Beersmith - Issue with Sparge volume

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dunleav1

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I'm doing a partigyle brew so I'm creating a recipe with the common base malts and I'm having an issue with the sparge volume. I'm doing a single step infusion mash with batch sparge.

I have recipe with 19# of grain I get the correct sparge volume when I hit preview brewsheet:
OG 1.043
19# grain
Saccharification 1.25 quarts per gallon
Mash out 2 quarts per gallon.
Sparge with 7 gallons.

This is perfect sparge volume for my partigyle but my OG is too low. I need to increase the grain bill. If I keep the same ratio's for the mash steps, beersmith comes up with a different sparge volume for the increased grain bill. WTF - I kept the same ratios. I would expect the volume of water in the mash steps to increase proportionately
OG 1.057
25# grain
Saccharification 1.25 quarts per gallon
Mash out 2 quarts per gallon.
Sparge with 4.91 gallons.

I am missing something ?

Thanks for the help.
JD
 
I like Beersmith, and I think it's a great program. But I do not like it's sparge calculations. I believe that it's grain absorption values are off. I'm a batch sparger, and I constantly need to modify the sparge value.

In regards to your situation, with proportionality, I'd have to say you need to do the math to double check. Maybe there is some brewing science in it somewhere, where it does not need to go up and down proportionally.
 
Yes, I'm a fan of Beersmith as well but the sparging stuff drives me nuts.

And yes, I am batch sparging.

How do modify the sparge value without modifying the mash in and mash out ratios?
I like my percentages with the 19# grain mill but not with the 25# grain bill.
 
How do modify the sparge value without modifying the mash in and mash out ratios?
I like my percentages with the 19# grain mill but not with the 25# grain bill.

Personally I found that if I add .75 gallon of sparge water to what Beersmith says, I end up great. I've been meaning to do a spreadsheet from the formulas from Ray Daniels gives for measuring water.

I'll look it up tomorrow and let you know the formulas.
 
Yes, I'm a fan of Beersmith as well but the sparging stuff drives me nuts.

And yes, I am batch sparging.

How do modify the sparge value without modifying the mash in and mash out ratios?
I like my percentages with the 19# grain mill but not with the 25# grain bill.

You can't. If you hold your liquor to grist ratio constant (e.g., 1.25 quarts water per lb of grain), then the higher the OG you are targetting, the lower the ratio of your sparge water. The only way you can keep it the same is to collect more runnings and boil longer to evaporate it off to compensate.

This is exactly how the software should behave, unless I do not understand your problem correctly.
 
I like Beersmith, and I think it's a great program. But I do not like it's sparge calculations. I believe that it's grain absorption values are off. I'm a batch sparger, and I constantly need to modify the sparge value.

The grain absorption values in Beersmith are fine. It sounds to me like you have a loss in your system somewhere that is not accounted for in your Beersmith equipment profile (e.g. lauter tun dead space).
 
You can't. If you hold your liquor to grist ratio constant (e.g., 1.25 quarts water per lb of grain), then the higher the OG you are targetting, the lower the ratio of your sparge water. The only way you can keep it the same is to collect more runnings and boil longer to evaporate it off to compensate.

This is exactly how the software should behave, unless I do not understand your problem correctly.

...by increasing the grain bill I should be increasing the gravity if I keep the ratio's the same....
 
The grain absorption values in Beersmith are fine. It sounds to me like you have a loss in your system somewhere that is not accounted for in your Beersmith equipment profile (e.g. lauter tun dead space).

I have the mash/lauter tun deadspace set to .5 gallon.
 
The grain absorption values in Beersmith are fine. It sounds to me like you have a loss in your system somewhere that is not accounted for in your Beersmith equipment profile (e.g. lauter tun dead space).

I'll have to measure it again, but I'm pretty sure it's around 1 quart. Maybe I'm missing something here.
 
...by increasing the grain bill I should be increasing the gravity if I keep the ratio's the same....
No, you are forgetting that you have to add grain to increase the gravity. If your mash water is set to be proportional to the grain (e.g., 1.25 qts/lb) then you are going to have a greater volume of first runnings from the mash, and will require less sparge water to reach your target pre-boil volume.
 
If the grain absorption ratio was the issue, then it would not always be out .75 gals. It would vary depending on the size of the grainbill. Your shortcoming appears to be systematic (i.e. always .75 gals) which makes me suspect a loss to the brewing system.
 
No, you are forgetting that you have to add grain to increase the gravity. If your mash water is set to be proportional to the grain (e.g., 1.25 qts/lb) then you are going to have a greater volume of first runnings from the mash, and will require less sparge water to reach your target pre-boil volume.

I'm a beersmith convert, so thanks for bearing with me.

I think I figured it out today on a single batch. I think I have to basically increase my lauter tun deadspace from .5 gallon to 2.5 gallons for Beersmith to come out with the correct numbers. I like to get my sparge volume as half of my pre boil size. For a 5 gallon batch my preboil volume is 7 gallons.

I'm not losing 2.5 gallons to my 48 quart cooler but whatever it takes to get Beersmith to come out with the correct numbers...
 
You can play with boil off rate too. Dialing in my equipment and knowing my dead space as well as boil off rate was a long process for me to understand.
 
You can play with boil off rate too. Dialing in my equipment and knowing my dead space as well as boil off rate was a long process for me to understand.


Yep, still dialing in my equipment for Beersmith.
I'm still playing with the boil off as well. My boil off is different based on the wind outside...
 
I'm a beersmith convert, so thanks for bearing with me.

I think I figured it out today on a single batch. I think I have to basically increase my lauter tun deadspace from .5 gallon to 2.5 gallons for Beersmith to come out with the correct numbers. I like to get my sparge volume as half of my pre boil size. For a 5 gallon batch my preboil volume is 7 gallons.

I'm not losing 2.5 gallons to my 48 quart cooler but whatever it takes to get Beersmith to come out with the correct numbers...

This post by me is totally foobar - so fogetaboutit.
I calculated my deadspace today and it's .5 gallon (like I originally had it).
I'm going back to playing with my my mash profile to get the volumes I want.
I've got another post with my Beersmith volume but I wanted to update this one in case someone was reading it.
JD
 
The problem here is the way that Beersmith shows the mash profile. It gives you a mash out that takes the water:grain to 2.0. This does not give you enough liquid to finish the batch. But if you print out the brew sheet it shows you in the last area of the page that you need to add "insert your equipment size difference here. Mine is usually 1-1.5 gallons" as a batch sparge. That is silly to do 1 one gallon sparge. So adjusting the mash equations is much more simple. 2.0 in sparge is great. but not worth the effort if you are just talking a couple percent efficiency.
 
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