Can you Brew It recipe for Lagunitas Little Sumpin Sumpin

samc said:

No.... 3 days for DH is not enough for this beer. 7 days is better.

As to your costs, it should be a lot less than store bought. It cost me $49 to brew 11 gallons, which is in the $.40/12 oz bottle range.

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I'll go for 7 days, but the 3 days came from this discussion: http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=23265&start=0

My cost, according to Beersmith at my per oz prices, is $44 for a 5G batch plus tax, so $47. This time I bought bottled drinking water, so add another 8 bucks, but in the future I don't know if I'll do that (I usually use tap water, but I decided to try it this time. For $.16/beer, I'll probably go back to tap water).

Here's my breakdown:
Hops $14.50 ($2.15/oz)
Grain $22.94
Yeast $6.50
Water $8.00
Total $51.94
Total + Tax $55.58
Shipping = free since BrewMaster's Warehouse is local.

Where are my costs off?

If you buy grain and hops in bulk it would be about half the cost. You could also harvest yeast to make it free (basically) and not buy water (add salts/minerals if you desire). I recently bought 100 lbs of 2row for $60, and usually get hops in bulk for ~$1/oz or less depending on the hop. I am sure others get stuff even cheaper, I just don't have the room to really bulk buy.

clark123456 said:

Here's my breakdown:
Hops $14.50 ($2.15/oz)
Grain $22.94
Yeast $6.50
Water $8.00
Total $51.94
Total + Tax $55.58
Shipping = free since BrewMaster's Warehouse is local.

Where are my costs off?

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My costs were high for this recipe too...not as high as yours, but definitely higher than my normal PAs, IPAs, and Irish Reds.

Hops: Well, this recipe does have a crazy hop bill, so my costs were elevated. For most hops of my regular hops (Warrior, Centennial, Cascade, Chinook, etc.), I buy in bulk and get it under $1/oz.

Water: I would pay for a $16.00 water test from Ward Labs and just use tap water that's either been cut with distilled and/or add salts. There's some calculators in the brewing science forum that will help with that.

Grain: The big way to save is to buy a grain mill and buy bulk grain. For my area group buy, I end up getting 2-row @ about $28 for a 55lb sack ($0.45 a pound plus a few bucks for shipping). I bought a barley crusher and it can pay for itself in about 16 batches @ 10lbs of base per batch (using $1.25 for 2-row at LHBS and $0.50 for bulk 2-row).

Yeast: I paid $6.99 for WLP002 as well since I don't use it that often. For yeasts that I use a lot (WY1084 Irish & WLP001 Cali Ale), I wash the yeast and reuse it for many batches.

Brewed this recipe mostly as-is, except used all Nugget as the 90-minute addition, and subbed Tettnang for Santiam, I believe.

Just started drinking it the past couple of days. Pretty tasty beer. I don't have the commercial beer available in my area, but I remember the real thing being much more bitter. I'm still a little confused as to why the recipe calls for low 30s IBU, and the bottle states something like low 70s, doesn't it? I also missed my OG by 8 points (came in at 1.062) somehow, which, you would think, would make the bitterness of the beer more apparent.

Anyway, it's definitely tasty, and has a great aroma from that whack of dry-hops (which I did for 7 days).

Mine came out a little fruity. I don't remember the commercial version having that flavor, but it's been a while since I've had it. Anyone else get a fruity undertone to the beer? My fermentation was 64F for 2 days, then 68F for two days, then 72F for another 4-5 days.

Could it be the 4-5 days at 72F that made it come out with the fruity esters?

I am interested to see if anyone else noticed this on their final product. I am just about to start crash cooling it now, so I will report back in a few days to see if this is just a warm flavor or if it still lingers in the keg.

-Mike

BrewThruYou said:

My costs were high for this recipe too...not as high as yours, but definitely higher than my normal PAs, IPAs, and Irish Reds.

Hops: Well, this recipe does have a crazy hop bill, so my costs were elevated. For most hops of my regular hops (Warrior, Centennial, Cascade, Chinook, etc.), I buy in bulk and get it under $1/oz.

Water: I would pay for a $16.00 water test from Ward Labs and just use tap water that's either been cut with distilled and/or add salts. There's some calculators in the brewing science forum that will help with that.

Grain: The big way to save is to buy a grain mill and buy bulk grain. For my area group buy, I end up getting 2-row @ about $28 for a 55lb sack ($0.45 a pound plus a few bucks for shipping). I bought a barley crusher and it can pay for itself in about 16 batches @ 10lbs of base per batch (using $1.25 for 2-row at LHBS and $0.50 for bulk 2-row).

Yeast: I paid $6.99 for WLP002 as well since I don't use it that often. For yeasts that I use a lot (WY1084 Irish & WLP001 Cali Ale), I wash the yeast and reuse it for many batches.

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I've pulled the trigger on the grain mill, storage containers, lids, and a scale. While I was spending money I decided to get a refractometer and a digital pocket scale for the hops.

It'll be years before I get my per beer cost down to retail levels; unless I switch to a style that is super expensive to buy at retail

Bump. Anyone, anyone?

reddskinnfan said:

Bump. Anyone, anyone?

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Bump...

I won't know for a few weeks. My fermentation has been on the warm side (70-72), so we'll know soon if that is the cause. I'm nervous now and working on a way to make my fermentation room cooler.

With all the hops I'd be hard pressed to tell fruity esters derived from fermentation. However 4 days at 68F or under would leave me to believe that your fermentation would not give you over the top esters. You are also trying to judge a beer that has not even made it to carbing, relax and check it in after a few weeks of carb & conditioning time.

Just brewed this bad boy up over the weekend. Hit 1.076 OG with around 5.75gallon post-boil volume. I upped the hoppage since I wanted my IBU's closer to around 60+. The wort smelled delicious. The only set-back is having to sit around on like 8 oz's of hops waiting to be dry-hopped, I just want to use these delicious bad-boys for another great beer. Anyway thanks for the recipe. I'll post back results. (fermenting ~65-70F, using notty, ill report back on flavors).

Ok, I was a bit behind on going to secondary due to life, but I did it tonight. The gravity reading was 1.016 at 71F. I went way to far on fermentation versus the plan and I'm sure it's mainly related to my fermentation temp (~71F). This beer will be very high in ABV and likely not hit the target...but only time, time, time will tell.

NOTE: Due to this experience (too hot) and my winter brewing experience (too cold), I broke down and built a fermentation chamber. The obsession continues a few hundred bucks at a time

Last night I opened one of the beers. It was much darker and cloudier than the real beer. It also lacked proper carbonation, which may be related to the long duration and high temperature primary fermentation. Regardless of the cause of low carbonation, it is not very good flat. The hops are ok, but until I compare it side-by-side with the real thing I won't know for sure if they're spot on. I'm not tasting nasty esters, but as another user suggested, this thing is so hopped up it's hard for me to sort through all of the aromas to pick out just one.

Just bottled this bad boy. I noticed a lot more trub from this batch made its way into the fermenter (haven't used wheat much and suspect it is the cause) than my previous batches, but the fermentation still went smoothly and even ended at a surprising 1.010 (used Notty). I did ferment a little warmer (1st week ~68-70, 2nd week 70, 3rd and forth 70-75), so that probably helped a lot. I can't conclude anything yet but the sampling I had while bottling showed a damn good beer. I will have to pick some sumptin up and do a side-by side, either way, this beer is deliciously hoppy and wheaty. Mucho Gusto.

I had another one tonight. Still flat, but a damn good beer once I get over the high alcohol content. I'll definitely try this one again with some corrections to my errors! I wouldn't return it due to flavor or aroma, but the lack of carbonation is concerning.

I brewed this one over this past weekend. Only my 3rd brew attempt but I feel good about it except that I ended up short on volume. I only ended up with 4.5 gallons at the end of boil. Gravity was right on though at 1.070. My question is should i adjust dry hopping for the lesser volume? if so how do i figure it out? I am stuck with the hopping as I followed the recipe through to that point. Thanks in advance for any info.

I would do the normal dry hop. I can't imagine how you could over dry-hop it (or any ipa).

I tried this recipe with WLP 007 dry english ale. It doesn't taste like LSS. LSS has a round sweetness in the mid palate that mine is totally missing. Also, I thought I toasted the hell out of those grains and they didn't impart a toasted flavor, so I'd suggest toasting them a whole lot. I toasted for a half hour and they weren't very dark. If they were nuts or something they would have caught on fire.

Anyways, I've got a bunch of alcoholic wheat IPA with no malt backbone to finish. It's getting better with age, but it sure isn't LSS.

EDIT: I was just tired of underattenuating yeast, sweet beers, but I learned my lesson...

I brewed this up on Friday, and tasted the primary today (wanted to check on progress). I think I might have gotten close by doing the following:

1) Used Tasty's water profile for pale ales, which has a rather high SO4 level (350 ppm). I have very soft well water, and normally add a teaspoon of Gypsum and a Teaspoon of CaCl2 to just the mash. This hasn't been getting me anywhere near his water bill. So I followed his exactly (ended up with something like 1.5 teaspoons of Gypsum in the mash, 2 in the sparge, and small amounts of CaCl2, Epsom salt, and NaCl). This is way more gypsum than I normally use.

2) I took the first Liter of mash runnings, and boiled it down to a thick syrupy deliciousness. Took about 30 mins of boiling to remove all water and caramalize. Added back into the boil with 10 minutes left.

It's still very early, so I'll report back after dry hopping, but I wanted to see what other people are using for their water salts when brewing this clone.

I feel like the water is important in getting that Lagunitas sweetness, and I also feel like all of my previous Lagunitas clones (mainly IPA) missed that toffee / caramel sweetness that Lagunitas beers seem to have. I can't believe this is strictly from their yeast, so I was thinking that maybe they crank up their boil kettle to full blast, and develop hot spots in the process that lend a bit of caramel/toffee to their beers.

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy...

cwheel said:

I brewed this up on Friday, and tasted the primary today (wanted to check on progress). I think I might have gotten close by doing the following:

1) Used Tasty's water profile for pale ales, which has a rather high SO4 level (350 ppm). I have very soft well water, and normally add a teaspoon of Gypsum and a Teaspoon of CaCl2 to just the mash. This hasn't been getting me anywhere near his water bill. So I followed his exactly (ended up with something like 1.5 teaspoons of Gypsum in the mash, 2 in the sparge, and small amounts of CaCl2, Epsom salt, and NaCl). This is way more gypsum than I normally use.

2) I took the first Liter of mash runnings, and boiled it down to a thick syrupy deliciousness. Took about 30 mins of boiling to remove all water and caramalize. Added back into the boil with 10 minutes left.

It's still very early, so I'll report back after dry hopping, but I wanted to see what other people are using for their water salts when brewing this clone.

I feel like the water is important in getting that Lagunitas sweetness, and I also feel like all of my previous Lagunitas clones (mainly IPA) missed that toffee / caramel sweetness that Lagunitas beers seem to have. I can't believe this is strictly from their yeast, so I was thinking that maybe they crank up their boil kettle to full blast, and develop hot spots in the process that lend a bit of caramel/toffee to their beers.

I don't know, maybe I'm crazy...

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How did this turn out?

::bump::

Sorry, never posted on the results. I have still yet to do a side by side comparison, but I've been saving a Lil Sumpin Sumpin for this purpose.

Overall, the beer turned out nicely. Color looks about the same, but Lagunita's clarity is much better since they filter. Mine continues to be cloudy even though I'm down to the last few beers in the keg.

I believe mine got down to 1.016, but it still doesn't quite taste as dry as the real thing. Mine is sweeter, you can detect the alcohol more, and it's a little rougher around the edges, but the taste and especially the aroma are pretty close.

From now on, when I'm brewing the Lagunitas beers, I think I'll continue to caramalize the first runnings. I'll also keep using lots of gypsum.

I'll post a side-by-side comparison this weekend if I get a chance.

I can't believe there's no citra in this.

Ive brewed this twice. Once with London ESB and another time with Persica (WLP 299) to get more apricot. The persica was a fail. This finished way too dry for the hops. The ESB finished very close but was missing the stone fruitiness. Ill repeat with the ESB and try some apricot extract. I just dont have confidence I get achieve that flavor with the grain bill.

The late hop schedule is on the money. Early hops, as you might expect are somewhat flexible in my observation. With the long list of small amounts, I just added what I had on hand. I tried to maintain the variety, but switched based on AA rather than flavor and aroma profiles.

Hope this helps other Sumpin Sumpin lovers.

I just drank this beer for the first time and was blown away. So much better than Lagunitas IPA. Immediately you could tell it had been dry hopped with Amarillo and Simcoe (as it reminded me of Duet from Alpine), and I thought there was some wheat but no way would I have guessed that much. I also would not have guessed the WLP002 yeast was used, I would have thought a west coast US strain. What surprises me from this CYBI recipe is that the IBUs seem to be quite a bit above 40 and also it seems a little drier than the suggested 1.016 that has popped up in the thread. Maybe a tad of sugar if the OG is to be kept at 1.07 or higher?

I managed to hit 1.070 using the exact grain bill they designed for 6 gallons. Brewed with RO water constructed to approximately match Mosher's Ideal Pale Ale water profile (closer to Tasty's with a calmer sodium balance), without any alkaline additions. No mash pH modification necessary since it hit 5.3 (room temp). Looking forward to seeing those hops shine, as I feel the high sulfate levels will be crucial.

First, for the people who hit 1.016 for their FG, did they start at 1.070? I know White Labs claims WLP002 has low attenuation, but perhaps this recipe's colder pitch and progressive warming lets it attenuate more than normal (diacetyl resting aside). Even Lil Sumpin's bottle claims 1.076 OG with 7.5% ABV, clearly higher than 70% attenuation. Either way, I took notes on their radio program saying that WLP002 was imperative because of the high flocculation, and it's violently fermenting away using a 2L starter. I'm guessing their brewhouse strain derived from WLP002 is more attenuative while still flocculent.

Second, nobody commented on the torrified wheat. It was like grinding rocks, my power drill tossed my mill around! I had to temporarily mill that with the handle breaking a sweat, and return to the drill for the rest of the grain bill. Next time, I think I'll interspersethe torrified kernels throughout milling.

Planning on cold crashing with some gelatin after primary so that I can reduce potential hazing that this 50% wheat bill offers. Then I'll warm up and dry hop.

Just wanted to ask some questions and throw in my two cents. Not only is this beer spectacular (my wife loves it too), but I love how it seems to challenge standard IBU and attenuation assumptions... Since I won't filter like Lagunitas, I'm hoping it's only slightly hazy from the dry hops, and has slightly better head retention from all that unfiltered wheat.

Picture attached, about 24 hrs after pitching.

Hope it turns out well. I'm planning to brew this again in another 2 weeks. I think I hit 1.070 for my last effort...I just brewed the Lagunitas Brown Shugga clone, and they are very specific that they use the high flocculation Wyeast English Ale (assumed to be 1968). Both Lagunitas and Tasty got 75% attenuation. I think that yeast (same as WLP002) is very hit or miss in terms of attenuation. My Brown Shugga clone is about done fermenting with a 2L starter, and I'm afraid I've only hit about 69% attenuation, whereas Lagunitas is hitting 75%+. Maybe they just pitch more yeast or, like you mentioned, have a house strain of sorts. I might have to make a starter of WLP001 and pitch it to bring my Brown Shugga down closer to 5 or 6 plato.

Anyway, hope you enjoy the beer. I've never heard of using gelatin post primary but pre dry hop. Keep in mind that with the quantity of dry hops for this beer, you're going to get haze from that as well. Are you going to use gelatin twice?

Does this recipe then throw out the assumption that too many different hop varieites lead to "muddy" hop profile in the finished product?

The dry hop profile for this beer is spot on to the taste and aroma of the real thing. Definitely a good dry hopping selection, and I don't think it's "muddy" at all.

I'm only planning on a single finings treatment. I only recently experimented with gelatin on a Kolsch I just made, and the results were spectacular (still bottle conditioning). However, when reading about finings, I kept finding stories where people lost significant dryhop aroma after gelatin, so I'm hoping to precipitate chill haze and see how dryhops haze in isolation.

I did collect a ton of trub with irish moss from the boil, and this yeast flocculates so much my starter looked like a snow globe... but I'm preemptively preventing the almost-guaranteed chill haze from all this wheat. Unless someone else has better experience... I also kept reading about people using around 1 tbsp of gelatin, while 1/2 tsp apparently suffices. Possibly less! Has anybody used a reasonable amount of gelatin after dryhopping without significant aroma loss?

As for dryhop muddying, I can't see that possibility when you contrast something piney like simcoe with all of the citrus options (orange, grapefruit, etc).

cwheel said:

Both Lagunitas and Tasty got 75% attenuation. I think that yeast (same as WLP002) is very hit or miss in terms of attenuation. My Brown Shugga clone is about done fermenting with a 2L starter, and I'm afraid I've only hit about 69% attenuation, whereas Lagunitas is hitting 75%+.

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Just measured after about 5 days in primary. Refractometer went from 17 to 9 brix, or 1.07 to 1.014 according to NB's calculator. That's 80% apparent attenuation, so perhaps my mash cooled well below 150 F...

Does anyone know where to find, or can help calculate, an extract recipe for this? I'm a newer brewer/rookie so I'm not set up for all grain but absolutely NEED to try this. Haha. I want this in my carboy so bad! Any help is appreciated!

mn_rookie said:

Does anyone know where to find, or can help calculate, an extract recipe for this? I'm a newer brewer/rookie so I'm not set up for all grain but absolutely NEED to try this. Haha. I want this in my carboy so bad! Any help is appreciated!

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Look at the first post in this thread - it's there. If you need any help with adjustments or substitutions, there are several tips throughout the thread or just ask. I plan on brewing this one this coming weekend too, so now I will have to post results.

I love Lil Sumpin Sumpin.

couple of questions

Has anyone done this with Pacman? I have a healthy amount of pac in the keezer ready to go. I could do 1275 Thames, S04, or Dennys 50 if those would be better.

Also I'm going to sub out a few of the hops but the grain bill and mash temps are staying the same.

How does this look for a Lil Sumpin Else?

11.00 g Nugget [13.80 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 14.8 IBUs
4.00 g Mosaic [12.30 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 8 4.8 IBUs
8.00 g Fuggles [5.10 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 9 3.1 IBUs
14.20 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 10 11.7 IBUs
14.20 g Simcoe [14.10 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 12.7 IBUs
10.00 g Fuggles [5.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 2.1 IBUs
10.00 g Amarillo Gold [9.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 14 2.8 IBUs
28.30 g Mosaic [12.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 5.7 IBUs


42.50 g Chinook [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
42.50 g Mosaic [12.30 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 18 0.0 IBUs
42.50 g Simcoe [14.10 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs
28.30 g Amarillo Gold [9.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs

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Brew-Jay said:

Look at the first post in this thread - it's there. If you need any help with adjustments or substitutions, there are several tips throughout the thread or just ask. I plan on brewing this one this coming weekend too, so now I will have to post results.

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Sorry. I misread your question. To convert this recipe to extract you would want to use 50/50 light dry malt extract and wheat malt extract. To get the 1.072 OG in a 5 gallon batch then you need to use a total of just over 8 lbs (4 lbs light, 4lbs wheat). You might also want to steep about 3 or 4 oz crystal 40 for color. I think that sounds about right.

You might find a few clues in the video Lagunitas made for Little Sumpin Sumpin

This is a recipe I'm going to be trying soon! I just had my first LSS over the weekend and it was damn tasty. Tasty enough that I told my wife I would have to find a way to brew it and this recipe looks like the winner!

Does anyone have the BYO version of this recipe? I am brewing the CYBI version this weekend but would like to compare. Thanks!

Brew-Jay said:

Look at the first post in this thread - it's there. If you need any help with adjustments or substitutions, there are several tips throughout the thread or just ask. I plan on brewing this one this coming weekend too, so now I will have to post results.

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Brew-Jay how did your batch turn out?

LoloMT7 said:

Brew-Jay how did your batch turn out?

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It was pretty darn delicious. The color was too dark (roasted the wheat too long I think) and the flavor was not spot on, but the aroma was very Lagunitas-like.

Brew-Jay said:

It was pretty darn delicious. The color was too dark (roasted the wheat too long I think) and the flavor was not spot on, but the aroma was very Lagunitas-like.

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Here's the side-by-side. Like I said, a little dark.