Questions on running fuel for a brew rig.

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ghart999

ghart999

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Hi all. I am starting to build a single tier brew stand with 3 burners capable of doing 10 gallon batches.
I am not set on burners yet as I am debating about doing NG versus propane. I have a NG line that terminates outside my house about 10 feet from where I need to brew which is great. However, I have no idea how big the gas line is right there. Can I tell based on the outside diameter how big it is? Also what the minimum size that would be acceptable to run 2 burners simultaneously at near full bore?
Lastly, we building a gas bar like I see everyone doing on their rigs, can I just place a gas ball valve at the inlet of each burner and turn them on/off as needed? I don’t plan on any fancy automation. I just want to light them with a lighter as needed and be able to successfully run 2 burners at a time when needed. Also I assume a single regulator for either propane or NG would just be enough and I wouldn’t need one for each burner right?
For burners I am leaning towards the Hurricane or Banjo burners whether I do NG or propane.

Thanks all.
 
ghart999 said:
Hi all. I am starting to build a single tier brew stand with 3 burners capable of doing 10 gallon batches.
I am not set on burners yet as I am debating about doing NG versus propane. I have a NG line that terminates outside my house about 10 feet from where I need to brew which is great. However, I have no idea how big the gas line is right there. Can I tell based on the outside diameter how big it is? Also what the minimum size that would be acceptable to run 2 burners simultaneously at near full bore?
Click to expand...

This isn't an easy answer ghart999. Gas pipe is sized based on BTUH requirement and distance from the meter, as well as the total draw of the system (for the main line in the house). Without knowing what the total BTUH draw is, and what your main line in your house was rated for in BTUH, no one will be able to answer 100%.

The outside diameter will tell you the size of the pipe, but the distance to the farthest existing appliance (from the meter), and overall BTUH draw on the system weigh in, so again, without more info, no 100% answer can be given.

If you look at the rating plates for all existing NG appliances, you will know total current draw, and there MAY be a plate on the pipe running off the meter that specifies what the piping system is rated for in draw.

If there is available capacity, the next step is to determine the BTUH draw of the burners, which is governed by the regulator(s) you have.

If you can get that info, I can certainly look in my code books (which are for Canada, so may not be code for you, but will be safe), and let you know. PM me if so, I may not see this thread again.
 
I agree that the answer isn't easy. If you measure the line you see outside, assuming it's black pipe you'd subtract about 1/4" to find the ID. You also have to measure the length of that run until it hits the next larger trunk. I'm running on the borderline for sure via a 32' run of 1/2" before it hits the 1" trunk.

Make sure that line isn't TEE'd off a 1/2" line of another major unit like a furnace or water heater.

If you've got less than 20' for 1/2", you're probably fine. If it's 3/4", you're in really good shape. I have a tap off of a 3/4" run that I put in when I was running the line for my NG grill and I've run my rig off that and the flame is noticeably better.
 
OK. Thanks all. I will have to do some research tonight. It tees off right next to a gas fireplace.
 
A 1/2" pipe is a little under 7/8" (0.840)OD, 3/4 is a little over 1" (1.050) OD, and 1' is about 1&5/16" (1.340) OD. The safest way to run your brew rig on NG is to make a new connection at your meter. There is typically a tee fitting on the outlet of your gas meter with one opening plugged. Shut off the gas at the meter, unscrew the plug, scew in a short nipple with a shut off valve (SOV) on the other end. Leavind the new SOV closed (and locked if possible), you can turn the gas back on at the meter, then go inside and check for proper operation of appliances. Most water heaters have standing pilots, so you'll have to relight that, at least. Unless your kitchen stove, clothes dryer or furnace are antiques, they'll have electronic ignition, so no worries there.

Now, with your new branch SOV still closed, you can extend the piping to your brew rig. You can google gas pipe sizing to get a chart to make sure your diameter will be large enough for the length you wind up at from the meter.
 
If you can make Natural Gas work for you do it. I started off with propane and the refills get expensive. Natural Gas is much less expensive and in my personal opinion a little safer. Just my 2 cents FWIW.
 
The problem with running a line from the gas meter, is that the meter is exactly on the other side of the house and a ***** to try and deal with. I do have my hot water heater and furnace in the basement, not supper far from the place I need to brew. Its in the basement with a crawl space, so I might be able to run something from there if needed.
 
ghart999, when I first replied, I thought I had read that you have an existing line that ends approx 10' from where you want to brew. If this isn't the case, I suggest that you need to call a licensed gas fitter in your area to install a line that will service the site you need.

Please, unless you are qualified to do so, don't add a branch line to your main line. Tying in with a soft connection is something that quite a few people on this board can help with I am sure, but a hard connection is a different matter.

If you don't want to take my word (as a random internet guy), call your insurance company for some free advice.

Natural Gas explosions happen too often in houses around the world.
 
No I do not need to run from the main line. I was responding to someone else who suggested that I do. I do in fact have an existing line about 10' from my brew area. I just don't know how thick the line is yet.
 
What's the diameter? 7/8" black pipe should be 1/2", 1 1/8" for 3/4". I would keep it at 3/4" long as you can until at the disconnect flex hose at the brewing rig. Lack of flow results in lack of BTU's of heat output. Most heating is into the air even with NG but way cheaper than propane. JMO go electric.
 
OK. I have 3/4" running about 40-50 feet to the side of the house where I need the gas to be available. It runs from the main junction where my hot water heater and furnace is.

Can I assume that that long a run of 3/4" pipe will give me sufficient BTU for 2 burners at a time going full tilt?

I would add about 6 more feet or 3/4" pipe to bring the piping into the garage and then terminate with a gas ball valve and then add the flex hose line. I probably only need about 12 feet of flex line from the 3/4" ball valve. Would I go with 3/4" flex line or use 1/2"?

Also what about the entire gas manifold being built onto the brewstand? 3/4" or 1/2"?

Thanks all.
 
ghart999 said:
OK. I have 3/4" running about 40-50 feet to the side of the house where I need the gas to be available. It runs from the main junction where my hot water heater and furnace is.

Can I assume that that long a run of 3/4" pipe will give me sufficient BTU for 2 burners at a time going full tilt?

I would add about 6 more feet or 3/4" pipe to bring the piping into the garage and then terminate with a gas ball valve and then add the flex hose line. I probably only need about 12 feet of flex line from the 3/4" ball valve. Would I go with 3/4" flex line or use 1/2"?

Also what about the entire gas manifold being built onto the brewstand? 3/4" or 1/2"?

Thanks all.
Click to expand...
The final gas line diameters would be better answered by gas fired brewers as i've been full electric for years. I used old cast iron furnace burners and they would reduce their flame height when I ran app 17' of 1/2" pipe with a 1/2" brass heater flex line. Someone with a gas brewery plus adding up the burner BTU size would answer better than me.
 
I ran 25 feet of 5/8" red rubber water hose off a 1/2" tee from my water heater supply to my driveway and run 2 hurricane burners simultaneously with no problem. My water heater is in the front of the garage with 1/2" pipe fed from my attic which it comes off a 3/4" pipe there.

Brewcart 3.jpg
 
KopyKat said:
I ran 25 feet of 5/8" red rubber water hose off a 1/2" tee from my water heater supply to my driveway and run 2 hurricane burners simultaneously with no problem. My water heater is in the front of the garage with 1/2" pipe fed from my attic which it comes off a 3/4" pipe there.
Click to expand...

That sounds good your able to run off a 5/8" rubber line, I would question the use of 1/2" rubber or flexable line at that distance. This bring up another question is whats the NG pressure your dealing with in inches of water, is this standardized across the country so we're speaking on a level playing field here? Maybe a HBT member in the NG line of work could shed some light on this topic besides posting charts on pressure drops to line diameters and lengths of runs that that handle the amount of BTU's of output at the end of the run.
Too many unknowns besides specs by standard codes if they are required for the proper heating BTU results. My take on this topic.
 
Damn this is confusing already. Maybe I am better off sticking with propane.
 
The benefit of NG is worth giving it a try before skipping it entirely. You'll have plenty of gas with all that 3/4" (you mean ID right?). 1/2" pipe on the rig is fine and I'd go either 5/8 or 3/4" ID on the flex line to the stand.
 

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