Help Me Make an "ORDINARY" APA not Bitter

Alright, I'd like to make an ordinary APA. I know that I want it to be American malts and cascades. I'm thinking about basing it off of Jamils ordinary bitter recipe found here http://beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/JamilsOrdinaryBitter.htm.

This is what I have so far.

6 lbs pale 2 row
8 oz crystal 120
4 oz Amber malt
Nottingham

1 oz. Cascade 60 minutes
0.50 oz. Cascade 30 minutes
0.50 oz. Cascade 1 minute
0.25 oz. Cascade dry hop


Any suggestions would be great.

Thanks,
J

Are you trying to stay in the style guidelines of an ordinary, but with American malt and hops? Because your looking at about 3.1%ABV and an OG of about 1.032 which is far too low for an APA and an even an ordinary. Unless you are shooting for higher than 75% efficiency, I'd say you need to up the 2 row. The C120 will also give you a dried fruit thing going on. I'm not sure if you like that, but I avoid that high of crystal for my pales. I prefer the 40-60 range caramel notes.

jmo88 said:

Are you trying to stay in the style guidelines of an ordinary, but with American malt and hops? Because your looking at about 3.1%ABV and an OG of about 1.032 which is far too low for an APA and an even an ordinary. Unless you are shooting for higher than 75% efficiency, I'd say you need to up the 2 row. The C120 will also give you a dried fruit thing going on. I'm not sure if you like that, but I avoid that high of crystal for my pales. I prefer the 40-60 range caramel notes.

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Well, I really like the low abv, but complex stuff that an ordinary bitter has going on. So to answer you question yes, I'm trying to use American grains/hops, but in the guidelines of a ordinary bitter. What would you recommend?

I'm not exactly clear on what you are after here. Do you want it to be less hop forward and have a maltier base than a normal APA? Your hop schedule is all kinda late to be bitter based.

HalfPint said:

Well, I really like the low abv, but complex stuff that an ordinary bitter has going on. So to answer you question yes, I'm trying to use American grains/hops, but in the guidelines of a ordinary bitter. What would you recommend?

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Well, to go with what your after here, I'd still up the 2 row by a pound and add 6oz of biscuit or victory. This does two things: 1. The increased malt will help balance out the stronger cascade (since your hop schedule is derived from EKG in the original recipe) 2. The victory adds a similar quality that your after in the British 2-row while still using american malts.

I've heard that many U.S. brewers U.S. brewers use small amounts of victory to English style ales to achieve a similar effect of British 2-row without the increased cost.

I concur. I wouldn't go below OG 1035 with this one, and you do need a bit more malt backbone to get round the more assertive American hops.

I'd choose a grist not unlike what you started with. Definitely swap 60L Crystal/caramel for the 120L; that much 120L will overpower the beer. Swap Victory for the Amber.

I also urge you to use a distinctively American yeast for this. Nottingham, while "clean", should be eschewed in favor of S-05, Wyeast 1056, WL001 or WL051 (if you want a slightly more assertive ester profile).

Cheers!

Bob

Bob said:

I concur. I wouldn't go below OG 1035 with this one, and you do need a bit more malt backbone to get round the more assertive American hops.

I'd choose a grist not unlike what you started with. Definitely swap 60L Crystal/caramel for the 120L; that much 120L will overpower the beer. Swap Victory for the Amber.

I also urge you to use a distinctively American yeast for this. Nottingham, while "clean", should be eschewed in favor of S-05, Wyeast 1056, WL001 or WL051 (if you want a slightly more assertive ester profile).

Cheers!

Bob

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Yeah, I may try S-05 being I'm a huge fan of dry "cheap" yeast. Hmm, I'm going to revise this recipe tomorrow and get back to you guys. My ultimate goal is to have a beer that I can drink a 6 pack of on Sundays while watching tv and not feel like an alcoholic at the end of the day.

Here's one I made about six weeks ago.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.67 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 6.67 %
0.50 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.67 %
0.75 oz Centennial [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops 21.5 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.75 oz Centennial [8.30 %] (60 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 4.3 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [8.30 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

70% Eff. - OG 1.034 - FG 1.009 - ABV 3.3% - IBU 28.7 - Mashed at 154 F.
Set it and forget it carbed to about 2.5 vol.
I ended up w/ 73% Eff and 3.5% ABV.

Pretty good after about 3 wks in a keg. Smooth malt flavor, no bitter bite, with some mild hop flavor in the background.

Next time i make this I'll probably remove the carapils and up the base malt by a 1/2 lb and bump the IBUs to 33 and bump the dry hop to one once.

Also the AA's of the hops would be nice or even if we have the HBU's you are aiming for.

5.4 IBU cascade pellets. Thanks for your help guys.

J

I would lose the crystal all together, increase the base bu a pound, drop the bittering to 1/2 and ounce, move the flavour from 30 to 20 minutes and bump up the flavour to 3/4 ounce and the aroma at 5 minutes with an ounce.

But that just looks good and I haven't ran it through any software to check out what it would actually look like.

boo boo said:

I would lose the crystal all together, increase the base bu a pound, drop the bittering to 1/2 and ounce, move the flavour from 30 to 20 minutes and bump up the flavour to 3/4 ounce and the aroma at 5 minutes with an ounce.

But that just looks good and I haven't ran it through any software to check out what it would actually look like.

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You know, that sounds really good. I may run with this. I didn't really do any research about a session APA before I did the OP, but check this recipe BM came up with. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/aberdeen-brewery-session-haus-ale-3-5-ag-37334/

I think that looks really close to what I may actually want to do except for I'd go with all cascades and no Pearle.

HalfPint said:

You know, that sounds really good. I may run with this. I didn't really do any research about a session APA before I did the OP, but check this recipe BM came up with. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/aberdeen-brewery-session-haus-ale-3-5-ag-37334/

I think that looks really close to what I may actually want to do except for I'd go with all cascades and no Pearle.

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Yeah, that do look good.

I like an all cascade APA also. In fact I did one a while back that I have tapped now and while it is a bit lite on flavour, BMC people would love it.
I followed that one with a lot more flavour hops and the brew came out a lot better. Still low bittering, but higher on cascade flavour. I use some cara-pils from time to time, but generally don't use any crystal in my APA's.

boo boo said:

Yeah, that do look good.

I like an all cascade APA also. In fact I did one a while back that I have tapped now and while it is a bit lite on flavour, BMC people would love it.
I followed that one with a lot more flavour hops and the brew came out a lot better. Still low bittering, but higher on cascade flavour. I use some cara-pils from time to time, but generally don't use any crystal in my APA's.

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Exactly. I think rather than adding the pearle, this is what I'd do for a 5 gallon batch.

1 oz Cascade FWH
1/2 oz 30 mins
1/2 oz flame out

Then I'd dry hop with 1/2 or 1 oz in secondary.

What do you think of that?

I think it's all right. The only issue I have is that FWH imparts a significant amount of flavor on its own; you probably won't need the 30-minute addition.

Bob