Help planning 60-gallon wine barrel fill

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theveganbrewer

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I am currently testing out a couple of recipes before choosing on and finalizing a recipe for a 60 gallon batch that will go into my wine barrel. I'm trying to get down in my head the process of doing something this large. I've read about doing collaboration brews, where a bunch of people brew 5 gallons of the same recipe, ferment at their homes, then bring it over to pour and age in the barrel. I don't have that luxury, I will be doing all 60 here, with a 10 gallon brew pot and some carboys.

Am I going to have to brew 6-7 batches, put them all in 6 gallon carboys (10-12 of them) ferment, then add to the barrel after they're ready? Is there anyway to do it in stages so I wouldn't have to buy so many carboys? Could I ferment 30 gallons, add to the barrel, then get started on the other 30 gallons and add a couple weeks later? Too much headspace in the barrel?
 
What kind of beer are you putting in? All grain? How long of a mash? I've done seven barrel fills now, most of which by myself.
I've done the brew, ferment in carboy, transfer method when I had a smaller system, and then I've done the brew in a day on the bigger system.
You can probably let an initial 30 gallons sit for a couple of days while the primary fermentation kicks off (if you primary in the barrel.) It could be a funfilled two days if you do back to back to back to back to back batches.
My last advice, is make 3 gallons more than you think you need. Sometimes those barrels are + or - five gallons.
 
I wouldn't have too much time in between staged fills, but I don't think its a problem to stage it. If you can schedule 2 weekends in a row to brew, I think filling it 30 gallon the first weekend and starting the fermentation will be fine. There will be plenty of CO2 to protect the beer while it waits for the second half of the barrel fill the next weekend. Assuming this is a lambic/wild beer, there is no need for carboys, just ferment right in the barrel. Its good food for the brett.

Also, wine barrels are 225L or 238L. There should be some kind of stamp or branding on the barrel indicating one of these numbers.
 
I am testing a couple different batches to figure out what to do. Maybe an Oud Bruin or a Flanders Red. I guess I never thought about fermenting right in the barrel. That could make this easier.
 
If you have the carboy capacity, I would brew the largest batches you can back to back in the shortest amount of time (might be a couple of weekends), ferment in primary until all of them are ready, then dump. Not that barrel aging is all that reproducible, but to me this seems like the most logical process that could readily be reproduced in the future. If you were going to try to brew it all in one weekend you could even do a no-chill method to save time and do a quick 5 gallon extract batch to serve as a starter in advance. Do all of your batches using no chill, then pitch from the same HUGE starter you made earlier.

Im not sure how large of a batch you are capable of, but even doing 10 gallon batches you shouldnt have to much of a problem doing it in one long, long weekend. Start early on Saturday, mash, sparge, transfer, clean mash tun while waiting on boil, mash while boiling, transfer to primary using no cool, repeat. Its not inconceivable to think you could do three batches that way in a 10-12 hour brew day, then rinse and repeat the next day! Sounds like a load of fun to me! Also sounds like a good way to get me kicked out of my own house, since I brew indoors :D
 
I have thought of doing this myself, but after doing a couple of double brew days of 8hours+ i dont know if i would want to do a triple brew day(11+ hours). You will definitely want to do 10gl batches, a good reason to upgrade your brew pot.
It might be worth your time to hook up with a local brew club in your area. Mine does group barral project all the time. eather way take pics and let us know.
 
Look in to the Rubbermaid brute garbage cans at lowes or Home Depot to use as fermentors. I have 2 40 gallon ones that I use. When I filed mine I did 3 10 gallon batches for 2 weekends, plus a batch I started previously to get the bugs and Brett going for a total of 65 gallons or so. Then put it all in the barrel at once.

It was a ton of work, but it really helped me hone my skills and learn my system - and was a reason to get a bigger kettle.
 
Look in to the Rubbermaid brute garbage cans at lowes or Home Depot to use as fermentors. I have 2 40 gallon ones that I use. When I filed mine I did 3 10 gallon batches for 2 weekends, plus a batch I started previously to get the bugs and Brett going for a total of 65 gallons or so. Then put it all in the barrel at once.

It was a ton of work, but it really helped me hone my skills and learn my system - and was a reason to get a bigger kettle.

What!? Why would you not just store it in the barrel? There is no magic to the barrel being filled all at once, and it's certainly better than storing your wort in a rubbermaid. O2 exposure alone. I do like the idea of doing 5 gallons earlier with your yeast and using that as a huge starter.

Weekend 1, fill barrel with 30 gallons of wort and 5 gallon starter. The next weekend fill barrel with another 30 gallons.

This way the beer will be fermenting strong during the week until the 2nd brewing weekend filling the headspace with CO2. Also you would probably have less foam over and save some volume.
 
What!? Why would you not just store it in the barrel? There is no magic to the barrel being filled all at once, and it's certainly better than storing your wort in a rubbermaid. O2 exposure alone. I do like the idea of doing 5 gallons earlier with your yeast and using that as a huge starter.

Weekend 1, fill barrel with 30 gallons of wort and 5 gallon starter. The next weekend fill barrel with another 30 gallons.

This way the beer will be fermenting strong during the week until the 2nd brewing weekend filling the headspace with CO2. Also you would probably have less foam over and save some volume.

I did a Flanders Red, so I didn't want to primary in the barrel. I used a clean American Ale strain and the Rubbermaid containers as primary for about 2 weeks and then racked from there in to the barrel with the 5 gallon batch from several months before and that is what had the Roeselare blend in it. Hopefully that makes more sense.
 
I did a Flanders Red, so I didn't want to primary in the barrel. I used a clean American Ale strain and the Rubbermaid containers as primary for about 2 weeks and then racked from there in to the barrel with the 5 gallon batch from several months before and that is what had the Roeselare blend in it. Hopefully that makes more sense.

Oh, yea, I thought you just left the wort in the rubbermaids and then racked to the barrel for primary.
 
Just to throw it out there, I would never ferment in a plastic tub and then go to a barrel. If you're making that much beer, why risk off flavors or contamination? Another thing you could do is start with 5 gallons in the barrel, then add each new batch to the barrel, effectively building up each time a larger amount of yeast. As long as you did each batch within 4-6 days, depending on fermentation, you'd have the C02 blanket to keep things safe. I think that would be cheapest and safest.
 
Just to throw it out there, I would never ferment in a plastic tub and then go to a barrel. If you're making that much beer, why risk off flavors or contamination? Another thing you could do is start with 5 gallons in the barrel, then add each new batch to the barrel, effectively building up each time a larger amount of yeast. As long as you did each batch within 4-6 days, depending on fermentation, you'd have the C02 blanket to keep things safe. I think that would be cheapest and safest.

If you want to keep all of the trub out of the barrel, I can't really think of another way to do it, other than using big conicals. I'm using my barrel as a solera, so I want to keep as much trub out of the barrel since I'm not planning on emptying it totally for years. If you're doing a lambic, or planning on emptying and cleaning it relatively frequently, I don't see a problem with just doing it in the barrel.

I'm not sure I follow the difference between using a 6 gallon fermentation bucket vs using a 30 gallon bucket. As long as you're not using it for garbage before you use it as a fermentor...

Either way, cheers! :mug:
 
If you want to be as stylistically accurate as possible, lambics are fermented in the wood and allowed to age on the trub and all. Flanders Red/Brown are typically fermented first and then put in the oak later.

You do have to be careful about only filling the barrel part way because the wood above the beer line will stay dry and allow more oxygen in than if it were full. So, if you're doing a lambic and fermenting primary right in the barrel, you'll probably be OK as long as you keep feeding it without too much time in between. If it's a Flanders, I'd recommending using glass for primary and rack it all to the barrel on the same day. Don't forget to save an extra 3 gallons or so to top off from angel's share losses.
 
So I did some more looking into these and I think they are LLDPE #4 plastic, not HDPE. I was going to buy one on Homedepot but then found one on Amazon with free shipping that stated what type of plastic it is. They were the same upc and model number as the BYO article linked to and the homedepot one.

I'm just wondering if maybe they are different at homedepot and are food grade, and the ones on amazon labeled LLDPE are not, or if they are all the same and LLDPE 4 is safe.
 
I don't use 5 gal plastic buckets either. It's stainless, glass, or a barrel for me. There's a reason you don't see much plastic in breweries.

If the beer is actively fermenting, you won't be getting oxygen in due to the amount of CO2 escaping - but you'd want to make sure you fill it as soon as that primary starts to slow down. Unless you're going to rack right on to the yeast cake for your next batch, I would primary a Flanders in the barrel as well just for simplicity. Actually, I just pulled my Flanders out of the barrel after 8 mo to finish aging in stainless (the oak was really getting strong). Came out great so far, very, very similar to Panil.

If you do primary then fill the barrel, you won't want that to sit long since it won't be releasing CO2.
 
I filled a barrel with a couple buds last summer. It was a used wine barrel that was a discard from a local brewery. It has been used a couple times: for wine, obviously, then an imperial saison.

I formulated a saison recipe with two row, wheat and special b. very little bitterness. I Happened to brew 10g of saison a month before, so repitched the fresh slurry into the 10 or 12 carboys of saison wort. we fermented all of it in glass carboys with saison blend (568) then racked to the barrel, full. It was a simple recipe that was at about 4.5 abv into the barrel, I want to say 1.006 or so.

I added Brett and Lacto slurry last fall.

Almost a year later and we've pulled 15 gallons out and added 20 gallons, twice. Once in the winter And again about a month ago. The Brett dried it out to 1.000 and it tastes a little thin, even with about 10% wheat. That's about 5% finished out. Fully carbonated, it has some plum flavors that mix well with the wine and vanilla from the oak. It may have a little oxidation on the finish. Not a lot of funk (used Brett b. 'Trois') or sourness.

The 15 gallons that I pulled out about a month ago are being (1) dry hopped, and (2) aged with apricot. I also aged a portion for several months with a lot of Lacto, but it didn't really sour - guess there weren't enough sugars for the Lacto to play with. It has been really fun to come up with new combinations for this beer. It's also really nice to have a super delicious wine barrel aged beer around at all times.

It's definitely something I will try to replicate when I open my brewery later this year, www.thegoodbeerco.com

Ill have the variations of it on tap at the Southern California Homebrew Fest, a week from Saturday (yay!). Hope this gave you some ideas!
 
thought: brew up 30 gallons on weekend, ferment in carboys, add to barrel and flush barrel's headspace with CO2. this will counter oxidation until you get the second 30 gallons fermented and in there.

edit: BobbyM makes a good point, the top half of the barrel will dry out while waiting for the second 30 gals. if you wet the barrel from the outside would that help?
 
Update. I acquired a 55 gallon food grade lme barrel from my lhbs and have added an airlock. It holds pressure and is airtight. I will probably try to marathon brew 55 gallons or so split between my stove and outside burners. I'll have a couple carboys going with some bug heavy yeast cakes that I will pitch with the 55 gallons once its ready.
 
I have to ask. If you're not collaborating, exactly what are you going to do with 60 gallons of beer?
 
Drinking it I guess. Can't find anyone who wants to do any collaborating. I guess I could put up a post or something to see if there is anyone around here that I can get in on the project.
 
Never mind. I see you are up on OR. Surely there is a homebrew scene up there. Maybe you could persuade a local brewery to let you brew on their system. Or collaborate with them on a new brew and grab your 2 barrels worth?
 
Vegan, have you thought about having a local club help with the barrel fill? That's how we got our barrels; a guy (who's now in our club) moved here from NoCal with 4 newly acquired barrels and sought our club out. We just got 13-14 guys in on each barrel and it made it go really smoothly, though of course the beer has to be shared that way. Keep in mind that you will need extra beer (on top of the ~60 gal for filling) on hand to top up the barrel due to evap. We shot for ~70 gal for each barrel, and are already having extra 5 gal batches brewed to keep on hand in the barrel room for top up.
 
I know you started another thread and have apparently found some cohorts, but you only have to fill it alone once to get a solera going.
 
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