Apfelwein... carb vs. non-carbonation

SSBrew - 728
Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
beergears

beergears

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
999
Reaction score
9
Location
somewhere east on Cape Cod
Thinking of making a batch...

How many have not carbonated their Apfelwein, and what is the effect on taste?


For a non-carb Apfelwein is it OK to bottle in wine bottles/corks?


My thinking is to carb part of the batch, and have some non-carb in wine bottles as a try-out.
 
That's what I did on my first batch - I split it half and half to see which one I preferred. Carbonated won, BTW. They're both good, don't get me wrong ...

Give it a shot ... it's all about seeing what style you prefer. :)
 
i did my first batch non carbed and i loved it but def think carbed would be even better wine bottles and corks are fine for non carbed
 
For non carbed is it ok to just use regular bottles? Maybe use the oxy caps to help reduce the oxygen in the headspace?
 
I've done both carbed and non-carbed, I prefer carbed. For bottles, you can use regular wine bottles. If you're worried about oxidation and you have a kegging setup just purge the bottles with a little co2 before filling. Or, just drink it fast enough that you don't need to worry about oxidation.
 
Carb it! Carb it! Carb it! :rockin:

We just tasted our first batch of the stuff tonight, and hands down love it! My daughter and I bottled it with 5 oz of corn sugar three weeks ago. It is wonderful stuff. I wouldn't bother with not carbing it now that I've tasted it carbed.

Ed is right. I need to start another batch right away. Maybe over Thanksgiving week when I have a little time off of work.

Ed, you have started a good thing here. :mug:

Jennifer

Oh yeah, we just put in in beer bottles and capped it. It works out to two wine glasses per bottle that way.
 
I also prefer it carbonated. When we first tried the stuff, it reminded us so much of champage, we decided to carbonate it that way. I added 8.7 oz of dextrose to the five gallon batch to get around 4 volumes of CO2 (accounting for residual CO2 at my bottling temperature) and bottled in 1 L, swing-top bottles. After a couple weeks at room temperature, it was brillantly clear. After a couple days in the fridge, the carbonation was right on target. It poured just like champagne.

The effect on taste is that you get that carbonation bite and detect CO2 in the nose. It really crisps it up nicely.

However, it's great stuff, still or carbonated.


TL
 
TexLaw said:
I also prefer it carbonated. When we first tried the stuff, it reminded us so much of champage, we decided to carbonate it that way. I added 8.7 oz of dextrose to the five gallon batch to get around 4 volumes of CO2 (accounting for residual CO2 at my bottling temperature) and bottled in 1 L, swing-top bottles. After a couple weeks at room temperature, it was brillantly clear. After a couple days in the fridge, the carbonation was right on target. It poured just like champagne.

The effect on taste is that you get that carbonation bite and detect CO2 in the nose. It really crisps it up nicely.

However, it's great stuff, still or carbonated.


TL
Click to expand...

Good to know. I was thinking about using 5oz of dextrose for a 2.5-2.9 gallon batch, but I was a little bit worried about exploding bottles. I guess since you were able to do 8.9oz for a 5 gallon, I should be pretty safe. Hmmm....

Mike
 
njnear76 said:
Good to know. I was thinking about using 5oz of dextrose for a 2.5-2.9 gallon batch, but I was a little bit worried about exploding bottles. I guess since you were able to do 8.9oz for a 5 gallon, I should be pretty safe. Hmmm....

Mike
Click to expand...

Four volumes of CO2 is about what you would expect in a properly carbonated hefeweizen or witbier, so I would hope it would be safe. After chilling the bottle, we get a good pop and wisp of CO2 "steam," but no gushing or any other sign of dangerous carbonation.

And, we used 8.7 oz. I'd hate to think that extra 0.2 oz took it over the line.:)


TL
 
TexLaw said:
The effect on taste is that you get that carbonation bite and detect CO2 in the nose. It really crisps it up nicely.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more, to me it's all about the carbonation and the crispness. I force carb mine, til it resembles champagne. Good stuff!
 
you can try sprite or 7up to carb it up the cheap way, not sure on taste yet... my 1st batch will be done this weekend
 
TexLaw said:
Four volumes of CO2 is about what you would expect in a properly carbonated hefeweizen or witbier, so I would hope it would be safe. After chilling the bottle, we get a good pop and wisp of CO2 "steam," but no gushing or any other sign of dangerous carbonation.

And, we used 8.7 oz. I'd hate to think that extra 0.2 oz took it over the line.:)


TL
Click to expand...
Cool. I assume that you prepared the priming solution as you would with beer. Boiled one cup of water and mixed in the sugar?

Mike
 
Kevin Dean said:
When it's still it tastes very much like wine. When it's carbonated it tastes GOOD.
Click to expand...

It's funny, my brother-in-law insists that we carbonate it just so that it won't be considered a wine. He also insists on calling it a Dry Cider.

Shrug. The name doesn't bother me as long as it tastes good. I understand where he's coming from though. I'm not much of a wine drinker.

I think the next batch, I will experiment a little bit more. I plan on making a 4-8oz spice solution using rum, cinnamon stick, nutmeg, etc... I would probably prepare this a week before bottling day and add it to the bottling bucket along with the priming solution. The idea is to make an Apfelwein with a hint of spice.
 
njnear76 said:
It's funny, my brother-in-law insists that we carbonate it just so that it won't be considered a wine.
Click to expand...

I don't like wine. I'm not sure what it is about it but EVERY wine, even ones that are "good" taste like vomit to me. If I don't carb apfelwein that vomit taste is very noticable, but if I carb it it's enjoyable and tart to me.

I don't really know what to call it, nor do I really care. I end up explaining it rather than naming it. In the US most "normal" people think of cider as non-alcoholic and sweet. They think of beer as bitter and think of wine as still. None of which apfelwein is. :p
 
njnear76 said:
Cool. I assume that you prepared the priming solution as you would with beer. Boiled one cup of water and mixed in the sugar?

Mike
Click to expand...

Yep! Dumped that priming solution into the bottling bucket, racked the apfelwein in on top of it, gave a gentle stir just for good measure, and bottled straight out of the spigot.


TL
 
Kevin Dean said:
I don't like wine. I'm not sure what it is about it but EVERY wine, even ones that are "good" taste like vomit to me. If I don't carb apfelwein that vomit taste is very noticable, but if I carb it it's enjoyable and tart to me.
Click to expand...

The fact that you like it so much gives me great hope. I'm not much of a wine guy, but I like the idea of a cheap and easy highly drinkable apple flavored 8% alcohol beverage. The fact that I can bottle it in beer bottles and it has a long shelf life is an extra bonus.

My big decision right now is whether or not I want to prime the ~three gallons with 3oz or 5oz. I'm leaning towards 5oz based on the problems some people had with carbonation. Texlaw carbonates a bit more without any issues.
 
If you are carbonating it, don't use regular wine bottles. They and wine corks aren't made for that. You need champagne bottles and corks, if you want to go that way.

Twelve ounce bottles and other bottles meant to take carbonation pressure should be fine.


TL
 
I just tasted my Apfelwein for the first time. It's been fermenting a few days under a month. The first sip was not that good, but a few sips later it started to grow on me and taste good. It tasted like champange with an apple twist. Maybe when i sweeten it up a bit and give it some carbination it will be really good...Thanks Edwort..Hopefully my wife thanks you too..:)
 
So I bottled my apfelwein yesterday (yay!). I did use wine bottles and corks (didn't read the post above that recommended champagne bottles until just now). Am I ok? Or do I have a bottle bomb waiting to happen? Also, how long does the apfelwein need to prime and age now? Do I keep the bottles at room temp for a week, then transfer to the garage like I would beer???

Thanks in advance for any help.
 
nucmed24 said:
So I bottled my apfelwein yesterday (yay!). I did use wine bottles and corks (didn't read the post above that recommended champagne bottles until just now). Am I ok? Or do I have a bottle bomb waiting to happen? Also, how long does the apfelwein need to prime and age now? Do I keep the bottles at room temp for a week, then transfer to the garage like I would beer???

Thanks in advance for any help.
Click to expand...


I haven't bottled my Apfelwein yet, but it sounds like you're going to have a problem. If you primed, you've basically created carbonating pressure behind corks that will just get forced out of their wine bottles. Perhaps someone with more experience can tell you definitively, but I think you need to bottle with beer caps (beer bottles or champagne bottles) or use champagne bottles and champagne caps. Good luck!
 
Clearly it was in another thread...but I saw in one of the Apfelwine threads a suggestion to bottle at 1.010 for carbed or ferment out to <1.000 for still.

Is bottling Apfelwine in pressure proof bottles at 1.010 for dry and carbed a good idea or have I gotten mixed up?
 
1.010 sounds high. That's about the same as adding a pound of dextrose to a five gallon batch that fermented out. I added 8.7 ounces to a five gallon batch that had fermented out with great results. I don't think I would want any more than that in there.


TL
 
jmulligan said:
I haven't bottled my Apfelwein yet, but it sounds like you're going to have a problem. If you primed, you've basically created carbonating pressure behind corks that will just get forced out of their wine bottles. Perhaps someone with more experience can tell you definitively, but I think you need to bottle with beer caps (beer bottles or champagne bottles) or use champagne bottles and champagne caps. Good luck!
Click to expand...

So... if I need to bottle in grolsch bottles instead of wine bottles with corks (I don't have champagne bottles), is it going to be OK to uncork the bottles, pour them back into my bottling bucket, and re-bottle them in grolsch bottles? Or is my batch screwed. I would be concerned with oxidation from all the transfering.

Also, do I need to now add more priming sugar? They were just bottled last night, and I am able to uncork them tonight to rebottle.
 
nucmed24 said:
So... if I need to bottle in grolsch bottles instead of wine bottles with corks (I don't have champagne bottles), is it going to be OK to uncork the bottles, pour them back into my bottling bucket, and re-bottle them in grolsch bottles? Or is my batch screwed. I would be concerned with oxidation from all the transfering.

Also, do I need to now add more priming sugar? They were just bottled last night, and I am able to uncork them tonight to rebottle.
Click to expand...

Well, I would be a bit concerned about oxidation too, but I don't see that you have any other choice. Maybe try very gently pouring it out as to not splash or at least splash as little as possible.

If you don't uncork them, they'll uncork by themselves. Wine bottles and corks are not meant to hold pressure and will blow. You can bottle still apfelwein in them, but not carbonated drinks.

You probably don't need to add more priming sugar, since you just primed them last night. Maybe check the sg in your bottling bucket just to make sure.
 
TexLaw said:
1.010 sounds high. That's about the same as adding a pound of dextrose to a five gallon batch that fermented out. I added 8.7 ounces to a five gallon batch that had fermented out with great results. I don't think I would want any more than that in there.


TL
Click to expand...

Thanks TexLaw I think I agree with you that 4 volumes of CO2 ought to be plenty. I found the following on page 229 of the big thread:

Neomich said:
My current batch was at 1.010 this past weekend. It is very clear and very tasty. I'm considering bottling it this coming weekend if it gets all the way down to the target FG. However, I don't plan on intentionally carbing it. Since there is a small amount of sugars and small amount of yeast, would this provide sufficient carbonation if I don't let it get down to 1.000? Or I guess my real concern is whether or not it would create bottle bombs? I realize there's always a chance but I wanted to see if anyone has tried this themselves or knows the answers.
Click to expand...

and same post:

Schlenkerla said:
My Cider Book says if you bottle 1.010 it will carb on its own. No bottle bombs. If you do this be sure to comp for temp.

If you wait until 1.000 add 5oz by wt or 3/4 cup of corn sugar
Click to expand...

I guess I'll do some mathletics of my own, I am going to send Schlenkerla a PM with linky to see if he tried it.

I have a wake coming up on 12-15-2007, the guy was only 42. Lived out in the country, his wife gave CPR 42 minutes waiting on EMS. Five gallons of Apfelwine...
 
My cider book, Cider, by Annie Proulx & Lew Nichols says this.

"To bottle up a batch, sugar each bottle w/ two teaspoons of sugar or, more efficiently adding enough sugar to the dry bulk cider to bring up the specific gravity to 1.010, and then bottling. This amount of sugar will add 1% of alcohol to the finished batch of cider."​

This is the excerpt from page 69, verbatum.

I have never tried this. I alway let mine go to 1.000 or less.

If you are concerned about bottle bombs you can check the carb every few days to see if its good enough then. Stash them all in the fridge or pasterize by boiling the capped bottles for 10 minutes each. Air cool them w/o clinking the bottles. I suppose you can wire the corks in too.

I hope this helps - I'm going to Cancun in a few days so I won't be online much. OK
 
i have yet to try the uncarbed ones of mine...I have about a 6 pack uncarbed, and about 18 carbed bottles left that I have been bottle aging for about 9 months now
 
mot said:
i have yet to try the uncarbed ones of mine...I have about a 6 pack uncarbed, and about 18 carbed bottles left that I have been bottle aging for about 9 months now
Click to expand...


At 9 months they should be great!!

:mug:
 
Schlenkerla said:
My cider book, Cider, by Annie Proulx & Lew Nichols says this.

"To bottle up a batch, sugar each bottle w/ two teaspoons of sugar or, more efficiently adding enough sugar to the dry bulk cider to bring up the specific gravity to 1.010, and then bottling. This amount of sugar will add 1% of alcohol to the finished batch of cider."​

This is the excerpt from page 69, verbatum.

I have never tried this. I always let mine go to 1.000 or less.

I hope this helps - I'm going to Cancun in a few days so I won't be online much.
Click to expand...

Excellent. Have a safe trip. Honestly I am glad I am not any more forgetful than SWMBO already knows about.

So on the mathletic mat, we know 5ozs of corn sugar is good for 0.005 SG points in 5 gal, and 2.0 to 2.7 "ish" volumes of CO2. So eight ounces will be about 8 points and not quite four volumes, so I at least used the same reference TexLaw did.

Finish gravity is here: https://cdn.homebrewtalk.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=2945&c=1&userid=4569 , thank you EdWort. 0.998 final +0.005 to +0.008 to prime, I shall bottle between 1.003 and 1.006.

I am ass/u/me-ing Schlenkerla's reference is for cider with no added corn sugar.
 
Poindexter said:
I am ass/u/me-ing Schlenkerla's reference is for cider with no added corn sugar.
Click to expand...

It could be. If you can add sugar to reach 1.010 from priming why not bottle at 1.010 as its fermenting out from the OG? It might be a harder target to hit.

I think the safe bet is to let it go to 1.000 then add 1oz/gal of corn sugar. If you add 8oz it will be really efforvesent.

:mug:
 
Schlenkerla said:
If you add 8oz it will be really efforvesent.

:mug:
Click to expand...

It is quite effervescent, along the lines of champagne, and the CO2 contributes noticeably to the flavor and aroma profiles. That's what I was shooting for, though.


TL
 
My carboyed apfewein is just about to pass the month milestone, still bubbles a bit.

When should I go to bottles, and should I expect to se the traditional "flat" gravity response for a couple of days, like with beer..?
 
Yes. If you are bottling, let the yeast finish. Check with a hydrometer. If you did the original recipe, and your SG > 1.000, you're pretty well finished and probably are safe to bottle.


TL
 
I must thank EdWort's for the Apfelwein as my girlfriend loves it. She also wonders why it gets her drunk so fast?( she doesn't know its 8% and she doesn't need too either) and this is why I am thanking you!

Joking aside, it is GOOD!
 

Similar threads

Tomas Ramirez
Bottle Conditioning
Replies
13
Views
710
Tomas Ramirez
Tomas Ramirez
S
Bad wine
Replies
5
Views
491
Midway Island
Midway Island
D
whats in my wine?
Replies
11
Views
370
Midway Island
Midway Island
Lollim96
Sealed transfer of sparkling wine to bottles advice needed please!
Replies
3
Views
550
Bobby_M
Bobby_M
P
is carbonation part of conditioning activities
Replies
5
Views
808
CascadesBrewer
CascadesBrewer
Brewer's Friend 300

Latest posts

Back
Top