Looking for a wiring diagram/parts list

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lwcm

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After about an hour of scrolling and searching I'm throwing the question to the hive mind. I am looking for a diagram that allows me to plug into an existing 3 wire 240v 35A outlet (and use a gcfi spa panel so I don't....ya know: die or burn my house down) and power one element and a chugger pump. Planning for PID control.

Can anyone point me the right way?

Thanks in advance
 
Biggest problem you'll have is that a 3 wire 220 V outlet will not have a neutral. You will need a neutral for the 120V pump. Also, you need the neutral for the GFCI to work. If you look at the diagram PJ drew in the linked thread, he's using 110 line, neutral, and ground. So, that will be your first problem to solve.

Edit: Perhaps you already know this since you mentioned that the diagram is close to what you need. So I apologize if I've offended you.
 
The above is a valid concern - if you have a 3 wire outlet, but want to run 240 and 120, you'll need 4 wires to do it. It is generally considered a bad idea to have your ground server as the neutral, which is the only way you'd be able to get 120 and 240 off 3 wires. It increases your "burn the house down" probabilities. Consider getting a pump that will run on 240v if you can find it and forget about the need for 120 and you're fine.
-Kevin
 
Crudbuckets.....dang old wiring. Well there is a 120v outlet about 5 feet or so away from the 240v outlet and they are on different circuits. So I guess for simplicity's (kind of) sake I'll just have to power the pump independently. Perhaps (not sure if this is possible) make the pump switch the 'gatekeeper' for powering the PID and element? Since the pump has to be submerged and so does the element to prevent...well destruction, that might be a handy anti-moron feature :).
 
You could definitely run the pump off the 120v circuit and the element / PID off the 240v circuit. This would probably be the best and easiest option, just make sure you keep everything nice and separate in the panel to eliminate the chance of shorting something out between the two circuits and you're good.
 
Crudbuckets.....dang old wiring. Well there is a 120v outlet about 5 feet or so away from the 240v outlet and they are on different circuits. So I guess for simplicity's (kind of) sake I'll just have to power the pump independently.

Each circuit should also be GFCI protected more for the "so you don't get killed" factor. Please keep that in mind!

Perhaps (not sure if this is possible) make the pump switch the 'gatekeeper' for powering the PID and element? Since the pump has to be submerged and so does the element to prevent...well destruction, that might be a handy anti-moron feature :).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Your pump has to be submerged? Are we talking an aquarium pump? Otherwise, I'm a bit confused as to why you may want the PID power to be controlled by the same switch as your pump.:drunk:
 
Biggest problem you'll have is that a 3 wire 220 V outlet will not have a neutral. You will need a neutral for the 120V pump. Also, you need the neutral for the GFCI to work. If you look at the diagram PJ drew in the linked thread, he's using 110 line, neutral, and ground. So, that will be your first problem to solve.

Edit: Perhaps you already know this since you mentioned that the diagram is close to what you need. So I apologize if I've offended you.

Note: Underlined statement is not true. The normal dryer and range circuits are set up with 2 hots (240V) and a Neutral. This is due to the fact that dryers and ranges have both 240V & 120V devices within them.

With that said, there is a method (technique) to set up a Spa Panel to accomodate our needs for a brewery with 240V & 120V devices while being totally protected with GFCI. (The Spa Panel) I've posted many images (plans) to accomodate this mission.

Also BadNewsBrewery's comment:
if you have a 3 wire outlet, but want to run 240 and 120, you'll need 4 wires to do it
There is a way.

If the OP, lwcm, would like some more info.. Just say so.

P-J
 
I would love more info P-J. I'm an electrical moron so every little bit helps. So I'd still be looking at: 3 hole dryer outlet ->GFCI Spa panel->PID and pump control box?

To attempt to cut down on my dumb newb questions I'm going to read some stickied electrical info and look through some of your other posts P-J.

On the pump: I'm a moron. I just meant that you couldn't run it dry. Was/am planning on getting a chugger pump.
 
Note: Underlined statement is not true. The normal dryer and range circuits are set up with 2 hots (240V) and a Neutral. This is due to the fact that dryers and ranges have both 240V & 120V devices within them.

With that said, there is a method (technique) to set up a Spa Panel to accomodate our needs for a brewery with 240V & 120V devices while being totally protected with GFCI. (The Spa Panel) I've posted many images (plans) to accomodate this mission.

Also BadNewsBrewery's comment: There is a way.

If the OP, lwcm, would like some more info.. Just say so.

P-J

P-J, can you play the same trick with the spa panel if you have a H-H-G circuit rather than a H-H-N?
 
P-J, can you play the same trick with the spa panel if you have a H-H-G circuit rather than a H-H-N?

Please define your H-H-G circuit. What is it used for and how is it wired? What is the circuit breaker size? Also the wire type used for the power delivered? When was it installed? (date wiring completed)

Lots of questions but lots of info so that a proper conclusion can be reached.

Help me help you.

P-J
 
Please define your H-H-G circuit. What is it used for and how is it wired? What is the circuit breaker size? Also the wire type used for the power delivered? When was it installed? (date wiring completed)

Lots of questions but lots of info so that a proper conclusion can be reached.

Help me help you.

P-J

I'm really just curious, as I always learn quite a bit from these dialogues. Also, I thought it prudent to point out that not every 3-wire circuit is H-H-N.

If I were to take a shot at answering my own question, I suspect that you could effect the same outcome with the spa panel if your ground wire ran back to the main panel where it was bonded together with neutral. However, it would not be a good idea if the ground wire were not insulated, or if it were not adequately sized for the current. If the ground wire ran to a to a rod or a water pipe then it would not work at all.

Does that make sense? By all means correct me if I'm off.
 
I'm really just curious, as I always learn quite a bit from these dialogues. Also, I thought it prudent to point out that not every 3-wire circuit is H-H-N.

If I were to take a shot at answering my own question, I suspect that you could effect the same outcome with the spa panel if your ground wire ran back to the main panel where it was bonded together with neutral. However, it would not be a good idea if the ground wire were not insulated, or if it were not adequately sized for the current. If the ground wire ran to a to a rod or a water pipe then it would not work at all.

Does that make sense? By all means correct me if I'm off.
Whatever --- . I asked you a series of questions. You choose ???

Done! Good luck.

P-J
 
P-J said:
Whatever --- . I asked you a series of questions. You choose ???

Done! Good luck.

P-J

Come on, P-J. There's no need for that tone! I mean, nobody is trying to be condescending or anything here! You always catch our mistakes when we've overlooked something, such as my bit of misinformation today! We are all trying to genuinely trying to help each other. You do have the gift of better knowledge than most of us. And for that, I'm sure I can speak for a lot of us, we are thankful for someone of your knowledge. But I would hope you could just keep in mind that you are trying to help others that don't quite know the right questions to ask or what information to provide with their question.

I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad, but I just want to keep a positive, and helpful atmosphere here. I really hope this isn't taken in the wrong way, but it's my feelings anyway. I harbor no hard feelings toward anyone here. Who knows, maybe you're just having a bad day. I know this Penguins loss tonight certainly isn't helping my mood.
 
"Please define your H-H-G circuit. What is it used for and how is it wired? What is the circuit breaker size? Also the wire type used for the power delivered? When was it installed? (date wiring completed)"

I'm certain that there is some resource that can point me towards being able to answer these types of questions but I have no idea where to look. I know that I plug my 5 year old dryer into this three prong outlet and it works. I also know that in the fuse box the portion that powers the dryer has two 35 amp tube fuses so I'm guessing that I have 35a service to that outlet. But far as being able to tell if it's a HHG or HHN outlet I have no clue. I would guess it's whatever the oldest standard for a three prong dryer outlet provided that standard is after 1945 or so. The wire looks like it's been there forever and it's a flat cable instead of round if that helps at all.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
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