Speidel Braumeister (brewmaster)

I new here, but have enjoyed reading this discussion on the mighty Braumeister. I have a 50L and so far only two brews ...but I love the simplicity and ease of use (worst part is lifting the malt pipe - I'll eventually rig an electric winch for this).
What I am wondering is if anyone here has set up a Beersmith equipment profile for their Braumeister? I'd be grateful if someone would post theirs.

Thanks!

Great forum. good to be onboard ;-)

Welcome roomfullofmirrors!

I use BeerTools Pro and until you posted, hadn't even thought of trying to add the Braumeister into the equipment profile. I will have to check into that.

Hopefully someone else who has Beersmith can chime in. Just wanted to say welcome!

Thanks Yambor44. I'm from the BIAB school of brewing originally, and have been playing around with a few different profiles based on the BIAB experience ...I was just interested to see if anyone has actually got a profile nailed down for the Braumeister.
Thanks again for the welcome ;-)

Hello folks,

I programmed my BeerSmith with the following parameters for BM50:
-------

Equipment Profile: BM50
Batch Size: 35.00 l

Mash Tun Volume: 55.00 l
Mash Tun Weight: 24.00 kg
Mash Tun Specific Heat: 0.12
Lauter Tun Deadspace: 0.00 l

Boil Size: 38.50 l
Boil Time: 90 min
Evaporation Rate: 10.0 %
Calculate Boil Size: FALSE
Kettle Top Up Water: 0.00 l
Hop Utilization Adjustment: 100.00 %

Trub/Chiller Loss: 0.00 l
Cooling Loss: 1.00
Top Up Water into Fermenter: 0.00 l
------------------------

Please look that my batch size was set for 35 L, but I think that the parameters will not change so much for 50 L.

diegobonatto said:

Hello folks,

I programmed my BeerSmith with the following parameters for BM50:
-------

Equipment Profile: BM50
Batch Size: 35.00 l

Mash Tun Volume: 55.00 l
Mash Tun Weight: 24.00 kg
Mash Tun Specific Heat: 0.12
Lauter Tun Deadspace: 0.00 l

Boil Size: 38.50 l
Boil Time: 90 min
Evaporation Rate: 10.0 %
Calculate Boil Size: FALSE
Kettle Top Up Water: 0.00 l
Hop Utilization Adjustment: 100.00 %

Trub/Chiller Loss: 0.00 l
Cooling Loss: 1.00
Top Up Water into Fermenter: 0.00 l
------------------------

Please look that my batch size was set for 35 L, but I think that the parameters will not change so much for 50 L.

Click to expand...

What is your actual output volume? Do you sparge (after removing malt pipe) or just drain?

Thanks for your post

roomfullofmirrors said:

What is your actual output volume? Do you sparge (after removing malt pipe) or just drain?

Thanks for your post

Click to expand...

Is 30 L and I just drain the malt pipe.....I'm performing a non sparging mashing. It's work very well!

diegobonatto said:

Is 30 L and I just drain the malt pipe.....I'm performing a non sparging mashing. It's work very well!

Click to expand...

My first batch output volume was 40L and a higher OG than my expected target. The second batch was 50L and right on target OG after a "sparge" at mash out.

Basically, after lifting the malt pipe out I ran about 1 litre per Kg of 80°C water through the malt pipe while the temperature is rising to boil.

Only my first two beers, but either method seems to give favourable results.

Here's my Beersmith equipment profile for my 50L, so far...

Equipment Profile: BM50L
Batch Size: 50.00 l

Mash Tun Volume: 60.00 l
Mash Tun Weight: 24.00 kg
Mash Tun Specific Heat: 0.20
Lauter Tun Deadspace: 0.50 l

Boil Size: 54.00 l
Boil Time: 90 min
Evaporation Rate: 6.5 %
Calculate Boil Size: FALSE
Kettle Top Up Water: 0.00 l
Hop Utilization Adjustment: 100.00 %

Trub/Chiller Loss: 3.00 l
Cooling Loss: 4.00
Top Up Water into Fermenter: 0.00 l

___________________________________

How does that compare with you other brewers using the 50L ?

Hi everyone,

I was finally able to brew on my new Braumeister so I thought I'd write a report for you here and show off the little modifications supplied by my store here in Australia. I've also posted a report here on the Aussie Site

This 50L Braumeister is a graduation gift from my wife. When it arrived I was impressed by its compact size and quality build.

Firstly I should mention that I took my time during my first brew. It was quite a long brew day. I actually don't think the BM will save me much time, but it is much easier and I can leave it to mash / boil unattended while I do other things (like bottle a previous batch), and clean up is quite simple. But time saving wasn't why I purchased this system. My main reasons were consistency batch to batch, full electric brewing, and size.

Also, I'd like to disagree with those that think the BM is an automated system and therefore the brewer is hands off / less involved. I still mixed the mash at dough in, did a small manual sparge and added hops to the boil. Compared to a my old 3v system, the only things I didn't do was to calculate strike temp, manually recirculate and clean 3 vessels and extra hoses and taps (also I didn't have to constantly tweak gas output for the boil or worry about boil overs). I still had all the joy of being the brewer, I just used a machine to recirculate and hit temps. Essentially it allows me to do the fun parts of brewing without some of the annoying parts. I think its basically the same as any herms or rims system, just it all happens in the one vessel (ie, mash in then set temps and allow to recirculate and ramp up).

Anyways... on to the brew!

In with the malt!



Here is a photo showing the size of the unit (I'm about 5 foot 10). Its compact, but not small. Also, you can see the nice draw string upgrade MHB adds to the filters. These make life SO much easier than the standard filters and the workmanship is equal to the quality of the BM.



An idiot with his new toy. Again you can see how much easier the draw string makes handling the filters and keeping them correctly located. This image is just after stirring in the mash.



Here is the wort shortly after recirculating begins. This is a Dr Smurto's Golden Ale.



The computer showing that we're warming up from mash in at 50 degrees to the first rest at 66. The BM seems to ramp at about 1 degree per minute. This was with no insulation, on a breezy day of about 15 degrees. I'm happy with that, but I'll experiment with insulation too



About half way through the mash, crystal clear wort... nice!



Lifting the malt pipe was a *****. Even with two blokes it was awkward. The suction was the killer. I plan to make a little bench for my BM with an overhead manual winch. This means I'll be able to brew solo if needed too.



After the mash had drained for 5 mins or so I sparged (a rinse really) the grains with 1L per kg of malt at 80 degrees. This didn't make the wort cloudy like I feared it might (rinsing in the opposite direction to the recirculation flow).



The boil went well. Its not a raging boil, quite gentle really. But it is constant and did give me at least 10% boil off. I whirlpooled then cooled using a plate chiller via gravity into a 60L fermenter. I only extracted 43L rather than the 50L I planned, but my efficiency was still over 85% (mash efficiency). I'm very pleased with that! Also the whirlpool worked very well despite all the elements at the bottom of the BM. I ended up with 43L of clear 1.057 wort.

Cleaning was a breeze apart from the elements inside the BM. These had a light coating of break material the needed to be wiped off, a fiddly job as there are so many element coils. I think in the future I might recirculate some warm PBW after a quick hose out while I clean up the rest of the brew gear and aerate / pitch yeast etc. I think this would clean the elements and pumps well. Tipping the unit upside down and quickly dismantling the pumps for a rinse was a breeze.

All in all a very successful brew day. I can see the BM will add a great level of control to my brewing and I'll be able to learn a lot by having predictable gear and repeatable processes. This should allow me to tweak recipes and actually track the differences.

Anyways, this has been long enough, thanks for reading. Any comments or questions welcome!

Cheers,

Dave.

Sensational Dave!!!

:rockin:

Recirculating some PBW or caustic works very well. You should probably make sure to flush the pump as well, a plastic garden house fitting fits pretty well in the opening.

I know some people use a toilet brush to clean the elements. They are cheap enough to give it a try, even if you find it does not work. (You might want to buy a new one just for brewing use )

Nice write up Dave! Thanks for taking the time.

At the National Homebrewers Conference last week, I ran into the Speidel rep and he said that all new 20L and 50L Braumeisters are coming with stainless mesh instead of the cloth filters.

Hi, I just joined because here seems to be the best BM conversation, and I have the 20L version and 2 brews behind me, both in FV at the moment. I also found Yambor44's video series very useful (and entertaining)

Hopefully I can contribute in due course.

1st brew: ESB-style ale, 5kg grain bill. Started with 23L and ended up 16.5L in FV. I did not strictly sparge but circulated couple of scoopfuls of wort onto grain bed, also as wort was dripping I was poking with a spoon to make wort run down better.

2nd brew: IPA-style ale, 5kg grain bill again. Started with 24L and ended up with 21-22L after mash and 18L after boil (vapour, hop bags, on the bottom under tap level). Did not touch the grain bed nor did I sparge, nada. Grain was afterwards very dry, only about 0.3L wort in it Wort clear as sky after mashing, cloudy when boiling (60 mins for both brews).

Seems to me I am a bit low with efficiency compared to others. Also when I emptied into the FV, I had to start tilting the BM quite early on, even when the level was still above the tap line, in order for beer to come out.

Other than these minor points which I'm sure I'll crack with experience, solid experience for a novice home brewer who is slightly lost with the whole process. Mr Leukert from BM has been very helpful and the overall technical quality seems impeccable.

Does anyone replace vapourised contents when boiling, as the manual says?

Thanks, and I'll be following the advice here on this thread with great interest.

DeGarre said:

Seems to me I am a bit low with efficiency compared to others. Also when I emptied into the FV, I had to start tilting the BM quite early on, even when the level was still above the tap line, in order for beer to come out.interest.

Click to expand...

Efficiency will improve if you sparge (dump some water on top of the malt tube when in the top position). About a gallon should be a good start.

Thanks gustavf, will try that on my next (3rd) brew.

Since my 1st BM brew was also my 1st ever, I followed the manual quite strictly, I saved 1.5L of wort before pitching the yeast and 2 hours before bottling carefully poured it into the FV.

Now I am worried the beer will not carbonate and will be flat. Will the 1.5L of wort spread into the whole contents and thus into the bottles? Should I have carefully mixed it into the FV? I just poured it in into the middle and left it.

Would it be better to just make a sugar priming solution by myself?

DeGarre said:

Thanks gustavf, will try that on my next (3rd) brew.

Since my 1st BM brew was also my 1st ever, I followed the manual quite strictly, I saved 1.5L of wort before pitching the yeast and 2 hours before bottling carefully poured it into the FV.

Now I am worried the beer will not carbonate and will be flat. Will the 1.5L of wort spread into the whole contents and thus into the bottles? Should I have carefully mixed it into the FV? I just poured it in into the middle and left it.

Would it be better to just make a sugar priming solution by myself?

Click to expand...

Check out this thread for some useful bottling tips. What I do is to make up a priming solution using this calculator as my reference. I put around 2 cups of water in a pot on the stove and drop the required amount of sugar in to the solution. I boil this for 5 minutes or so and then dump it in to the bottom of my bottling bucket. I then siphon my beer from the fermenter to the bottling bucket creating a gentle whirlpool, this allows the priming solution to mix completely. Then I bottle my beer and begin the waiting game. Hope this helps!

I'm a long time lurker and new member who is VERY interested in this system. My dilemma is 50L with additional 20L malt pipe -or- just the 20L version. I brew 5 gallon batches 95% of the time on my current 10 gallon setup. I like having the capability of doing a large batch size but not sure it's worth $1000 more to me. What's the +/- to the shorter malt pipe in the 50L vs the 20L unit - beyond batch size?

And thank you for such a helpful thread on this issue! I'll be sure and contribute when I get my unit.

I can't speak to the 50l but I'm loving my 20l. The only issue I've run into is haze. Not sure where's it's coming from but I'm working through the variables one-by-one. Short of that the results and ease of use are awesome.

One thing I would ask of someone with a 50l is how tough it is to lift the malt pipe out for a 10 gallon batch. It's nothing to sneeze at on the 20l. The suction and weight make for a decent lift. I see where several folks with 50l units use pulleys and winches. Pretty sure my SWMBO won't go for that in the kitchen.

-Chris

Chris, check my vid out. It's real easy until it gets to the top and the suction begins. Then I had to use one hand/arm to grab the rail of my garage door overhead and the other on the malt pipe. It's a tight pull but you can get it probably just ad easy as the 20.

As long as the wattage on your 20l element is sufficient, I would think Jason would be best suited for the 20.

Rob

Rob / Chris - thanks for the input. It definitely sounds like the 20L is the right fit for me given your input.

Do you use whirl floc or Irish moss in your process? I had some haze issues early on in my brewing process and the addition of those cleared things up for me. I have used both in the course of my brewing - whirl floc seems to give slightly better results in my process from what I can tell.

I've read some that cloudy wort was a problem when people Sparge on this system, but I've dealt with really cloudy wort in my batch sparging that resulted in clear beer with the finings mentioned and a little cold conditioning prior to bottling or in the keg.

Chris and I discussed this in a PM I think. We were wondering if the cloudy wort could be the result of the time it takes to chill the wort with the SS chiller from Spiedel. Both the 20l and 50l chiller takes the tamp down to around 80-85 in about 20 minutes but then it "sticks" for another 25-30 to get it to pitching temps.

I have used ice water the entire time and it doesn't chill it any quicker than tap/ice water combination. When I was using my copper IC with my 15 gallon keggles (10 gallon batch) I could chill to pitch in 20 minutes while recirculating.

With the BM I have done it without the pumps on, with the pumps on and with and without while stirring - all the exact same time to chill.

I have my old copper chiller I will try this weekend and post the results.

If I were to do it all over, I would definitely not buy one of the chillers, rather use my own or purchase a new less expensive copper IC.

Also, I have not used a clearing agent with the BM. I will use some Irish Moss as well this weekend if I don't forget.

Yambor44 said:

Also, I have not used a clearing agent with the BM. I will use some Irish Moss as well this weekend if I don't forget.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing that will be a big help and I'm also thinking your chillers will be a factor. My beer got much clearer when I got my large copper immersion chiller vs my smaller one that took forever to get things down to pitching temps. I also noticed better hop flavor as well - have you had any issues with late hop additions not giving the results you've seen pre-Braumeister?

makomachine said:

I'm guessing that will be a big help and I'm also thinking your chillers will be a factor. My beer got much clearer when I got my large copper immersion chiller vs my smaller one that took forever to get things down to pitching temps. I also noticed better hop flavor as well - have you had any issues with late hop additions not giving the results you've seen pre-Braumeister?

Click to expand...

I can't really say. Just now into my 2nd keg of the first beer I brewed on it. It's 2 months old as of June 17th and it was a lot clearer right out of the gate than the first (younger) 5 gallon keg. By the time that first keg kicked, it was pretty clear.

My goal with my pipeline is to get everything to at least 90 days old before it hits the tap. That seems to be the magic number for the perfectly aged beer for my tastes. Some folks go from grain to glass in 2-4 weeks. I find the beer is waaay to green at that point for my tastes.

Completely agree on the pipeline comment. My best beers are 90 days in the keg cold conditioned. Unfortunately, they rarely make it that long! I'm hoping with the Braumeister I'll have more brewing sessions to allow for some pipeline myself. Up until now, my brew sessions have been few and far between given time constraints.

Hello Makomachine, I have the 20L BM and chose it because even though my old system could handle 10 gal batches easily I always just brew 5 gal batches. The benefit I see with the 50L is if you did 5 gal batches with the small malt pipe you would probably have a better boil due to the higher wattage of the 50L, but someone like Yambor44 could answer that better that me. I use super irish moss and use my large copper immersion cooler to chill with. My wort cools in 5 to 15 minutes depending on time of the year ground water temp) I've found. I too am having a haze issue, it's almost more like a cloudiness. I'm not sure if it's too much protein or tannins getting into the wort due to a rather mild boil. My current batches are 2 or more months old and are still rather cloudy, but do taste good. I plan to take samples at every stage on my next brew to see where the wort begins to cloud. Otherwise I completely enjoy brewing with this equipment.

hfk2 said:

Hello Makomachine, I have the 20L BM and chose it because even though my old system could handle 10 gal batches easily I always just brew 5 gal batches. The benefit I see with the 50L is if you did 5 gal batches with the small malt pipe you would probably have a better boil due to the higher wattage of the 50L, but someone like Yambor44 could answer that better that me. I use super irish moss and use my large copper immersion cooler to chill with. My wort cools in 5 to 15 minutes depending on time of the year ground water temp) I've found. I too am having a haze issue, it's almost more like a cloudiness. I'm not sure if it's too much protein or tannins getting into the wort due to a rather mild boil. My current batches are 2 or more months old and are still rather cloudy, but do taste good. I plan to take samples at every stage on my next brew to see where the wort begins to cloud. Otherwise I completely enjoy brewing with this equipment.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you are covering all the bases and can't see why the Braumeister process would cause haze/cloudiness on it's own. My early brewing days on the stovetop resulted in some cloudiness that I always attributed to extract in general - makes me wonder if it was boil temp given the low boil temps as well. A bit discouraging that it seems to be a problem that many are seeing however. I'm still considering pulling the trigger on the 20L today though- cloudiness alone isn't something that would keep me from buying the unit necessarily.

hfk2 / Chris - Are you using the optional insulating jacket? Just wondering if the addition of that is helping with the 20L boil temp.

Also, what type of mash schedule are you running (protein rest / sach rest / sparge / etc)?

As hfk2 mentioned you do get a better rolling boil with the smaller malt pipe in the 50 L unit.

I use the insulating jacket. I got it because I brew in my basement now and in the winter it is about 60F. I haven't not used it so I can't tell you how much difference it makes. It is well made and a good, but a little pricey. I've tried different mash schedules, from multi-step (beta and alpha amalyse rests) including protein rests and mashout. My clearest beer was my first which included a protein rest at 122F for 30 minutes, a saccrification rest at 148F for 75 minutes and mashout at 168F for 10 minutes. I also used the schedule that came programmed in the BM, and other variations that increased/decreased rest times at different temperatures. This is the real benefit of the BM. By the way in my last two batches I used a homemade heat stick (1500w) to get a vigorous boil going. I wont know if it made a difference for a few weeks.

hfk2 said:

I use the insulating jacket. I got it because I brew in my basement now and in the winter it is about 60F. I haven't not used it so I can't tell you how much difference it makes. It is well made and a good, but a little pricey. I've tried different mash schedules, from multi-step (beta and alpha amalyse rests) including protein rests and mashout. My clearest beer was my first which included a protein rest at 122F for 30 minutes, a saccrification rest at 148F for 75 minutes and mashout at 168F for 10 minutes. I also used the schedule that came programmed in the BM, and other variations that increased/decreased rest times at different temperatures. This is the real benefit of the BM. By the way in my last two batches I used a homemade heat stick (1500w) to get a vigorous boil going. I wont know if it made a difference for a few weeks.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input as I was wondering if a longer protein rest made a difference. I've noticed in my last cooler / batch sparge batch, a pre-prohibition lager for my grandfather, that it came out extremely clear compared to past batches - and it was my first all grain batch where I inserted a 20 minute protein rest at 122f.

Pulled the trigger on the 20L version and insulating jacket from morebeer.com. I won't receive it until late July as I've got a vacation overlapping when it's coming. Will update everyone with my impressions and initial brew experience.

About the haze/cloudiness: for me the wort after mash was perfectly clear, but somehow got cloudy during the boil, I have now bottled one batch, 4 days ago, and it looks very cloudy.

About cooling after boil for the yeast pitch: I bought the 20L starter set so I have the BM provided IC. I run cold water through it from my well, very slow trickle really. First 10 degrees c down to 90c it cools in 1 minute max, the temp goes down very steadily to 20 degrees, no stops, in 20-25 mins. I run the water very slow and it uses about 4 buckets of water in total, which I then use for watering the plants. Very happy about that.

Replaced the impellers that Speidel sent to me and the pumps are whisper quiet once again. However....I have a new challenge (video DLing now). My wort keeps shooting out the lid!

I paused the unit, re-stirred the mash and it went another 3-4 minutes and did it again. I paused, let the mash settle and it went another 3-4 minutes and happened again, this time on camera.

Anyone else experience this? The only thing different that I can think of are the impellers. Maybe too much pressure now?

Yambor44 said:

Replaced the impellers that Speidel sent to me and the pumps are whisper quiet once again. However....I have a new challenge (video DLing now). My wort keeps shooting out the lid!

I paused the unit, re-stirred the mash and it went another 3-4 minutes and did it again. I paused, let the mash settle and it went another 3-4 minutes and happened again, this time on camera.

Anyone else experience this? The only thing different that I can think of are the impellers. Maybe too much pressure now?

Click to expand...

How many pounds of grain and what is the grain bill? I read somewhere that if you have too fine a crush with a lot of grain you can cause it to "fountain".

Found the post from the more beer forum, quoted below.

gustavf said:

usmcruz said:

Im kinda curious, how are you getting 1.065 wort when the system limitations are 1.057? you adding dme?

Click to expand...

I was surprised to see MoreBeer quote a 1.057 system limit, as there is certainly no problem brewing stronger beer on the system (without DME or a very long boil time). You might have problems with stronger brews than 1.057 if you follow the user guide, which by the way is a horrible translation from German, and do not sparge.

Another thing I find hard to believe that your getting 75 to 80% sparging, because in order to reach the 75 to 80% range your sparge would exceed the starting volume capacities of the system. Am I missing something?

Click to expand...

You mash with 22-23 liters of water, which is what you need to cover the heating elements when the wort is pumped through the malt pipe. When you lift the malt pipe, there is room for 27 liters underneath the pipe and you can sparge with almost 10 liters of water. The kettle is just under 40 liters, I believe.

If you use the 50 liter version, these numbers are different and if you use the 50 liter version with the short malt pipe you can sparge with "unlimited" amounts of water.

The milling is also important when using this system. I have had the best efficiency when I almost have a stuck mash and the sparging is slightly slower, but too fine milling and the pump will start to build pressure under the malt and the wort will make a channel resulting in a volcano effect. If that happens, you'd better keep the lid on and reach for the pause button.

Click to expand...

Hi Guys,

After mashing I lift out the malt pipe and pour about 2 liters of hot water through to get residual sugars.I use whirl floc tablets with 20 minutes left in the boil. I use the pump while chilling with the immersion chiller. cools in about 15 minutes. I dump everything in the fermenter and after about a week switch to a secondary, leaving behind all the crud. After 3 brews, all were crystal clear in the glass and very good.
Hope this helps,

Wayne

waynemil said:

Hi Guys,

After mashing I lift out the malt pipe and pour about 2 liters of hot water through to get residual sugars.I use whirl floc tablets with 20 minutes left in the boil. I use the pump while chilling with the immersion chiller. cools in about 15 minutes. I dump everything in the fermenter and after about a week switch to a secondary, leaving behind all the crud. After 3 brews, all were crystal clear in the glass and very good.
Hope this helps,

Wayne

Click to expand...

Wayne - thanks for the feedback! Which version do you own, the 20L or 40L? What mash schedule are you running?

makomachine said:

How many pounds of grain and what is the grain bill? I read somewhere that if you have too fine a crush with a lot of grain you can cause it to "fountain".

Found the post from the more beer forum, quoted below.

Click to expand...

My grain bill:

17 lbs 2 Row
1 lb 60L
1 lb Cara-Pils

I wonder about the crush sometimes. However, I have done 4 other sessions with zero problems. Would almost have to be a "stuck mash" based on the info you mentioned (pumps building too much pressure) which you will hear me speak of too much pressure in my video. Still loading to YouTube. When it is done I will post here.

Thanks everyone.

waynemil said:

Hi Guys,

After mashing I lift out the malt pipe and pour about 2 liters of hot water through to get residual sugars.I use whirl floc tablets with 20 minutes left in the boil. I use the pump while chilling with the immersion chiller. cools in about 15 minutes. I dump everything in the fermenter and after about a week switch to a secondary, leaving behind all the crud. After 3 brews, all were crystal clear in the glass and very good.
Hope this helps,

Wayne

Click to expand...

I actually did this today with 1 gallon of 188 degree water. I had to abort my mash session so I figured the mash had been "mashing" sitting still for over an hour total so I would just rinse and get the boil started.

As DeGarre mentioned, do you run your water at a very slow rate thru your chiller? I use a sump pump from Harbor Freight and it has one speed...wide open. I found a way to throttle it so I was thinking of trying the Speidel chiller once more and slow the ice water.