Why Late Extract Addition?

So far, all my brewing has been with extract and specialty grains for steeping. I have read a few posts where the idea was presented that the addition of the extract doesn’t necessarily have to be at the beginning of the boil but perhaps later, or half at the front end and half at the back end. Can you guys give some input on that?

What does boiling do to the extract? If there is no physical change to the extract during the boil then I can see where adding it late might be good from the standpoint of not overcooking it or cooking off its flavors.

Dennis

Adding the extract later reduces caramelization of the exctact. The goal is to have a lighter colored beer and to reduce the "extract twang". Also, having less extract during your boil will increase the hops utilization (increased isomerization of the hops leading to more bitterness). That last point may be desired, or if not desired, then corrections made to the bittering hops amount or boiling length.

two reasons:

Hops usage is more efficient with less concentrated wort. This means you can use less hops and get the same bittering.

Less caramelization of the wort so it will stay a lighter color.

The only thing that needs to happen to the extract is it needs to be sanitized, boiling for 5 minutes would do that. The longer extract is boiled the darker it gets, so the late extract method is frequently recommended to get a closer-to-style color especially for lighter beers.

Apparently if the chemicals in hops are extracted in just boiling water rather than boiling wort, the taste becomes very harsh and vegetal, which is why you don't just boil hops and water for 55 minutes and add the extract in the last five. It needs some malt in there to make it taste right. Most people just split the extract in half and add half at the beginning and half in the last 15.

Ok, so if I do this, say add half at the beginning and half in the last 15 minutes, do I need to adjust my overall boil time for the hops? And if so, how do I figure out what the adjusted boil time should be? I know that's probably an easy adjustment for you experienced guys but I'm still a noob.

Dennis

I personally don't adjust anything like that. The way I heard it explained that was nice for me was on a basic brewing radio podcast: Basic Brewing? : Home Brewing Beer Podcast and DVD - Basic Brewing Radio? 2006 It's the August 17th, 2006 one on this page, it's Chris Colby from BYO magazine talking about how you can get the best out of extract. He said basically you're making a double strength wort since you're usually boiling 2.5 gallons and adding about 2.5 gallons. So all you're doing with adding half at the beginning and half near the end is getting it pretty close to boiling the hops at the normal wort gravity. I doubt that the increase in extraction you get is going to throw your beers out of whack.

That being said if you do want to make those kind of adjustments I'm very happy with ProMash, which lets you do it under the "Hop IBUs" button by adjusting boil volume and wort gravity.

One thing I've always wondered about late extract additions: it takes a wile for my stove to get a boil going, and every one says take the kettle off the heat to add extracts, but when I do it takes a good 10 minutes to bring the water back up to boil, how do I do the timing then, stop the clock when I take it off the heat, or keep the boil time running even though its not boiling while and a bit after I add the extract?

That's why I don't bother timing the late addition. Removing the pot from the boil, stirring in the extract, bringing it back to the boil, and boiling five minutes is really much ado about nothing.

If you add the remaining extract at flameout, you'll be fine. If you're not using an immersion or plate chiller, that is. By the time your ice-in-the-sink chilling method gets the wort below sanitation temperature, sufficient time will have passed to ensure sanitation has taken place.

Cheers,

Bob

NQ3X said:

That's why I don't bother timing the late addition. Removing the pot from the boil, stirring in the extract, bringing it back to the boil, and boiling five minutes is really much ado about nothing.

If you add the remaining extract at flameout, you'll be fine. If you're not using an immersion or plate chiller, that is. By the time your ice-in-the-sink chilling method gets the wort below sanitation temperature, sufficient time will have passed to ensure sanitation has taken place.

Cheers,

Bob

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We recently brewed an AHS extract kit at a friend's house and the instructions were not only written for late extract addition but they had the balance added at flameout. It then said to leave the wort for 10 minutes (to sanitize malt) before chilling. We did it and it worked just fine.

Everyone is right, except prolonged boiling of wort doesn't cause caramelization. Its Maillard reactions that cause the wort to darken.

Caramelization and Maillard-reaction processes - and their resulting flavors - are often indistinguishable without sophisticated analysis, so confusion can be forgiven.

Maillard reactions involve amino acids and sugars, while caramelization is the pyrolysis of sugars. In other words, in a Maillard reaction the sugars and amino acids combine to create a variety of molecules which impact color and flavor. Caramelization is the oxidation of sugars, which process produces hundreds of chemicals.

In concentrated worts, both processes find an extremely hospitable environment. Malt wort is rich in both amino acids and sugars, so Maillard reactions are bound to take place. At the same time, there's a whacking great searing-hot metal slab - the kettle bottom - on which the wort sugars will caramelize. In fact, there are certain situations in which brewers specifically seek caramelization of wort sugars, like in brewing certain Scottish ales and Steinbier.

So, Edcculus, while you're right, you're also wrong.

Cheers,

Bob

Hey I could wikipedia fancy words too

Edcculus said:

Everyone is right, except prolonged boiling of wort doesn't cause caramelization. Its Maillard reactions that cause the wort to darken.

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OOOOOOO! Science! Get back here!



~M~

jmiracle said:

Hey I could wikipedia fancy words too

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I'm glad. Wikipedia is a fantastic resource, one to which I fly when I need to write something I know intimately that's difficult to articulate.

I should state for the record that the words are not just 'fancy'; they are accurate. They are the best words to describe the process. Would you prefer I wrote something like, "Parts of the big, shiny sugar thingies cling to parts of the long, twisty not-sugar thingies and make brown stuff"? That's what I was trying to articulate when I went to Wikipedia (and elsewhere) to get the Big Fancy Words.

Sorry if I confused you.

Bob

Yea, I forgot about the scortching action of adding extract. I thought caramelization had to happen at much higher temps and in dryer conditions than in wort though.


Edit:
Ok, I jumped the gun. It slipped my mind that most extract brewers are doing a concentrated boil (less than 5 gal). That environment is indeed favorable to caramelization. I'm used to all grain and full boil brewers mistaking what is actually miallard reactions for caramelization. Sorry for the confusion!

I do LA and small boils. I try to keep my malt to water ratio 1:1, meaning 1 gal to 1 lb.

I boil for 45 mins and remove the pot from the heat then add all remaining DME into the pot (1 lb at a time then stir and dissolve) and let sit for 15 mins. Done.

jmiracle said:

The only thing that needs to happen to the extract is it needs to be sanitized, boiling for 5 minutes would do that. The longer extract is boiled the darker it gets, so the late extract method is frequently recommended to get a closer-to-style color especially for lighter beers.

Apparently if the chemicals in hops are extracted in just boiling water rather than boiling wort, the taste becomes very harsh and vegetal, which is why you don't just boil hops and water for 55 minutes and add the extract in the last five. It needs some malt in there to make it taste right. Most people just split the extract in half and add half at the beginning and half in the last 15.

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That is a myth, i've done Bittering teas aswell as others, and have never heard such things. But at least we are all passed the "You need Wort to isomerize the acids" myth... That one really did me in.

Endovelico said:

But at least we are all passed the "You need Wort to isomerize the acids" myth... That one really did me in.

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I'll admit, I'm not nearly as up to date on the literature as Bob, but something does not compute here. Do you have any citations regarding wort's (non)contribution to AA isomerization during the boil?

I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm generally interested in this. If there's a 'myth' to be busted here, I'd like to know about it!

Jason

Edcculus said:

Yea, I forgot about the scortching action of adding extract. I thought caramelization had to happen at much higher temps and in dryer conditions than in wort though.


Edit:
Ok, I jumped the gun. It slipped my mind that most extract brewers are doing a concentrated boil (less than 5 gal). That environment is indeed favorable to caramelization. I'm used to all grain and full boil brewers mistaking what is actually miallard reactions for caramelization. Sorry for the confusion!

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Even with a concentrated wort, there shouldn't be caramelization. You won't see caramelization until temps are over boiling (i.e. nearly all the water is gone). A little googling shows that fructose will caramelize at 230°F while other sugars don't until over 300°F. As long as the extracts are mixed well, I don't think that can happen in any reasonable home brew boil.

Also, there was an earlier mention of using a late extract addition to reduce/prevent "extract twang". From my understanding, the twang comes from using LME that's past its prime and has nothing to do with boiling. Is there another cause?

I don't know the exact cause for extract twang; I just know it was recommended to me to do a Late Extract Addition to avoid it. I could be wrong about my info, hence, my sig (indicating how new I am to this). I do know a ton of info about brewing (nowhere near the massive amount the experts know), but I also lack experience.

Good info about the Maillard reactions. How do those reactions affect the taste?

Maillard reactions positively affect the taste of most beer. The melanoidins produced in the boil contribute to the bready and somewhat biscuty taste in some beer. I guess the late extract addition helps stop too much melanoidin production in a concentrated wort. Maillard reactions are common to anyone that cooks. Toasting bread, browning meat, searing a steak all fall under maillard reactions. In food, they create a pleasing depth of flavor as they do in small amounts in beer.

I'm not going to go into too much detail as to not further confuse the situation. For better info, check out the Brew Strong episode on Melanoidins at the Brewing Network.

Great description; thanks. Now, I can adjust my late extract addition quantities based on what I am tasting.