Consecration kit from MoreBeer

Those IBU's are totally different from what what brewTarget lists. Even though I fully grant that Beersmith is the better software 1.1for Sterlings @ 1 min seems high to me, as does the 19+ for the 30 min addition. This is what Brewtaget lists for the same hop schedule:

0.5 oz Styrian Goldings @ 90 min. (I received 6.7% AA)
1 oz Sterling @ 30 min. (I received 9.7%)
1 oz Sterling @ 1 min. (I received .5%)

Gives a total of 16.9, which brewtarget says is 17 IBU.

Sorry - I should be more clear. When I say "I received" I meant those were the AA%s of the hops I got in the mail. To be more clear:

0.5 oz Styrian Goldings (4%) @ 90 min. = 7.5 IBU
1 oz Sterling (7.3%) @ 30 min. = 19.7 IBU
1 oz Sterling (7.3%) @ 1 min. (I received .5%) = 1.1 IBU
(see the image for reference)

That gives a total of 28.3 IBU. When you entered into BrewTarget, what AA% were you using for each hop?

Shameless bump. I'm brewing this on Friday and hoping to have the IBU issue locked down before then. It'd hate to wait a year to find out I screwed it up!

Well regardless if the calculations are right or wrong. It is ferminting and I will let you know in 8-12 months

mmonacel said:

Shameless bump. I'm brewing this on Friday and hoping to have the IBU issue locked down before then. It'd hate to wait a year to find out I screwed it up!

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try the calcs with 60 min boil add for the hops instead of 90. (you will boil 30 min w/o hops).
or whatever to get 15-20 ibu

My flanders were about 15 IBU and compared well with Consecration.

For the record Brewtarget is listing the Sterlings as having 4.5% on average.

I am inclined to agree with midfielder5 though. 28 IBU is going to be way to high.

BenWillcox said:

For the record Brewtarget is listing the Sterlings as having 4.5% on average.

I am inclined to agree with midfielder5 though. 28 IBU is going to be way to high.

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Yes, looking at this on a computer vs my phone, shows that the Sterling is way high in AA% so that 30 min addition is probably where you can cut it in half (use 0.5 oz).

Agreed - I have no problem dialing it down to reach the suggested IBU range, but I assumed something had to be incorrect on my end since all the grains and everything else was portioned / sized out appropriately to fit the suggested ranges. Sounds like it might just be another small glitch in the packing of this and I just got some "extra" hops. I'm sure they won't go to waste... Thanks guys.

When planning out for my water it looks like my mash pH is going to be on the low side. Would reducing the acid malt by an ounce or two affect this in any real way do you think? Doing that would put me into the needed mash range (with the other ions balanced out correctly as well). My guess is it would be fine, but I'm not sure the purpose of the acid malt here since I'm guess alone isn't going to provide much sourness at about 4% of the grist. Your thoughts?

mmonacel said:

When planning out for my water it looks like my mash pH is going to be on the low side. Would reducing the acid malt by an ounce or two affect this in any real way do you think? Doing that would put me into the needed mash range (with the other ions balanced out correctly as well). My guess is it would be fine, but I'm not sure the purpose of the acid malt here since I'm guess alone isn't going to provide much sourness at about 4% of the grist. Your thoughts?

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These beers are very acidic. In fact, they are heartburn bombs, especially if you already have a predisposition for it. The LAST thing I would add to one of these sour beers is acid malt.

I don't ever mess with my water beyond a bit of gypsum or calcium chloride, so maybe I'm missing something here.

Nesto said:

Thanks Matt - that's helpful. Once more question for you and anyone else who wants to chime in. I thought I've seen that Vinnie uses a Brett mix along the lines of: 50% Brett Brux., 10% Brett Claus., 10% Brett Lambicus, and his RR Funky mix of Brett, Pedio, Lacto.

I'll pitch Brett only first. I don't know of any Brett only mixes, just pure Brett strains. Should I go with Brett L.? I'm making a 10 gal batch, and considering splitting secondary into two with one Brett L and one Brett B, just to see what comes out. And of course pitch something like Roeselare 7-8 weeks later. Thoughts?

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Sorry if I repeat what others have said here...

Vinnie does an initial fermentation with WL Abbey Ale Yeast. He then removes that yeast (cold crash), pitches brett and adds the fruit, and lets it sit at 60F for 2+ months. Then, more brett and bacteria are added and left for another 3-ish months in the cab barrels. Then, bottled with the wine yeast and another 2 months of aging before sale.

passedpawn said:

These beers are very acidic. In fact, they are heartburn bombs, especially if you already have a predisposition for it. The LAST thing I would add to one of these sour beers is acid malt.

I don't ever mess with my water beyond a bit of gypsum or calcium chloride, so maybe I'm missing something here.

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The Grain Bill for the morebeer kit contains 8 Ounces of Acidulated malt. I assume this is what he is asking about. Personally I wouldn't mess with your water unless it is really off. Of course I would also be (am) tempted to use bottled spring water for the recipe.

Don't mess with your water. You could be lowering ph in the wrong way. Try a partial sour mash to mix in with your main mash.

Interesting about the heartburn thing. I've found that lactic acid isn't so bad on the stomach and can be helpful with digestion (think kombucha). Acetic acid on the other hand... That'll wreck my stomach three ways to Sunday.

BenWillcox said:

The Grain Bill for the morebeer kit contains 8 Ounces of Acidulated malt. I assume this is what he is asking about. Personally I wouldn't mess with your water unless it is really off. Of course I would also be (am) tempted to use bottled spring water for the recipe.

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Yes - I was referring to the acid malt in the grain bill. My water is super soft and basically free of ions (almost distilled), which is great for pilsners, but not so much for other beers. I've found if I don't build up my water appropriately I get a very flabby beer due to the mash pH being outside the target range (5.4-5.6 at room temp; 5.1-5.3 at mash temp) and my ion levels Ca, Mg, etc. being super low. Usually adding in some gypsum, Calcium Chloride, and a little Epsom salt gets me to where I need to be mash pH and ion-wise for a good conversion and bright flavors.

That amount of acid malt though throws my mash pH for a bit of a loop and drops it very low. Backing off an ounce or two would put it back in the sweet spot.

Is the recipe kit particulars listed anywhere other than that Beersmith shot a couple pages back? Or does it come with the kit when you buy it? I didn't see it listed on their site.

I'd like to do this but I already have in stock all of the stuff listed other than currants and the consecration wood chips. I'm not sure if paying 50 bucks is worth it just for those things alone. I would be happy soaking some chips in cab and doing it that way...

It's further up in this thread...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/consecration-kit-morebeer-332929/#post4178879

Note that however it also discusses an issue with the original instructions and an incorrect IBU figure. I think it gets you what you're looking for though. Just keep reading.

Read the whole thread and now I'm seeing it all. Now I need to source some currants. Thanks a bunch...

Does any one have the Beersmith specs (potential and SRM) for the dried currants? I've already corrected the hops additions.

Irrenarzt said:

Read the whole thread and now I'm seeing it all. Now I need to source some currants. Thanks a bunch...

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Grocery store carries them with the other dried fruits, in with the snacks and chips. Look for this:

Would a small 5/10 gallon oak barrel behave too differently from RR's barrels to replicate? I'd be worried about the increased oxygen permeability and generally increased surface area of a smaller batch - would that just mean it would age/sour faster or would it promote too much acetic acid?

Perhaps a better bottle or glass carboy with the RR oak chips would better simulate the conditions of a large RR barrel? It would certainly be cheaper and easier to acquire.

I assume a bucket is out of the question - way too permeable for a long secondary, right?

To me, small barrels are worthless for extended aging. Too much surface area comparatively and too permeable.

Chips in glass/BB are the way.

I got 5g of this fermenting away right now. For secondary I currently only have 5g better bottles. Any thoughts on how much the currants are going to kick up in terms of refermentation and if I should just pick up a 6g better bottle to accommodate?

mmonacel said:

I got 5g of this fermenting away right now. For secondary I currently only have 5g better bottles. Any thoughts on how much the currants are going to kick up in terms of refermentation and if I should just pick up a 6g better bottle to accommodate?

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Besides some little bubbles, you shouldn't see any krausen with the added fruit. I've added currants (and cherries and other stuff) many times and never saw a new krausen. I think that's what you are asking. So, you'll be OK with the 5g.

Perfect. That was my main concern. Thanks!

How long are people planning on oaking the consecration kit? Should we do anything special with the oak chunks or just throw them in secondary with the currants? I'm not sure if the concensus on an oak starter is "waste of time" or "valuable bugs to take advantage of"

I've received this kit too. I was surprised by the high mashing temp. I guess that is to compensate for the different yeast/bugs eating away at the sugars. I've have success with Orval style beers mashed a little lower. I'm only pitching the Brett B. at bottling with those, not letting them age and sour in the fermentor.

passedpawn said:

Grocery store carries them with the other dried fruits, in with the snacks and chips. Look for this:

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can i get a measurement on the amount of currants to add?

thanks!

Dan

2lbs

sKafifer said:

can i get a measurement on the amount of currants to add?

thanks!

Dan

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RR adds 30# per wine barrel. I believe a wine barrel is about 60g, so 0.5# per gallon would be the right number.

I just put 2lbs because that's what the kit had in it

leolee86 said:

I just put 2lbs because that's what the kit had in it

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For 5 gallons that's gonna be great. I'm excited for you guys giving this a go. I'm kegging a batch of my own in about an hour.

I have a pack of the Wyeast Lambic and a pack of the Roselare - what's the consensus on which one to go with? I'm going to follow the 2-3 day @ 72F with the abbey ale yeast and then rack to secondary and add the bugs.

I did the 3 day..then rack onto the currents and whitelabs sourmix vial

My understanding of the directions is that we should save the oak until after the beer is sour, and then oak until done. Is that correct? Oak isn't added on day 1 in secondary?

Correct, add the oak after you get the sourness you want..the page says 1-3 months

Just racked over and pitched Roeselare. Both OG and FG looked spot on. When adding the currants, does anything special need to be done? I don't remember seeing anything in the instructions however I'm wondering if I should be soaking these in alcohol or something or just pitching them right in. Also, I didn't do any aeration when pitching the blend - just purged with CO2, racked, pitched, and purged again. Sound right?

That's what I did as well.. and I didn't worry about cleaning the currants, figured the sour mix would take care of anything bad that happened...it only took a couple hours before I could see the sour working its magic

Me and brewing buddy just racked 2 kits into carboys for secondary. Thought I'd pass along a few notes and ask a question:
1. Looks like kits are still available
2. Consider NOT using Roeselare for the initial secondary. Only reporting on research here, not results, but Vinnie lets his brett blend (with no pedio or lacto) work for 7-8 weeks before pitching a brett/pedio/lacto blend (so use Roeselare after 7-8 week in secondary). Apparently the pedio and lacto can make the beer inhospitable for the brett (lowering pH), so he likes to give the brett a head start and pitch the bugs later.
3. What brett to use for initial secondary? We thought about making our own brett blend, but finally decided to use brett lam for one 5 gal batch and brett brux for the other. We'll blend at the end of it all.
4. Brett is very heat tolerant... I've read and been told varying temperature profiles for secondary. Finally decided not to worry about it. Brett lives and works pretty well up to 89F - just going to let it go where it wants to go.

So the question is a few months away, but is anyone considering soaking the oak chunks in cabernet before adding?

I purchased this kit today and am really looking forward to brewing it. This has been one of the most helpful threads I have come across.