Colorado Beer Law

If anyone lives in Colorado and knows good resources on the new proposal in CO beer law, could you please post them?

I know they want full strength beer in grocery and convenience stores, but I also heard that there was a new part that talks about changing distribution as well, which is WAY scarier to me. Can anyone verify the distribution thing?

I have not heard much about it. I know we just started selling beer on Sundays over the summer. Liquor stores can now be open on Sundays. I am interested in hearing about these changes.

Selling full strength beer in grocery stores might cut in on the liquor stores business. I am sure there are people not so happy about that. I wonder if any of this is coming from the New Belgium-Coors issue. There was a huge issue settled recently over distribution of New Belgium products. Their distribution is now being done by a subsidiary(I think) of coors in the state of colorado.

Keep us posted

Brewmoor said:

I have not heard much about it. I know we just started selling beer on Sundays over the summer. Liquor stores can now be open on Sundays. I am interested in hearing about these changes.

Selling full strength beer in grocery stores might cut in on the liquor stores business. I am sure there are people not so happy about that. I wonder if any of this is coming from the New Belgium-Coors issue. There was a huge issue settled recently over distribution of New Belgium products. Their distribution is now being done by a subsidiary(I think) of coors in the state of colorado.

Keep us posted

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From what I understand, distribution laws in CO are incredibly lenient as compared to most other states. Someone wants this changed, so it will strictly follow the miserable 3 tier system. Microbreweries aren't happy about this. To me, it seems that smaller microbreweries in CO would disappear overnight if they had to compete with getting onto a A-B, Coors, or Miller truck. I'm sure larger ones could stick it out, but the up-and-comers probably couldn't, and new breweries probably wouldn't show up as often...

Currently convenience stores are trying to get the legislature to change to law allowing them to sell full strength beer instead of just 3.2. They claim since the law was changed to let liquor stores remain open on Sunday that no one buys beer from the convenience stores anymore. Liquor stores are solidly against this change. Grocery stores are not involved in this current push to have the law changed.

I have not heard anything about the distribution laws being changed. I hope the remain as they are.

I can see that. The only time I have ever gotten beer at the grocery store or convenience store was because it was a Sunday. I too hope the distribution laws don't change. Colorado is a great beer state with tons of variety because of how it is controlled. I hope we can remain that way.

Brewmoor said:

I can see that. The only time I have ever gotten beer at the grocery store or convenience store was because it was a Sunday. I too hope the distribution laws don't change. Colorado is a great beer state with tons of variety because of how it is controlled. I hope we can remain that way.

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I'm confused. You want regulations against any stores other than liqour stores selling higher ABV beers?

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

I'm confused. You want regulations against any stores other than liqour stores selling higher ABV beers?

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Yes. There are no chain liquor stores allowed in Colordado. They are all independent. That makes it much easier for a small up and coming brewery to negociate with stores to get their product on the shelf. If it goes through grocery stores, 7-11 chains, etc., then it is harder for the little guys to start.

RDWHAHB said:

Yes. There are no chain liquor stores allowed in Colordado. They are all independent. That makes it much easier for a small up and coming brewery to negociate with stores to get their product on the shelf. If it goes through grocery stores, 7-11 chains, etc., then it is harder for the little guys to start.

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OK Got it. Thanks!

Welcome to Utah.

I still haven't figured out why beer consumers would be against convenience stores carrying higher abv. I could see why a liquor store might be concerned, but they would just have to adapt like the rest of the country. The convenience stores aren't going to carry a huge selection anyway. I am still going to be hitting up the liquor store for the beer I want. In fact, they are going to have to step up their selection in order to draw business. I guess I could see them raising their prices, but not enough to drive me away. The big difference I see is that 7-11 is going to sell New Belgium products now. How is that not good for Colorado?

PatientZero said:

From what I understand, distribution laws in CO are incredibly lenient as compared to most other states. Someone wants this changed, so it will strictly follow the miserable 3 tier system. Microbreweries aren't happy about this. To me, it seems that smaller microbreweries in CO would disappear overnight if they had to compete with getting onto a A-B, Coors, or Miller truck. I'm sure larger ones could stick it out, but the up-and-comers probably couldn't, and new breweries probably wouldn't show up as often...

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Wow, what a mess!
Who is the idiot that created the 3 tier system in the first place since it only really serves the big corpora--, oops, never mind

The following is a link is for the CO General assembly. click on "search for a bill" and then enter the term "beer" in the next page.

The result lists the only four bills currently under review by the CO general assembly that contain the word "beer." As far as I can tell, these are the only bills that, if passed, would regulate beer in any way that are currently being considered by the CO general assembly (State Legislature).

You'll notice that HB10-1186 involves the issue of what types of alcohol convenience stores can sell. I don't see anything about distribution bills being considered. Hope this helps.

http://www.leg.state.co.us/Clics/CLICS2010A/csl.nsf/MainBills?openFrameset

BackBayBrewing said:

The following is a link is for the CO General assembly. click on "search for a bill" and then enter the term "beer" in the next page.

The result lists the only four bills currently under review by the CO general assembly that contain the word "beer." As far as I can tell, these are the only bills that, if passed, would regulate beer in any way that are currently being considered by the CO general assembly (State Legislature).

You'll notice that HB10-1186 involves the issue of what types of alcohol convenience stores can sell. I don't see anything about distribution bills being considered. Hope this helps.

http://www.leg.state.co.us/Clics/CLICS2010A/csl.nsf/MainBills?openFrameset

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HAH! Precisely what I was looking for.

Apparently most people missed what I meant to get across in this post. I honestly don't care who is allowed to sell what. I just heard that distribution in CO would also change. So, no, New Belgium would most likely NOT be on the 7-11 shelf. If they can't distribute directly like all breweries in CO currently do, then they have to compete with all other microbreweries nationwide for 12.5% truck space on an A-B, Coors, or Miller truck and therefore making the BIG THREE slightly richer and competing against their fellow small breweries. They shouldn't NEED to compete with each other because that's not where the competition lies. They shouldn't EVER be placed on a BIG THREE truck in CO because it just isn't necessary.

Bye the way, I think I am going to go checkout some of those CO state fairs. That bill that would allow you to carry your beer anywhere in the fair ground sounds great. Out here, when I go to a fair you have to stay in the "beer garden." The beer garden is actually a cattle stable that is converted. It gets really packed in there so they aren't kidding when they say they pack them in like cattle.

Hey Back Bay, there is only one state fair and it's in Pueblo...possibly the only part of the state that I would warn people to stay away from!

I know many CO micro breweries were lobbying with the liquor stores against this bill, but I never could get a straight answer why. Convenience stores have ALWAYS been closed to micro sales because they don't produce the 3.2 beer. Only makes sense to me that this bill works in favor of the micros as convenience stores will actually be able to carry their products - and they very much want to - the margins are higher.

The one weak argument I heard was that beer is 50% of a liquor store's sales and convenience stores will obviously pull some of that business away. I heard a claim of up to 300 marginal liquor stores could close because of the inability to compete - perhaps micro breweries are worried about loosing these sales.

I believe the reason the microbreweries have lobbied with the liquor stores against this law is the fear that, if liquor stores do loose a lot of their beer sales that the amount of different varieties of beer the offer will suffer due to having to maximize their profits in this area.

I appreciate the huge amount of micro brews that are available at some of the larger liquor stores and I would hate to have less of a choice if that would really be the case.

Marsdude said:

I believe the reason the microbreweries have lobbied with the liquor stores against this law is the fear that, if liquor stores do loose a lot of their beer sales that the amount of different varieties of beer the offer will suffer due to having to maximize their profits in this area.

I appreciate the huge amount of micro brews that are available at some of the larger liquor stores and I would hate to have less of a choice if that would really be the case.

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The future buying patterns under this law are hard to predict, but I have a hard time agreeing with this one. The shift, if any, of beers sales to convenience stores would be largely BMC. Yes, that's probably a major portion of present-day liquor store sales, but they can turn this into an opportunity by reducing their BMC shelf space and carrying even more craft beers. Craft beers that have higher margins than BMC too.

jkarp said:

The future buying patterns under this law are hard to predict

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1) I think we can all agree with this.
2) I think we can all agree that current CO laws have allowed micros to flourish.

So, why change the rules? There is not much to gain. A lot could be lost.

RDWHAHB said:

1) I think we can all agree with this.
2) I think we can all agree that current CO laws have allowed micros to flourish.

So, why change the rules? There is not much to gain. A lot could be lost.

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No, we can't. What precisely is the "lot" that could be lost? To me, it looks like a lot could be gained by micros. Instant access to hundreds, if not thousands of retail locations that WANT to carry their product.

The "lot that can be lost" is the fact that current CO laws have allowed micros to flourish. The additional retail locations may or may not improve their bussiness. It's hard to predict. I happen to agree with the micros that it will not help. I could be wrong, but it is not worth the gamble.

We have it pretty good here. Don't throw a big unkown into a good thing.

If I could get micro beer at Costco or King Soopers, I wouldn't have any need to go to a liquor store. I think that's the major concern for most of the independent liquor stores. I can't remember the last time I bought something at a 7-Eleven. I couldn't believe the wine selection in the Costco's in California. I don't think they would hesitate to carry the more prominent micro beers and I'm sure that would show up in the sales at the independents.

They should do it like Indiana.

In Indiana convenience stores and groceries can carry any kind of liquor, but are prohibited from refrigerating their beer. This allows liquor stores to corner the market on cold beer. This might sound insignificant but I assure you it is not. 9 times outta 10 folks will go to an LQ for cold beer over a supermarket for warm beer (and not as good a selection).

Another curious thing I noticed from reading this thread is that CO doesn't have chain LQs. Indiana is just the opposite. I can think of maybe 3 or 4 quality LQs that are not part of a LQ chain (Payless, 21st Amendment, Crown, and United Package Liquors are the chains). And then another aspect that helps the craft and microbrews out tremendously in IN is that we our distribution is dominated by independent distributors. It can be absolute Hell for the LQ to keep track of which distributor carries which craft beer, but the positive is that no matter how obscure or rare the beer is that you are trying to get you can almost always guarantee that one of the distributors that specialize in micro and craft brews will have what you need.

In short Indiana is a fantastic place to live if you love micro and craft beers. The only drawback is no alcohol sales on Sunday. But you can DRIVE to a bar and get wasted on Sunday and then DRIVE home.

I think most people can understand that this isn't a black and white issue. If it were, nobody would be arguing right now. The fact of the matter is, though, that Safeway and 7-11 aren't going to have a huge selection because they aren't going to do this for the customer, they are going to do it to increase their profit margin. If somebody wants a BMC, then they could get it. If they want a local micro, all they have to do is say "I'm sorry sir, we don't carry that" and walk away.

And not that I fear change or anything, but what is wrong with the way the laws currently are? Liquor stores are open on Sunday, and that's cool. But it's not like that's going to put ANY grocery chain or gas station chain out of business. Liquor stores thrive because they sell alcohol, and ONLY alcohol. Grocery stores and gas stations don't thrive because of alcohol, they thrive because of GROCERIES AND GAS. Liquor and beer just doesn't NEED to be there.

Personally, I didn't really mind the fact that liquor stores were closed on Sundays, either. Granted, it was stupid and probably a holdover from some puritanical prohibition thing, but it's wasn't something to get irate about. You learn to plan ahead, and just stock up. People who enjoy beer don't need to go to buy beer on Sunday because chances are that they ALREADY have a fridge full of beer. ALCOHOLICS need to buy beer on Sunday because they're ALCOHOLICS. They ran out of their 24 case the night before and need a new 24 case to polish off tonight. This isn't a fight to put micros on store shelves. It's a fight for DRUNKS to be able to buy full strength Bud Light at a King Soopers. Doesn't anybody else see that?

And why do people think that it will be better for "one-stop shopping" or convenience? Generally speaking, if you walk into a gas station or a grocery store, there is a liquor store LESS THAN A BLOCK AWAY. And even if the law gets passed, those liquor stores (which may or may not be in business at that point) will have a better selection anyways.

AND...this isn't something that Coloradoans wants. It's something that people from other states want. And if the state isn't exactly like home, well, by golly gee, we'd better CHANGE that. Pfffft.....go back to California.

I don't understand why we can't all just agree that I'm brilliant and this is really what's going on

PhelanKA7 said:

In short Indiana is a fantastic place to live if you love micro and craft beers. The only drawback is no alcohol sales on Sunday. But you can DRIVE to a bar and get wasted on Sunday and then DRIVE home.

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Is this a joke? Why would you want to drive home?

If anybody is interested in reading what the brewers/liquor store owners and the convenience store owners are actually giving for their reasons, rather than just speculating as to what they are saying, read this: http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2010/02/08/daily46.html

Simple internet searches can provide answers, so why speculate as to what the parties' reasons are?

BackBayBrewing said:

Is this a joke? Why would you want to drive home?

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I think he is just pointing out how silly it is you can't buy booze on Sunday.

Check these out too.

http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/News/Daily/Pages/ND0209105.aspx

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/2...s-likely-to-pass-say-traditional-store-owners

From reading these articles and the text of HB10-1186 the argument for the bill is one of fairness in business generally. You can't really look at it as just an issue of what is best for the craft brew industry in CO. The CO general assembly has a duty to pass laws that promote fairness in business generally and that do not provide unfair competitive advantages to some businesses. Here, the argument was that it used to be fair to limit c-stores to 3.2 alcohol because they were allowed to sell on Sunday where Liquor stores were not, and could therefore make up their sales on Sunday that they lose the rest of the week because they don't have full strength beer. Now that Liquor stores can be open on Sunday, there is no reason anybody would ever buy 3.2 beer at a c-store if full strength is available at all the same times. The argument is that this gives liquor stores an unfair competitive advantage to the detriment of c-stores.

Like it or not, the solution that is proposed is to just let both sell full strength beer and the market will sort out who lives and who dies. That's the essence of fairness.

On the flip-side, maybe they need to repeal the law that prevents liquor stores from operating as chains, but I doubt the independent liquor stores would want that either. Maybe they should go back to not selling on Sunday. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

I find this all very interesting anyway. In CT, c-stores can't sell any kind of alcohol ever. They just operate as convenience stores that aren't very convenient if the thing you want is alcohol.

BackBayBrewing said:

Is this a joke? Why would you want to drive home?

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It was most definitely a joke. The idea of not allowing alcohol sales except for in restaurants and bars on Sundays is a joke. In fact a large majority of alcohol-related accidents and deaths in Indiana occur on Sundays as a direct result of these stupid "Blue Laws" as they call them.

RDWHAHB said:

I think he is just pointing out how silly it is you can't buy booze on Sunday.

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That makes sense... Sorry I didn't pick up on that.

BackBayBrewing said:

Simple internet searches can provide answers, so why speculate as to what the parties' reasons are?

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What exactly makes you think we didn't read the pertinent articles BackBayBrewing? In fact, what's said there are precisely the points us actual Coloradoans are discussing here.

BackBayBrewing said:

The CO general assembly has a duty to pass laws that promote fairness in business generally and that do not provide unfair competitive advantages to some businesses.

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The CO general assembly has a no such duty. They can pass laws to encourage some business, discourage others. They are not bound to make everything "fair" or "even". Personally, I want them to design laws that continue to create a vibrant set of independnt micros. Not everybody does. BMC wants them to create laws that favor BMC.

Edited: for spelling.

I agree. I hope that the micros flourish, clearly. But I do believe that the legislature is responsible for making laws that do not give some business unfair competitive advantages over other businesses.

Is there anyone here from Colorado that works in alcohol sales? Do you guys not have separate distributors for different beers? Like I said in my previous post, distributors around here have a separate fleet of vehicles for getting micro and craft beers out the door, and the BMC stuff is done through an entirely different entity. I find it hard to believe that the law being discussed in this thread will affect the availability of craft beers.

BackBayBrewing said:

Check these out too.

http://www.nacsonline.com/NACS/News/Daily/Pages/ND0209105.aspx

http://www.coloradoan.com/article/2...s-likely-to-pass-say-traditional-store-owners

From reading these articles and the text of HB10-1186 the argument for the bill is one of fairness in business generally. You can't really look at it as just an issue of what is best for the craft brew industry in CO. The CO general assembly has a duty to pass laws that promote fairness in business generally and that do not provide unfair competitive advantages to some businesses. Here, the argument was that it used to be fair to limit c-stores to 3.2 alcohol because they were allowed to sell on Sunday where Liquor stores were not, and could therefore make up their sales on Sunday that they lose the rest of the week because they don't have full strength beer. Now that Liquor stores can be open on Sunday, there is no reason anybody would ever buy 3.2 beer at a c-store if full strength is available at all the same times. The argument is that this gives liquor stores an unfair competitive advantage to the detriment of c-stores.

Like it or not, the solution that is proposed is to just let both sell full strength beer and the market will sort out who lives and who dies. That's the essence of fairness.

On the flip-side, maybe they need to repeal the law that prevents liquor stores from operating as chains, but I doubt the independent liquor stores would want that either. Maybe they should go back to not selling on Sunday. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

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The problem with this situation is that fairness is poorly perceived. What is fair? Is it fair to let grocery stores to carry the same product, or is it fair that they are able to be just a prosperous as one another?

Grocery stores sell groceries. Liquor stores sell alcohol.

If fairness means that they are allowed to carry the same product, why don't book stores jump on the bandwagon too and start selling booze. Hell, why not Sears and JC Penny. Or candy shops. How about craft stores and record shops? Wouldn't that be "fair"? I mean, if liquor stores and grocery stores and gas stations can do it, why shouldn't they do it too? It would be "unfair" to not allow them to as well.

I know it's a far stretch. But fairness is abstract, and that's the PROBLEM. Other people are trying to legislate "fairness", and they can't. It's just not possible.

I wish they never allowed Sunday sales. We wouldn't be in this mess if that were the case.

PhelanKA7 said:

Is there anyone here from Colorado that works in alcohol sales? Do you guys not have separate distributors for different beers? Like I said in my previous post, distributors around here have a separate fleet of vehicles for getting micro and craft beers out the door, and the BMC stuff is done through an entirely different entity. I find it hard to believe that the law being discussed in this thread will affect the availability of craft beers.

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From what I understand, you can distribute yourself (as long as you're legit). Which is why I started this thread...I heard from the guys at Hops and Berries in Ft. Collins (the local supply shop) that the distribution law may change as well. Perhaps they were ill informed and don't know what they're talking about. I haven't found any such proof that this is the case.

PatientZero said:

The problem with this situation is that fairness is poorly perceived. What is fair? Is it fair to let grocery stores to carry the same product, or is it fair that they are able to be just a prosperous as one another?

Grocery stores sell groceries. Liquor stores sell alcohol.

If fairness means that they are allowed to carry the same product, why don't book stores jump on the bandwagon too and start selling booze. Hell, why not Sears and JC Penny. Or candy shops. How about craft stores and record shops? Wouldn't that be "fair"? I mean, if liquor stores and grocery stores and gas stations can do it, why shouldn't they do it too? It would be "unfair" to not allow them to as well.

I know it's a far stretch. But fairness is abstract, and that's the PROBLEM. Other people are trying to legislate "fairness", and they can't. It's just not possible.

I wish they never allowed Sunday sales. We wouldn't be in this mess if that were the case.

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Agreed 100%.

PatientZero said:

From what I understand, you can distribute yourself (as long as you're legit). Which is why I started this thread...I heard from the guys at Hops and Berries in Ft. Collins (the local supply shop) that the distribution law may change as well. Perhaps they were ill informed and don't know what they're talking about. I haven't found any such proof that this is the case.

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In that case what the small breweries need to do is get together and form their own distribution company or buy in with the current distribution companies and fund their own supply chain. Obviously a daunting task, but I think the smaller guys after discussing it would all probably see the benefit of banding together as far as distribution is concerned.

I'm sure the suits in your statehouse would probably write up some sort of language that prohibits this though. Gotta love politicians, right?

jkarp said:

What exactly makes you think we didn't read the pertinent articles BackBayBrewing? In fact, what's said there are precisely the points us actual Coloradoans are discussing here.

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I wasn't trying to offend anybody... it was just a little good natured ribbing. I can see why that didn't come across well in the post, so please don't take offense.

Looks like it did not get passed

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20100224/NEWS/100229679/1078&parentprofile=1062