or if some comes from whiskey either purposefully added, or diffused into the beer. I would imagine, the bourbon barrels are dry before they rack the beer into them. I wonder whiskey or alcohol from the barrel itself would actually get into to beer. I've heard stories about buying old barrels, and filing them with a couple gallons of water and let them soak and slosh around in the summer rolling them around the yard for a few days, that you end up with a dilute whisky win this manner.

Reason I'm wondering is that 11.2 all grain beer is pretty huge feat to brew and I agree with some folks, that a lower FG is more enjoyable than trying to drink a 1.030 or higher monster like this is likely to produce. I'd probably want to run a very low mash temp or thin things with some corn sugar I'm thinking, but then again, I've never had the real KBS...

I've got a quart mason jar filled with oak chips and soaking in Jameson since march (5 months so far) that I'm probably going to pitch into the brew before bottling. I am hoping the extended contact with the whisky will be all the oak contact time I need. I was planning a 10 gallon finished batch size, but that might be a tall order for a whopping 1.110 OG brew. Not sure if I should use the chips, the whisky, or both to add to the beer.

TD

TrickyDick said:

I would try using American oak personally, but certainly no expert. Bourbon is supposed to be aged on new American oak barrels. I think there are probably some different notes that come with French oak compared to American. If you really wanted, you could probably find some whiskey, scotch, etc aged on French oak and some on American to see if you can tell the difference.

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Quoting myself now... got home and read the recipe posted in zymurgy and indeed it does call for FRENCH oak.

TD

Ok. Found the article and have been fiddling a bit with the recipe. Seems the srm and IBU aren't what Beersmith calculates, but I don't know where they figure in the srm contribution of the coffee and chocolate, so I am not going to try and adjust the color at all. Hops needed significant adjustment. I also bumped the gravity up to est 1.103 OG, and Beersmith predicts a FG of 1.019 and ABV 11.16 which I would be very happy to achieve.

I plan to brew 10 gallons, which will really be maxing out my mash tun at a hare over 36.6 pounds of grain. I could probably pull off a 1.5 quart / pound, but I might scale back to 1.4 and maybe throw in some extra base malt to bring up to 37 pounds even to make up for any lost points or off peak efficiency ( I'm usually 79-81%).

It seems my planned oak addition ( full mason jar 1 qt) is probably on the heavy handed side of things so I might scale that back or weigh out the specified half ounce (doubling the amount for doubled batch size) in dry chips and eyeball the whisky soaked chips to get a rough idea how much to add. The recommended 2-6 months seems like a long time on the oak to me. Is it incorrect to double the amount of oak for a double in batch size? I have only once previously oaked a beer, and it was far too "oakey" for me, a regular strength mildly hopped IPA. This brew here is much bigger and can probably stand up to more oak I would think, but I certainly don't want to have a repeat of my last experience with oak.

Ditto on the chocolate and coffee. Double amounts for doubled batch size seem right?

TD

I brewed this up last weekend and my numbers were way low, I had an OG around 1.075 and I am NEVER that low on my brews. Because I am this low, can anyone help me out with what to do for the oaking and bourbon?

My idea is to add a little less oak and bourbon since I will not have nearly as I of a gravity as I should have. If I put the normal amounts in, I think the oak/bourbon flavors would be overbearing?

Any help is appreciated, at this point, I just have to hope that this stout turns out somewhat decent.

barhoc11 said:

Any help is appreciated, at this point, I just have to hope that this stout turns out somewhat decent.

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If you've been soaking your oak cubes (not chips) in bourbon, I'd strain off the bourbon and only add the cubes. Then just periodically taste the beer until it hits your desired oakiness/bourboness. It's going to take a couple of months for those flavors to come out in your beer regardless of the gravity.

OK.

Need some advice.

I plugged in the data from the Zymurgy article into Beersmith.

I scaled to my batch size.

My Mash tun can't handle the grist!

Looks like I'd need a 21 gallon mash tun just for the grist with no head space!

Maybe I should just brew a smaller batch. How does the math work for decreasing the base malt and adding extract to cover the difference?

Thanks!

TD

Hmmm... I brewed a 17 lb FBS clone in a 10 gallon pot with BIAB. There wasn't much extra room but it worked.

Yeah, I just ended up scaling down to a smaller batch size. 8 gallons instead of 11. 26.5 pound of grain approx. my tun hold 15 gallons. The full 11 gal was over 21 gallons.

When i have that problem, i do as mush mash as i can and thrn just use extract for the amount of 2 row it wont handle.