American IPA Bell's Two Hearted Ale Clone (close as they come)

Brewed this on Friday, with the following changes:

Reduced 60min hops to .75 and added the extra .25 at 45 minutes
Mashed at 151-152
I will dry hop with 1oz for 7 days

Sounds great! Let us know how that bittering schedule works for you.

Comparison: easchatz recipe brewed twice, first batch using WLP051 and second batch using Nottingham.

Conclusion:
The Nottingham makes a drier, crisper, thinner beer. The WLP051 seems to have more body and slightly sweeter. My conclusion is that the WPL051 came closer to producing the TH clone then with Notty. Both beers are very good and it comes down to personal taste.

What I have come to focus on is the balance between sweetness and bittering. I like when the bitterness cuts the sweetnes to creat a clean, dry taste. For me Notty cleans up the beer so well that it creates something that is more crisp (less sweet) then WLP051. WLP051 leaves behined a slightly sweeter beer that, for me, is balanced very well by 55 IBU's of Centennial making for a well balanced TH clone.

All that being said the real truth comes out when a second batch produces the exact same beer. I'm brewing again this weekend using WLP051 to see if I can duplicate batch one.

dmaher said:

Comparison: easchatz recipe brewed twice, first batch using WLP051 and second batch using Nottingham.

Conclusion:
The Nottingham makes a drier, crisper, thinner beer. The WLP051 seems to have more body and slightly sweeter. My conclusion is that the WPL051 came closer to producing the TH clone then with Notty. Both beers are very good and it comes down to personal taste.

What I have come to focus on is the balance between sweetness and bittering. I like when the bitterness cuts the sweetnes to creat a clean, dry taste. For me Notty cleans up the beer so well that it creates something that is more crisp (less sweet) then WLP051. WLP051 leaves behined a slightly sweeter beer that, for me, is balanced very well by 55 IBU's of Centennial making for a well balanced TH clone.

All that being said the real truth comes out when a second batch produces the exact same beer. I'm brewing again this weekend using WLP051 to see if I can duplicate batch one.

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This is what I'm looking for. Thanks for the info. I'll brew my next batch with 051 and see how it works. Awesome job!

eschatz, are you still using?

10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.92 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 15.38 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %

I notice a few reply's back that someone had changed but didn't know if you had kept to your original.

I keep to my original but I'm thinking about changing some things. It's an evolving beer. Pretty much whatever beer you go with from this thread is going to be great. The question is how close are we getting to Bell's 2 Hearted!

I'm dry hopping this with 4 oz of centennial right now. hopefully this will bring that big aroma that I'm looking for. it'll be on the hops for 7 days.

Are you using leaf hops for the dry? I find much more pleasant aroma then pellet.

Brewed these two this weekend. All hops were leaf from FreshHops.

Two Hearted Clone - I used the hop schedule from BYO recipe just to see the difference. Also the BYO recipe calls for Crystal 10L rather than 20L so I changed that as well.
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.92 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 15.38 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
2.00 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (Dry Hop 9 days) Hops -
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (45 min) Hops 16.5 IBU
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (30 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.9 IBU
1.25 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) Yeast-Ale


Simcoe IPA Clone Variation - I know this is a TH thread but the base grain recipe that eschatz has come up with is solid. I just up'd the Pale Malt by 2lbs (looking for a bit more alcohol) replaced Crystal 20L with Crystal 10L and stuck with eschatz hop schedule but replaced with Simco.
12.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 13.33 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.33 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.33 %
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (60 min) Hops 37.6 IBU
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (15 min) Hops 18.6 IBU
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (5 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) Yeast-Ale

dmaher said:

Are you using leaf hops for the dry? I find much more pleasant aroma then pellet.

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I used pellet hops. I usually find that the whole leaf hops that I find are not as strong as the pellets. That might just be because I'm in Indiana though.

eschatz, yeah that is a possiblity. Whole hops are the only thing I don't buy from my local hbs. I order direct from freshops or hopsdirect.

I've only dealt with leaf and whole on rare occasions and I've always been more impressed by the consistancy of pellets.

Just brewed this clone today. My concern was with the yeast so i decided to just use California ale WLP001. When i got home it turns out the lady gave me California V ale WLP0051. Hopefully this works out better? OG is at 1.064 so i know i did something right. Using 1lb of Crystal 10L, and 4 1oz centennial hops at 0, 40, 55 min, then final oz in the dry hop in secondary.

Just racked my 10 gal batch to secondary. 1.014 FG. Dry hopped with 1 oz. centenial. Smelled yummy! Can't wait to taste.

For a 10gal batch dry hop with 2 oz. Take it off of the hops after 7 days. You'll love the beer.

Has anyone tried hopbursting this recipe? Here's an article by Jamil about it.

Fourteen Essential Questions About Yeast Starters

Ok, these two going to keg, cool and carbonate. One note, the WLP051 took 17 days to reach 1.012. I didn't use a starter and only shook carboy to airate. Didn't go to secondary as gravity wasn't reached. I added dry hops day 13/14. Stored at 68. Gravity sample tasted very good.

Two Hearted Clone - I used the hop schedule from BYO recipe just to see the difference. Also the BYO recipe calls for Crystal 10L rather than 20L so I changed that as well.
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.92 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 15.38 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
2.00 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (Dry Hop 9 days) Hops -
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (60 min) Hops 18.0 IBU
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (45 min) Hops 16.5 IBU
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (30 min) Hops 13.8 IBU
0.75 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (15 min) Hops 8.9 IBU
1.25 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) Yeast-Ale


Simcoe IPA Clone Variation - I know this is a TH thread but the base grain recipe that eschatz has come up with is solid. I just up'd the Pale Malt by 2lbs (looking for a bit more alcohol) replaced Crystal 20L with Crystal 10L and stuck with eschatz hop schedule but replaced with Simco.
12.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 13.33 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.33 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.33 %
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (60 min) Hops 37.6 IBU
2.00 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (15 min) Hops 18.6 IBU
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (5 min) Hops 7.5 IBU
1.25 oz Simcoe [12.20 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) Yeast-Ale

Everyone who loves hoppy beers should buy the Hop Lovers Guide from BYO. There is great info and a ton of great recipes. Here is the recipe for TH.

Two Hearted BYO Recipe
OG=1.058, FG-1.012
IBU=56 SRM=8 ABV=5.9%

9.0lbs 5oz 2-row pale malt
2.0lbs Vienna malt
0.5lbs crystal (10 L)
0.33lbs Carapils malt (6 L)

5.5 AAU Centennial 60
5.5 AAU Centennial 45
5.5 AAU Centennial 30
5.5 AAU Centennial 15
.33oz Centennial (0 min)
.33oz Centennial (dry hop)

Wyeast 1272 or WLP051 or yeast cultured from bottle of TH

Mash at 152 for 60
Boil for 75
Ferment at 70
Dry hop for three days in secondary

I made the recipe in the OP 10 days ago with harvested yeast from two bottles of TH. Only got 68% efficiency, but this was my first AG, so I'm pretty happy with that.

Just transferred to secondary today. The Bell's yeast took it from 1.058 to 1.010 for an apparent attenuation of 82%. The hydrometer sample tasted great (way better than any extract hydro samples I have tasted). SWMBO was impressed. TH is her favorite beer, and she said that the hydro sample definitely reminded her of it. I definitely recommend harvesting some TH yeast if you can. Seems to be a very good strain for a nice, clean IPA.

Currently dry-hopping with 1 oz. of centennial.

I can't wait to taste the finished version.

dmaher said:

Everyone who loves hoppy beers should buy the Hop Lovers Guide from BYO. There is great info and a ton of great recipes. Here is the recipe for TH.

Two Hearted BYO Recipe
OG=1.058, FG-1.012
IBU=56 SRM=8 ABV=5.9%

9.0lbs 5oz 2-row pale malt
2.0lbs Vienna malt
0.5lbs crystal (10 L)
0.33lbs Carapils malt (6 L)

5.5 AAU Centennial 60
5.5 AAU Centennial 45
5.5 AAU Centennial 30
5.5 AAU Centennial 15
.33oz Centennial (0 min)
.33oz Centennial (dry hop)

Wyeast 1272 or WLP051 or yeast cultured from bottle of TH

Mash at 152 for 60
Boil for 75
Ferment at 70
Dry hop for three days in secondary

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Awesome! I was pretty close!

dcgrp said:

... SWMBO was impressed. TH is her favorite beer,...

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Hang on to that one!

Attended a local, Grand Rapids MI, Beerapalooza last night. In attendance was Bell's. I spoke to the Bell's rep about TH recipe and he said to cultivate the yeast from Amber Al or Pale Al. Same yeast and you'll have much better luck. He said because of dry hopping the TH much of the yeast is removed. I didn't quite understand this unless they filter before the dry hop? I then looked at the bottle of Amber Al and sure enough there was a bunch of "nice" sediment floating around. I'll pull a six pack tonight and start the cultivating.

By the way the Simco hopped recipe I made above is ok but not great. Very strong Grapefruit flavor. I guess I can see why I could only find one commercially made Simcoe beer. Probably won't due this one again.

I believe the Widmer Drifter is all Simcoe. It's the best thing I've ever tasted from that brewery.

Thanks for the info on the Amber and Pale Ale. That'll come in useful in the quest!

Well I cultivated the yeast from 3 Bell's Amber Ale and 3 Bell's Pale Ale. Opened the bottles, flamed the tops, collected the last 1/2 oz of beer. Boiled a pint of water with 1/2 cup of LDME, cooled, added to flask, capped with foil, put on a stir plate. Had a bunch of foam within 48 hours. Boiled a quart with 1 cup of LDME added to flask. Now have a significant Krausen. May step up one more time.

Questions: for those who have done this. Have you poured off most of the liquid and just pitched the yeast? I assume I need to use this ASAP and shouldn't refrigerate for the weekend?

When I poured from a 2L starter, I did pour off. It does survive as well as any other yeast. I have harvested and both me and one other HBT'r have had success with the 2 generation run.

PING Rick? How did it come out?

Here is 10 gal of Two Hearted Clone fellow HBT'er B and I made on sunday. Its a slight variation of this recipe and BYO's. We propogated yeast from several bottles Two Hearted.

Thanks for the pic. If you could drop that beer about 4 degrees from 68F you'd get a cleaner profile (even though 68 is a little high it'll make great beer). I'm sure you're gonna love it either way!

is 64-65 a good rule of thumb for an ale yeast that doesn't have a specific ferment temp like wyeast strain (ie the harvested bell's yeast)? Does anyone know of a good resource for such info?

Yeah, 64F, 66F, that range is good.

I have read though, that Bell's actually ferments Two-Hearted at 78F. I find that really warm, but someone who took the brewery tour saw a cheat sheet taped to a wall in the brewery that had all the fermentation temps for their ales. (I think I read that here somewhere.)

Having fermented this beer, at 64, I would find it hard to believe that the profile would work at 78. I'd say mine, first shot, was about 80% there. I think that a lower mash will give the mouthfeel boost that I lacked, and a slight adjustment on the hops will get me PDC. Love this beer, most of the house guests drink the APA's , which is fine for me

I used yeast from the same batch that Larry used (I think you used it in your 2HA clone anyway...?), but I was brewing a different IPA... I fermented at about 66F and it turned out very well. I don't know how it would turn out at 78F...but I will say that I'm brewing this one again and I'm going to ferment at the same 66F I did last time.

i'll cool it tonight in a waterbath to try to cool it a bit

Here are a couple of pictures of the cultivated yast from Bell's Amber and Pale. I'm headed to the Bell's Bar in Kalamazoo tomorrow. Can't wait. It's always fun to see what specialties they have on tap that don't make it to the public market.

pics are not loaded

I'm doing this version -- a 3 gallon partial mash, based on evaluating all available recipes here and elsewhere and going for what my 2-gallon mini-mash tun can hold and what sounds good:

1.5 lbs 2-row
1.25 lbs Vienna Malt
.25 lbs Caramel Pils
.25 Crystal 20L
3 lbs LME

Sound about right?

I am making my starter right now (using WLP001). I bought 3 oz of Centennial hops (can freeze any overage). I've tinkered in Beersmith with various schedules. I'm also thinking that since I'm doing a mini-mash I can do a late extract addition.

Any thoughts here on the hops schedule? Something like:

60 .5 oz
45 .5 oz
15 .5 oz
5 .5 oz
0 .5 oz
.25 DH

??? A little more earlier, a little less later?

thanks all. I had TH on tap a month ago and was struck by how different this beer is when it's very fresh -- a real knockout. I want to make sure this as much about aroma and mouth presence as it is sheer "hops."

-- Karen

Well, the substitution of Victory for the Vienna (required due to Home Brew Mart being out of Vienna at the time) nevertheless resulted in a spectacular beer. Whether it tastes like TH is any one's guess...But it is an amazing IPA, and I'd be apt to keep the recipe the way I brewed this one it's so great!

MeetsCriteria said:

Well, the substitution of Victory for the Vienna (required due to Home Brew Mart being out of Vienna at the time) nevertheless resulted in a spectacular beer. Whether it tastes like TH is any one's guess...But it is an amazing IPA, and I'd be apt to keep the recipe the way I brewed this one it's so great!

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I think that's the general consensus of the thread. If it tastes great why bother. We're getting alot closer to TH but I've started doing variations of this beer just because they always taste great. I'm glad you enjoy it.

How long of a conditioning time are you guys using on this beer. I brewed a very similar beer based on these recipes and am just waiting for the bitterness and flavors to meld. This is the first IPA I have brewed (I know what have I been doing?) so I don't have a good feel yet.

The aroma is incredible but the flavors just aren't there yet...

I'll second that 2 Hearted is amazing on tap! Recently went to a bar near my house and found out that their rotating cask beer was Bell's 2 Hearted. I about crapped myself I was so excited.

Work was a bit rough the next day.

Totally worth it.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

How long of a conditioning time are you guys using on this beer. I brewed a very similar beer based on these recipes and am just waiting for the bitterness and flavors to meld. This is the first IPA I have brewed (I know what have I been doing?) so I don't have a good feel yet.

The aroma is incredible but the flavors just aren't there yet...

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For me this beer finds it's peak about a month after it's kegged. I have a hard time really keeping my hands off of it because it is pretty damn good when it's green. But I know what you mean. It takes a little while for the malt to ripen to meet the abrasive hop schedule.

Well I entered this beer in the River City Roundup in Omaha and it won second place in the IPA category. Thanks for the original recipe eschatz. These where the changes I made for my brew:

tmoney1224 said:

Brewed this on Friday, with the following changes:

Reduced 60min hops to .75 and added the extra .25 at 45 minutes
Mashed at 151-152
I will dry hop with 1oz for 7 days

Click to expand...