Group Buy: Accuflex Bev-Seal Ultra barrier line

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Really, the 1/4" ones work fine with the screwdriver / heatgun (or otherwise) technique. I just ordered more barbs and didn't bother looking for 3/16". I'm getting a great seal with the 1/4" barbs with tubing melted on and no clamps... and I certainly am manhandling them. One of my shank ends came undone from moving stuff around, but the seal on the nipple was still good.
 
Really, the 1/4" ones work fine with the screwdriver / heatgun (or otherwise) technique. I just ordered more barbs and didn't bother looking for 3/16". I'm getting a great seal with the 1/4" barbs with tubing melted on and no clamps... and I certainly am manhandling them. One of my shank ends came undone from moving stuff around, but the seal on the nipple was still good.

+1 IMO, the 1/4" barbs will provide a much more reliable connection without the need for clamps. Installing the 1/4" barbs on 3/16" tubing is not as difficult as it initially appears.
 
yea i'm at 10ft/38*F/11psi and it seems pretty good. i started at 16ft and it was so slow it didn't even produce a round stream out of the faucet.

well...i just got a perlick 525SS faucet and now it's shooting out like a rocket (was using the standard cheap-o chrome faucet). i'm guessing the lower resistance of this faucet is why some of you need ~20ft?
 
There's not much of a difference between 3/16" and 1/4", just 1/16" in relative diameter. Most people use vinyl tubing, which is much stretchier than the plastic tubing, such as we are discussing in this thread.

I used the 3/16" tail pieces for my connections. I worked with a saucepan of boiling water and heating both the tubing and the tail piece. To get the tail piece started into the tubing, I first flared the end of the tubing with a small needle nose pliers. With the warmed up tubing and tail piece (heck, it was rather hot!), I was able to force the tubing around the very top of the tail piece. Once I got it started, I stuck it back in the boiling water to heat it some more, then I would take it out and grasp the tubing close to the end and hammer the tubing down around the tail piece by driving them down into the counter top. No problem getting the tubing flush on the tail piece with just a couple of heatings. It won't need a clamp. In fact, I doubt it is coming off unless I cut it off. I did notice that you can flare the end and stick it back in the water and it will shrink back to the original size...so remove from water, flare end with needle nose and get onto that tail piece.

Also...be careful. My stuff was hot enough to cause discomfort. I tried to use a towel to steady the tail piece and keep the heat off my hands.

Bernie

PS Don't forget to put your hex nuts on the line before adding that second tail piece!
 
Hey Folks-

Just wanted to share my line lengths in the kegerator for anyone who cares. I may tweak the specs a little bit (which is why I made so many of them) but all 5 are really pouring nice as is, so. Here they are and what's on tap. I'm sure you can guess I made the small ones first, not on purpose.

6 PSI - 7'
7 PSI - 8'
8 PSI - 9'
9 PSI - 10'
10 PSI - 11'
11 PSI - 12' - Oatmeal Stout
12 PSI - 13'
13 PSI - 14' - Belgian PA
14 PSI - 16' - RyeIPA
15 PSI - 18'
16 PSI - 20'
23 PSI - 30' - Berliner Weisse
30 PSI - 40' - Seltzer

(actually, my seltzer is at 35 PSI and I like it to pour a little faster since there's no foam. 40' works good)

Some folks were reporting that 20ft for 12.5 PSI was appropriate. I'm not finding that. I don't have that much head/rise though. Got 5 kegs in a 7.2 magic chef, so like 6" head and ~ 12" distance from taps. Chamber is at 40 degrees.

Also, the method described before using a heat gun, screwdriver, dunking in water, etc. has yielded that many sets (so times 2 - for a total of 26 barbs) with ZERO leaks or do overs. No clamps. And the line is pretty rigid, so during the install there were plenty of opportunities for a leak to be sprung (from manhandling and placement).

IMG_1099.jpg
 
thanks for posting that sanke.

i too only have about 6" of head as well and am finding that 20' is far too long. also -- what kind of faucets do you have?
 
525s with 4" 3/16 shanks. I put flare adapters (usually used for kegs) instead of barbs on the ends of the shanks so I could swap lines w/o taking apart the shank (which would require me taking off the insulation to get at the lock nut).
 
How much length might you add for say another 12" of rise (18" total)? I remember the chart that I originally used to set my system up a few years ago, but I wonder if those numbers would not be appropriate with this line?
 
I dunno. My experience is just with the one kegerator.

I could guess, but what do I know. I'd think you would want less length for more rise, though. Maybe you should try 1 ft per PSI. For my setup it seems to follow something like 1.15 ft per PSI.

Do a search for ' Beer Line Length and Pressure Calculator.xls ' and that could help you. It sort of helped me, but not really all that much.
 
Also, the method described before using a heat gun, screwdriver, dunking in water, etc. has yielded that many sets (so times 2 - for a total of 26 barbs) with ZERO leaks or do overs. No clamps. And the line is pretty rigid, so during the install there were plenty of opportunities for a leak to be sprung (from manhandling and placement).

I still haven't installed my line yet so your post was very helpful.

Am I understanding you correctly when you say you used no clamps at all to attach the hose to the shanks and the beverage connectors on the keg? You just pushed the line onto the barbs and that's it?
 
I second the "melt on the barb" philosophy. I found it was harder for me to use the boiling water method, and easier to use the heat gun. I just propped it up and could bring the work into the heat and out as needed. With the water you have to deal with wet + hot. Just my .02 cents. I did give a little "melt on the barb" heat at the end of wiggling the hosing on.
 
hey sanke --

also are your lines coiled anywhere? i can't tell from your pic...it looks like the lines go down to the bottom of the keezer then back up to the kegs, but that doesn't seem like 10+ ft?
 
I put them in between the kegs to maintain temperature to get as little foam as possible. That's actually a benefit of longer lines. More of it is down where it's cold.

I should probably get a little computer fan setup to circulate the cold air, but I've not done that.
 
I gave this stuff another shot last night and I think I'm getting the hang of it. The disconnect slipped on eventually without issue. It's the tailpiece I'm still having problems with. I was able to get it on after a fight but there was a slight leak, even with a clamp. However, I think I may have the technique down and as long as I am successful after trying again tonight I may be ordering some more of this.

In case you're wondering what I do I dip the end of the tubing in boiling water (as most do) and jam a large phillips head screwdriver in the end to widen it temporarily (as others do). After a couple tries with the disconnect it went on great. It takes a bit to get past the first barb on a 1/4" tailpiece but once there using some more heat and brute force (i.e. grasping the tubing and banging the tailpiece straight down on a hard surface until it gets to where you want it) it eventually works. I think the reason mine leaked is because I had bent the tubing during previous attempts so the tailpiece did not go on straight.
 
I gave this stuff another shot last night and I think I'm getting the hang of it. The disconnect slipped on eventually without issue. It's the tailpiece I'm still having problems with. I was able to get it on after a fight but there was a slight leak, even with a clamp. However, I think I may have the technique down and as long as I am successful after trying again tonight I may be ordering some more of this.

In case you're wondering what I do I dip the end of the tubing in boiling water (as most do) and jam a large phillips head screwdriver in the end to widen it temporarily (as others do). After a couple tries with the disconnect it went on great. It takes a bit to get past the first barb on a 1/4" tailpiece but once there using some more heat and brute force (i.e. grasping the tubing and banging the tailpiece straight down on a hard surface until it gets to where you want it) it eventually works. I think the reason mine leaked is because I had bent the tubing during previous attempts so the tailpiece did not go on straight.

I found it very easy to get the line on tailpieces by going through the normal boiling water/screwdrive/needlenose pliers method, but then pushing the hose onto the barb while the backside of the tailpiece was up against a wall. I was able to get it with one shot this way with all 4 of my taps.
 
hmmmm... I like the wall idea...sure beats banging the p*ss out of it on the counter...

I bet you will get it pushed onto the barb on the first try. Using the wall lets you control the direction of force as well as increase it by using your body weight.
 
Well after much more frustration trying with boiling water I gave in and bought a cheap heat gun from Harbor Freight. That was the key for me. Heat it until you can jam a large Phillips head screwdriver in there, push the fitting on, then heat the tubing again to shrink and set it around the barb. Worked like a charm and so far no leaks and no clamps needed. Might just buy another 100ft of this stuff now that I know I can use it...
 
Well after much more frustration trying with boiling water I gave in and bought a cheap heat gun from Harbor Freight. That was the key for me. Heat it until you can jam a large Phillips head screwdriver in there, push the fitting on, then heat the tubing again to shrink and set it around the barb. Worked like a charm and so far no leaks and no clamps needed. Might just buy another 100ft of this stuff now that I know I can use it...

Hey Boogie - FYI - we are down to our last 250' of this.
 
Has anyone played around with the length of the line for a nitro (beergas) tap? Usually the length of line for nitro doesn't matter all that much, but I was curious what has worked for others with accuflex. Thanks!
 
Hey gang - just FYI that we are now all sold out of this line. Would love to see more pics posted to this thread with everyone's tubing in action. Thanks!
 
I'm a n00b, so forgive me if this is an obtuse question, but wouldn't it make more sense to just order 1/4" ID tubing to decrease the length of line needed for each tap? Does this manufacturer not make 1/4" ID tubing?

The average keezer/keg setup only needs a handful of line between the keg and the tap, and it would be nice to not have the first half/three-quarters of your glass be beer that's been sitting in a line (especially for the beers you drink less often). It would also be nice to not have to manage 80ft of line inside cramped quarters.

Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks.
 
Yes, they offer 1/4" tubing. In fact, it's much easier to get. But...

1/4" would vastly INCREASE the length of line required. It's a wider diameter than 3/16" (1/4" = 4/16"), which would significantly decrease line resistance per foot, thereby requiring a much greater length to get the same total resistance.

Cramped quarters are not an issue because the outer diameter is much smaller than equivalent vinyl tubing. You can fit a lot more line in the same amount of space.

And lastly, beer sitting in the line is a non-issue. In fact, that's a major reason why many of us have bought this tubing. Beer that sits in a vinyl line for an extended period of time will start tasting like plastic. Beer that sits in barrier tubing such as this, even for months, will be just as good as the beer sitting in the keg.
 
I'm a n00b, so forgive me if this is an obtuse question, but wouldn't it make more sense to just order 1/4" ID tubing to decrease the length of line needed for each tap? Does this manufacturer not make 1/4" ID tubing?

The average keezer/keg setup only needs a handful of line between the keg and the tap, and it would be nice to not have the first half/three-quarters of your glass be beer that's been sitting in a line (especially for the beers you drink less often). It would also be nice to not have to manage 80ft of line inside cramped quarters.

Any clarification would be helpful. Thanks.

Not sure what you're basing all that on, but it's completely backwards.

3/16″ ID vinyl tubing = ~3 psi/ft
1/4″ ID vinyl tubing = ~0.85 psi/ft

Those numbers vary depending on the actual types of tubing, but their relationship won't change much.

So to balance a system you'd need like four times as much 1/4" ID tubing as 3/16", and then you'd have way, way more beer sitting in the tubing between pours...

Cheers!
 
I can't remember - has anyone used this tubing on their nitro tap? If yes, let me know!
 
So with the "glass-like" interior of this stuff, how long should it last?
Still replace it every year or is it almost ageless?
 
Not sure what you're basing all that on, but it's completely backwards.

3/16″ ID vinyl tubing = ~3 psi/ft
1/4″ ID vinyl tubing = ~0.85 psi/ft

Those numbers vary depending on the actual types of tubing, but their relationship won't change much.

So to balance a system you'd need like four times as much 1/4" ID tubing as 3/16", and then you'd have way, way more beer sitting in the tubing between pours...

Cheers!

I'm basing it on backwards thinking :D Thanks for the clarification.

I'm trying to figure out the advantage of this line over a more flexible line that requires less length. Maybe it's just the mysterious "Flushable Glas-Flex™ liner." The Basic 3/16" beer line at Midwest Supplies (their prices are ridiculous...this line can be had for cheap) states:

The 3/16" beer line is the best size use for most home systems. 6 feet will give a great pour in the 8 to 14 psi range. Provides proper restriction for runs under 10 feet. 6 feet is recommended for a foam free pour.


By using this line we apparently have a lower flavor retention in the line from the beer (How much? No idea.), and hopefully less "line flavor/smell" in the beer, however we increase the amount of beer in the line by a factor of 3. This line would need to be 3 times more effective at flushing to be equally effective to vinyl beverage line. We could also switch out with new regular beverage line much more often due to the lower cost involved with cheaper line and 3 times less of it to purchase/deal with.

Okay, I'm ready for everyone to blast this post. Thanks.
 
The Accuflex website states that the ID of this hose is actually 0.190, so it is larger than 3/16 = 0.1875. That could be another contributing factor to the longer lengths required.

(I haven't read all 233 posts up to this point, so if someone has already posted this, forgive me.)
 
Don't think it's the same thing. The Accuflex is impermeable, and thus its "flushing effectiveness" is literally infinite... therefore making it infinitely more "effective at flushing" than vinyl tubing (a lot more than 3!)

Your beer can sit in the line for really any amount of time, and not take on a plastic-like taste. Some people detect the taste in vinyl lines (from the vinyl and/or oxidation) after less than a day! Heck, once you taste your beers with barrier tubing, you may very well be able to pick out the vinyl taste no matter what. It's there. Either way, even if you're really insensitive to the off-flavors due to vinyl tubing, everybody has a point where the plastic and/or cardboard taste in that first pour is too strong to deal with causing them to dump it.

Also, since vinyl is permeable (easily demonstrable by how quickly and easily it stains), it has a tendency to absorb flavors from beverages, which gets picked up by other beverages that end up using the same line. To me, that's a big issue... every beer served through vinyl lines is tainted by the beers that came before it. Barrier tubing like Accuflex doesn't pick up any flavors. As an extreme example, try serving carbonated water through the same vinyl tubing that was recently used to serve root beer. I guarantee that you're going to taste the root beer. But with this stuff, a simple flush of the lines, and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between brand new tubing, or tubing that has been serving root beer for a year! To get vinyl lines to perform similarly, you'd have to change the line AT LEAST as often as you switch what's being served. And that STILL wouldn't address any plastic off-flavors...


ocluke said:
The Accuflex website states that the ID of this hose is actually 0.190, so it is larger than 3/16 = 0.1875. That could be another contributing factor to the longer lengths required.

(I haven't read all 233 posts up to this point, so if someone has already posted this, forgive me.)

The line lengths are a function of resistance, and that's it. A .0025" (just over 1%) difference in ID isn't going to make an appreciable difference in resistance. The resistance is lower because of the material of the tubing itself. So the lines are longer because the material is different, plain and simple. That's all there is to it.

Bottom line is that it's a premium product. It's really the best beverage line available. And when you put it all into perspective, it really isn't that much of an investment to be able to taste your beer, and nothing else. You're not tasting your beer + vinyl, your beer + oxidation from the lines, or your beer + all the other beers that were ever served through the tubing. Just your beer.
In fact, it's marked up so little, that the price it's available to us for is significantly less than some other types of beverage line that don't even perform as well. And they are ALL purpose-made for serving beverages.

Vinyl tubing isn't though. It's just generic tubing, like I can buy at Home Depot. It wasn't ever made with serving beverages specifically in mind. Is it really any surprise that a vendor is trying to sell some generic tubing that costs next to nothing to buy in bulk?

Even still, the Accuflex tubing obviously isn't for everyone. To me, the reasonable cost of the premium stuff in order to get the most out my beer that I have spent so much time and money on is a no-brainer. But some people would rather not pay a mere $20 or $30 extra, and that's their call. It's your call. No one is forcing you to buy it. I made such a long post because I sincerely believe in the product, and believe in helping fellow brewers to make (and by extension, serve) the best beer they possibly can, but I'm not going to lose any sleep if you decide to go with vinyl.
 
Don't think it's the same thing. The Accuflex is impermeable, and thus its "flushing effectiveness" is literally infinite... therefore making it infinitely more "effective at flushing" than vinyl tubing

The great factor of "infinity." Gotta love it ;)

The whole purpose in my questioning is to arrive at the best product for the beer, so I appreciate your thorough response based on your own experience. I haven't done enough research to find the science that supports all these claims by the manufacturer. Reading the real world experience of fellow homebrewers here on HBT seems the be the best way to gauge the best option.

Cheers!
 
Does anyone know what size Oetiker ear clamps to purchase for this line when using 3/16" barb fittings? Here is the McMaster-Carr page with the various sizes. Thanks.
 
ocluke said:
Does anyone know what size Oetiker ear clamps to purchase for this line when using 3/16" barb fittings? Here is the McMaster-Carr page with the various sizes. Thanks.

I'll check when I get home

-=Jason=-
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Home Brew Talk
 
ok, here are the Oetiker clamps I bought. I try not buying from McMaster as they tend to be over priced and I have no idea what shipping is until I get billed.

http://www.installationpartssupply.com/category/oetiker-stepless-clamps.html

The 9-5mm or the 10-0 work great for the 1/4" barbs I have both sized in my system.
The 8-7mm worked great for the bottle filler I used 3/16" OD ss tubing on.

-=Jason=-
 
For all those people who are considering buying this, I will recommend it to anyone! I first equipped a small 2 keg kegerator set-up with fairly decent vinyl tubing and noticed hardly any flavor impact, however after a few kegs (despite cleaning), if the beer sat in the line for more than a day it was noticeable. For my new keezer set-up I bought vinyl tubing from a new LHBS and that plastic flavor was noticeable after just a few hours! I love this accuflex tubing and can't imagine going back to vinyl tubing.
 
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