What's in your Strong Scottish Ale?

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Glibbidy

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I truly love the taste of Old Chub by Oskar Blues. It's one of my favorite beers. I'm really not a malt fanatic, but this beer is so choice.

I have decided to build a recipe and brew something like Old Chub. While in the process of doing my research for a grain bill I discovered that they use some Weyermann Smoked Malt in the grist, as well as crystal, and chocolate malt.
Since they use European malt for their other beers, I suspect the base malt is MO.
I'm thinking adding some Munich and a little bit of wheat to this as well to round it out. Possibly 1-3% roasted barley as well for kicks.

Hops, I'll likely go with a combo of EKG, Fuggles with a little NB.

Looks like WLP028 is the key in bringing out some earthy notes, as well as the peaty flavor. I'll probably look to ferment this on the lower side, say around 64f. Subsequently, I'll probably cold condition this as well.

What has worked in brewing your Strong Scottish Ale?
 
I just learned that Old Chub is making appearances in Texas. I've only had a couple samples of it before, so I am happy to get to go through a whole one on my own. That just might get me worked up enough to make something like it.


TL
 
Here's my Snow Cow Wee Heavy.
Pretty close to Skullsplitter

Amount Item Type % or IBU
16.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 91.43 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.29 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.86 %
0.25 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.43 %
2.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (120 min) Hops 32.2 IBU
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.089 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.028 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.026 SG
120 min boil
 
Thanks for the insight. The gravity on Jamil's 80 is to low for me. I really want to go with a Strong Scottish Ales.

Here is what I have come up with so far for the Grist.
Roasted Barley 1.50%
Chocolate Malt 1.50%
Munich Malt 10.00%
Biscuit 3.00%
Weyerman Smoked Malt 5.00%
Crystal Malt 7.00%
Marris Otter Pale Malt 71.00%

I'm on the fence between using the Weyerman smoked malt and Simpsons Peated Malt. Oskar Blues uses the Weyerman, so I'm stearing that way.
What do you think of this grist composition?
 
I'm thinking one kettle addition for a total of 30 IBU's.
EKG for 22 IBU's
Northern Brewer for 8 IBU's

Maybe bump back the Smoked Malt 4% and up the Chocolate to 2.5%
 
Personally I would drop the smoked malt. I am in the camp that believes smoked malt is not traditional/authentic in wee heavies or Scottish schilling ales. Sure, beers in Scotland would have had a smoky character at one time due to the limitations of malting with fuel available. However that does not mean it was a desired flavor component. Likewise, beers from all traditions would have had a smoky character for that matter. I think the idea of using smoked malts in Scottish ales comes from the association with Scotch Whiskey. I tend to not buy commercial examples that mention smokiness in their description. Just biased I guess. ;)

I am a big fan of the style and I like mine malty sweet. Anyway, end my personal rant/opinion :D

Here is my take on the style, note the non-traditiona/non-authentic ingredients and add a grain of salt to my above rant ;)

MO 72.3%
Munich malt 14.5%
Crystal 60 2.4%
Biscuit malt 2.4%
Roasted Barley 0.6%
Grade B Maple Syrup 7.9%

Hops

EKG 5.5%AA 28g @60 minutes
EKG 5.5%AA 14g @ 30 minutes

Single Step infusion 60 minutes @ 158F (I said I Like malty didn't I?)
Boil 90 minutes

WYEAST 1728 Scottish with big starter. Ferment nice and cool @ 62F for 3 weeks and then cold condition about 3 months in the keg or longer.
 
+1. Ixnay on the smoked malt. IMO, use of smoked or peated malt in modern renditions of Scotch ale comes entirely from some well-meaning sod overthinking the recipe and equating Scotch ale with Scotch whiskey. While I love a peaty Scotch whiskey, I can't abode smoke in my malty-sweet Scotch ale.

Anyone interested in the style should read Noonan's Scotch Ale before undertaking a brew. It'll prevent a lot of painful reinventing of wheels. He not only gives the underlying history of the style (and substyles), he gives step-by-step, easy to understand methodology toward brewing a successful example of the category.

Cheers,

Bob
 
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Have you thought of the creamy mouthfeel old chub has? I don't know much about grains, but the mouthfeel of old chub is very enjoyable and adds to the brew.
 
Here's what my first rendition looks like. I failed to do the long boil to caramelize it though. I'll let you know next month how it is when I tap it at a halloween party. My next rendition will be to go traditional. Only pale malt and roast barley with a long boil. I'm going to give a shot at a partigyle of the wee heavy and a 40/- or 60/-, depending on the gravity of the second runnings




Oggs
Strong Scotch Ale

Type: Partial Mash
Date: 7/4/2008
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Brewer: Hagen
Boil Size: 7.03 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (6+gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (5 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 87.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
2 lbs 14.1 oz Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 20.75 %
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 72.05 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.60 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3.60 %
2.00 oz Argentine Cascades [3.20 %] (60 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
5.50 gal Local Water Water
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #SA-05) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.086 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.086 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.023 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.05 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.26 %
Bitterness: 19.4 IBU Calories: 399 cal/pint
Est Color: 22.3 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 11.00 lb
Sparge Water: 5.17 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 13.75 qt of water at 175.9 F 156.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.0
Pressure/Weight: 9.0 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F Age for: 56.0 days
Storage Temperature: 45.0 F
 
Personally I would drop the smoked malt. I am in the camp that believes smoked malt is not traditional/authentic in wee heavies or Scottish schilling ales. Sure, beers in Scotland would have had a smoky character at one time due to the limitations of malting with fuel available. However that does not mean it was a desired flavor component. Likewise, beers from all traditions would have had a smoky character for that matter. I think the idea of using smoked malts in Scottish ales comes from the association with Scotch Whiskey. I tend to not buy commercial examples that mention smokiness in their description. Just biased I guess. ;)

I am a big fan of the style and I like mine malty sweet. Anyway, end my personal rant/opinion :D

Here is my take on the style, note the non-traditiona/non-authentic ingredients and add a grain of salt to my above rant ;)

MO 72.3%
Munich malt 14.5%
Crystal 60 2.4%
Biscuit malt 2.4%
Roasted Barley 0.6%
Grade B Maple Syrup 7.9%

Hops

EKG 5.5%AA 28g @60 minutes
EKG 5.5%AA 14g @ 30 minutes

Single Step infusion 60 minutes @ 158F (I said I Like malty didn't I?)
Boil 90 minutes

WYEAST 1728 Scottish with big starter. Ferment nice and cool @ 62F for 3 weeks and then cold condition about 3 months in the keg or longer.

I like this one - the maple syrup is interesting. Have you made this before? I typically don't like adding sugar/molasses/etc. in fear of thinning the beer out but this has me curious. I get the darker sweetness from using Special B or Crystal 120L in a pinch.

Hops, mash schedule, ferm temp - this looks good all the way around (and +100 on dropping the peated malt).
 
I like this one - the maple syrup is interesting. Have you made this before? I typically don't like adding sugar/molasses/etc. in fear of thinning the beer out but this has me curious.

Aye laddy. I've made this a'fore. Just had a bottle of last years batch today.
Och. okay sorry.

Simple sugars are good sometimes in BIG malty beers to keep them from being too cloying sweet while still being big. I like malty sweet as I said, but there is a point that there is too much sweetness in anything.
 
Simple sugars are good sometimes in BIG malty beers to keep them from being too cloying sweet while still being big. I like malty sweet as I said, but there is a point that there is too much sweetness in anything.

Ah, I get it. I sometimes see some people using some dark Crystal instead and mashing at 155F instead for the Scotch (but still 158F for an 80/- and down).[/I]
 
While I do understand that the smoked/Rauch malt are not typically used with thi style, I am going to stick with the smoked malt on this one since Oskar Blues uses it in the Old Chub. I'm not a fan of Scotch ales in general, but I do enjoy old Chub. My goal is to make something like Old Chub.
 
I'm one of the on-the-fence ones in re: to smoked malt. In this particular example (cloning Old Chub) I'm for it. I think that smoked (not peated) malt is delicious and a nice addition to a Scotch style ale that isn't necessarily TO style.

In a textbook BJCP example, then I'm in the other no-smoke yeast-does-it camp. :)
WLP028 is dreamy, especially when fermented cool. (I fermented at well over 68*F when I used it, and was rewarded with a clove kick to the teeth.)
 
WLP028 is dreamy, especially when fermented cool. (I fermented at well over 68*F when I used it, and was rewarded with a clove kick to the teeth.)
I'm using this yeast for the first time for my Chub clone. I have been reading that it doesn't do well belwo 62f unless you are in the middle of high krausen.
How cool do you start your fermentation when using this yeast? I'm thinking about starting it 64-66f and then dropping it to 58-60f.
 
Don't know what is "proper" for this yeast (as I said, I abused it last time) but I think that your plan of starting around 64*, and dropping it towards the end of the ferment, is a pretty solid idea.
 
Bump. What happened with this recipe? Did you ever brew it or finalize it? I want to brew something like Old Chub too, but I have no recipe...
 
Here's the grist:
Roasted Barley 2.00%
Chocolate Malt 2.50%
Munich Malt 15.00%
Biscuit 14.40 3.00%
Weyerman Smoked Malt 2.00%
Crystal Malt 8.00%
Canadian Malting 2 Row 41.00%
Marris Otter Pale Malt 26.50%

Brewed on 12/6/08.
 
The one thing that is NEVER in my scotish ales are smoked and peated malt. Never. That is an american take on the style. "Hey it's in scotch, must go in their beer to."
 
The one thing that is NEVER in my scotish ales are smoked and peated malt. Never. That is an american take on the style. "Hey it's in scotch, must go in their beer to."

Thanks for sharing what ISN'T in you Strong Scottish Ale. What I was really looking for was, what IS in your Strong Scottish Ale. I'm well aware of the style, and what should go in it. I also understand that peaty, earthy and smoky character comes from the traditional yeast and from the local malt and water.

Perhaps you can provide some constructive criticism and share what is in you Strong Scottish Ale? What maltser are you using? What kind of water profile did you use? How about your yeast? Did you cold condition it of an extended period of time?;)
 
here's my scotch ale. It'd probably be in the wee heavy category.

8lbs MO
2.25lbs Melanoidin Malt
1.25lbs Munich
.25lb Chocolate Malt
.125lb Carafa III
1oz Centenial @ 9% 60mins
Yeast: wyeast 1968

Single infusion mashed at 154 for 1 hour. Mash out and sparge at 170.
 
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