Troeg's Mad Elf

yes a blow off tube is a must for this recipe i believe! lol

seckert said:

yes a blow off tube is a must for this recipe i believe! lol

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I do not ferment without a blowoff tube. The rapid fermentation you got is great and will more than likely result in a very clean and focused beer with all of the right esters. The only downside of using the blowoff tube is that is leaves only a little yeast behind to harvest. I am still trying to figure out a way to harvest yeast from a blowoff tube but ensuring it is sanitary has been proven problematic.

NervousDad said:

Has anyone brewed this with a clean yeast strain? I know this beer is built on that spice and I really enjoy it, but sometime the spicy yeast gets to me.

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You wont get even close to the same beer but you could brew this with WLP001 Cali ale yeast. Troegs uses a slight modification of this strain as their house yeast.

I found an interesting article on belgian strong ales and yeast. Thought it would be relevant to the yeast starter discussion:

http://byo.com/stories/item/1664-yeast-strains-for-belgian-strong-ales

Just picked up my first Mad Elf six pack of the year! It's out so early! We'll have to do a swap: one mad elf for one mad elf clone.

Anyone have any advice on how long to leave this on the cherries? Last year I did a week and didnt get the color or flavor I wanted.

One source Ive read advises you to leave it on the cherries until they drop. That could take months. Most recipes recommend a week or two. I was thinking secondary on the cherries two weeks with a tertiary to drop off any leftover cherry matter.

Not sure how long you need for the flavor, but the color is coming from the chocolate malt, per my understanding. I think two weeks should be sufficient

I am going to put my cherries on the secondary and leave for at least 3 weeks. then move it over to the keg. I will let you guys know if this time table works. how exactly would the choc malt give a ruby red color though? you have to get some of the red from the cherries to get the correct color...at least that's my thinking...

Its been six days and it is still bubbling away. I am doing 2 weeks primary and 2 in the secondary with cherries, then 2 more for bottle conditioning.
So what do you brew after you brew this?

Madsciontst said:

Its been six days and it is still bubbling away. I am doing 2 weeks primary and 2 in the secondary with cherries, then 2 more for bottle conditioning.
So what do you brew after you brew this?

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Mine is still bubbling too...haha! I am going to leave mine in the primary for 3 weeks so the yeast can clean up after themselves since it is still bubbling so much. then 3 weeks in secondary, but that is because it will go into the keg and start being served 2 days after.

I have thought about I was going to brew after this. I am thinking something that is a lot lower ABV...

I'm working up a recipe for a black lager soon. After three 7.5%+ brews (Peat smoked Scotch @ 22%, Belgian style Dubbel @ 8%, and a porter at 7.8%) I figure I could use something in the 5% range.

seckert said:

how exactly would the choc malt give a ruby red color though? you have to get some of the red from the cherries to get the correct color...at least that's my thinking...

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You may be right. I am sure that the cherries impart a color to the beer but i figured the chocolate would give it a reddish hue as well.

You guys brewed the thing, what was the color of the mash?

I don't know the science behind it, but I've read and through personal experience that a small amount of dark malts will give a red color to the beer. If you use too much it will be dark and go brown.

Chocolate malt will definitely give you a red color. This was an ESB that I did with chocolate malt and it came out very red.

Nice pic NervousDad! Like I said earlier in this thread, Troegs' signature in its best beers is chocolate malt for color and flavor. I'm sure the cherries add some red but this ESB is actually pretty close to the color of Mad Elf; maybe a little lighter.

Ok then..maybe it will be red from the Choc then...haha
It didnt look like it would be when brewing it, but then again the beer will change as it ferments so i guess i will see here in a month or so...

seckert said:

Ok then..maybe it will be red from the Choc then...haha
It didnt look like it would be when brewing it, but then again the beer will change as it ferments so i guess i will see here in a month or so...

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It'll prob look darker in bulk, but will be lighter in a glass or bottle. How did it look in the tube for a gravity sample?

If it was dark in the small sample, we might want to scale back the chocolate malt a bit. Another reason could be an extended boil/scorching some of the wort. Just some thoughts to consider.

honestly I don't remember what it looked like when I took OG sample...mostly because at that time I thought the red was coming from cherries...I do know I should have used 3 oz of Choc Malt and I believe the LHBS gave me 4 oz at least that is what they wrote down on side of bag. I hope it doesn't come out brown as that would be super depressing.
it is a long boil at 90 min, but I am pretty anal about stirring the wort pretty often so I don't scorch.
I wish I remembered what my sample looked like...

What level of carbonation are you guys shooting for? I'm planning on bottling (and sampling!) in a few days.

oelfool said:

What level of carbonation are you guys shooting for? I'm planning on bottling (and sampling!) in a few days.

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It has been so long since i had the real stuff i dont even remember where it was at carbonation wise...i will probably force keg it at 30 for one day then drop to serving at 10. if it needs more then i will just up the gas for another day and try it again.

Im thinking for bottling maybe try 3.5-4 oz of priming sugar for the batch, I remember this beer not being too highly carbed. inputs?

I'm cracking one open tonight and I'll let you guys know but thinking back to last week when I drank one, it is a medium belgian carb level. I would pin it at around 2.8-3.2 Vol CO2. I don't know how that translates to kegging as I still bottle condition everything but I would probably use around 5.5oz (~3/4Cup) of Corn Sugar for a perfect 5gal bottling volume. Again, I will report back tonight on my up-to-date opinion.

OK. So I'm drinking one right now. and I think it is probably around 2.8 Vol's. In Northern Brewer's priming sugar calc thats 5.15oz of corn sugar. It would be 13.3psi at 36F in a keg. Don't hold me to it but I do a lot of belgian and French beers and this is similar to some of my Dubbels and flatter than my Saisons (usually at 3.2VolCO2). Good luck!

ok nice...I guess I will prob force carb at 30 for 1.5-2 days then drop to 12psi...and try it out...I was thinking it was less carbed than that. like I said though it has been so long since I had one though...haha

Ok its been two weeks in the primary and I'm suppose to rack it on top of the cherries today. But it is still blowing bubbles out of the airlock. Is this a problem ? Should I wait or proceed to the secondary?

Thanks for the input on carbonation. I had a taste of my batch yesterday and all the rocket fuel taste is gone and it is dangerously smooth. Ready for the snow now.

Madsciontst said:

Ok its been two weeks in the primary and I'm suppose to rack it on top of the cherries today. But it is still blowing bubbles out of the airlock. Is this a problem ? Should I wait or proceed to the secondary?

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Only way to know is to take a gravity reading. A bubbling airlock only means CO2 is escaping not that it is still fermenting.

seckert said:

ok nice...I guess I will prob force carb at 30 for 1.5-2 days then drop to 12psi...and try it out...I was thinking it was less carbed than that. like I said though it has been so long since I had one though...haha

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Yeah if you can go less than increase as required that might be a better idea than the other way around.

WissaBrewGuy said:

Only way to know is to take a gravity reading. A bubbling airlock only means CO2 is escaping not that it is still fermenting.

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+1 don't rack until it's done fermenting. Only way to tell is by taking gravity readings.

oelfool said:

Thanks for the input on carbonation. I had a taste of my batch yesterday and all the rocket fuel taste is gone and it is dangerously smooth. Ready for the snow now.

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How long did it take for the rocket fuel taste to go away? I am running short on time and I hope that it will have mellowed by the time this beer is put out to drink...

seckert said:

How long did it take for the rocket fuel taste to go away? I am running short on time and I hope that it will have mellowed by the time this beer is put out to drink...

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It was a week short of two months when I tasted it, but it could have been sooner. I kind of forgot about it in the basement..

2 months in the bottle? or 2 months since you brewed it? I will be putting into secondary next weekend and hoping to keg it Dec 1st and serve it on the 12th. do you think it will be mellowed out by then? I am leaving in primary for 3 weeks first. so will be about just shy of 8 weeks from brew day to serve day.

seckert said:

2 months in the bottle? or 2 months since you brewed it? I will be putting into secondary next weekend and hoping to keg it Dec 1st and serve it on the 12th. do you think it will be mellowed out by then? I am leaving in primary for 3 weeks first. so will be about just shy of 8 weeks from brew day to serve day.

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Sorry, almost two months since I brewed. I just bottled it a few days ago. I think you'll be able to make it, especially if you're kegging. Another reason I took so long was I moved it to a third fermentor to clear more of the fruit particles out before bottling. I used a shorter primary, just a week and let the fruit sit for about ten days in secondary. I usually just put the fruit in the primary, but I had a ton of trub.

oelfool said:

Sorry, almost two months since I brewed. I just bottled it a few days ago. I think you'll be able to make it, especially if you're kegging. Another reason I took so long was I moved it to a third fermentor to clear more of the fruit particles out before bottling. I used a shorter primary, just a week and let the fruit sit for about ten days in secondary. I usually just put the fruit in the primary, but I had a ton of trub.

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Ok great thanks for the insight! :rockin:

moved it over to the secondary today and put it over cherries...I think I might have had just a bit too much choc malt or something. it definitely wasn't red as I was seeing it run through the line. however when it was mixing around in the secondary with the cherries it seemed it was picking up a nice red tint. So hopefully it still comes out with at least a slight red tint! def have to dial the choc malt down a bit next time.

Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. It's an interview with a brewer from Troeg's specifically about Mad Elf. It was on the radio, so it might be a 30,000 foot overview, but I hope it's worthwhile.

http://www.radio1045.com/pages/craftology.html?feed=478189&article=11823301

It's been about four and a half weeks so I'll be bottling this week. So far it smell great, can't wait to drink it!!!!

make sure you let us know when you taste it how it came out. a picture would be great too if possible...

wobrien said:

Haven't had a chance to listen to it yet. It's an interview with a brewer from Troeg's specifically about Mad Elf. It was on the radio, so it might be a 30,000 foot overview, but I hope it's worthwhile.

http://www.radio1045.com/pages/craftology.html?feed=478189&article=11823301

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I finally had a chance to watch this. didn't really learn anything new about MEA. however it was a decent interview and was worth watching...thanks for the video!

As soon as it's done I'll post a pic.

I racked my version on to cherries yesterday and now it's chugging along, was a bit over11% so this is going to be strong an may not be ready by Christmas, Oh well.
Definitely looked brown in the tube but I think the cherries will help in the red color. Cheers

Used this recipe.. Kegged it and after a month in keg did a side by side with the real thing blonde taste test could not tell the difference... One of my proudest moments

NAME AMOUNT USE
Pilsner 15.0 lb 72 % Mash
Munich Malt 2.0 lb 9 % Mash
Maltodextrine 8.0 oz 2 % Mash
Chocolate Malt 2.0 oz 0 % Mash
2-Row Brewers Malt 3.0 lb 14 %

At 152 60 mins

NAME AMOUNT TIME USE
Saaz 1.0 oz 60 min Boil
Hallertau 1.0 oz 30 min Boil
Hallertau 1.0 oz 10 min Boil
Yeasts

NAME LAB TEMP
Trappist Ale Yeast WLP500 White Labs 65°F – 72°F
Extras

NAME AMOUNT TIME USE
Cherries 3.0 lb 7.0 days Secondary
Cherries, sour 2.0 lb 7.0 days Secondary