s-05 vs Notty

In my short time I've only brewed with Nottingham. The reason for this is because it was what was called for in my first two recipes and then the last couple of batches it is what my LHBS carries.

Looking through these pages I see a lot of folks use Safale-05, especially for Pale Ales and IPAs, which is mostly what i brew. Now i've ordered some S-05 online.

I'm just wondering what the difference between the two will be? Like, if i brew a pretty standard AIPA recipe would the beer be noticeable different if I used S-05 instead of Notty?

Yes, the safe ale is american ale yeast, nottingham is english ale yeast and will have more english type esters. Safe ale 05 will be more clean fermentation, and I would suspect would ferment a little dryer also.

Is 05 the pink package? I think it is. I seem to like it better at times than notty. My Ipa i made a ten gallon batch-did 5and5 notty and safale and the pink stuff seemed to finish a little cleaner. They are both great dry yeast in my opinion. you could always try innoculating 2.5 gal each splitting the yeast in half and trying both. PEPSI CHALLENGE BRO!(assuming you do 5 gal batches)

TacoGuthrie said:

In my short time I've only brewed with Nottingham. The reason for this is because it was what was called for in my first two recipes and then the last couple of batches it is what my LHBS carries.

Looking through these pages I see a lot of folks use Safale-05, especially for Pale Ales and IPAs, which is mostly what i brew. Now i've ordered some S-05 online.

I'm just wondering what the difference between the two will be? Like, if i brew a pretty standard AIPA recipe would the beer be noticeable different if I used S-05 instead of Notty?

Click to expand...

Yes, it would. Though notty's pretty dry for an English yeast. But for an AIPA, S-05 would be better; for a traditional IPA or a modern wimpy British IPA, S04 or notty or Wyeast 1028 or another British yeast would be better, depending on what flavor you're going for.

The yeast you use and the temperature that you ferment at can potentially impact your beer's flavor just as much as the grains or hops you choose.

NikolausXX said:

Yes, the safe ale is american ale yeast, nottingham is english ale yeast and will have more english type esters. Safe ale 05 will be more clean fermentation, and I would suspect would ferment a little dryer also.

Click to expand...

the way i understand it English type esters are kind of fruity?

Also I've seen the term 'clean fermentation' a few times but don't quite understand it. In the end, does it make the beer taste or look different?

clean fermentation... let me try my hand at this. Have you ever had a hef that tasted real strong of banana, clove etc? well that would be a example not so much clean fermentation. Where as a pyramid hef is cleaner. Clean to me means free of any strong "off" flavors. Maybe also "mainstream" likes a clean fermentation. Feel free to correct me HBT nuts!!!

I brewed a few batches with Notty before it became hard to find last year - switched to Safale US-05 and have been very happy with the results. Not a very big difference, but I've mostly stayed with the 05 even though Notty is plentiful again.

Clean pretty much means that the yeast is not contributing much flavor at all to the beer - Notty is pretty clean too but US-05 fermented in the low to mid 60s is about as clean and neutral as it gets IMO. Great for lighter American styles where you want to taste only the malt and hops themselves.

Not all yeast flavors are "off" flavors...in fact most strains of yeast are cultured to produce certain esters for certain styles. In isac777's hefeweizen example, those banana and clove flavors are very desirable if you're following the German style (which I much prefer over the rather plain tasting American hefeweizen). But in general, Americans tend to prefer the cleaner, more neutral taste.

Though notty is English, it won't have those typical esters. For that try safale 04 or Windsor. Notty and 05 are basically interchangeable in my recipes. I need to account for notty's near 90% attenuation though. It finishes very dry. I get about 80% attenuation with 05. Flavor, to me, is basically the same.

NikolausXX said:

Yes, the safe ale is american ale yeast, nottingham is english ale yeast and will have more english type esters. Safe ale 05 will be more clean fermentation, and I would suspect would ferment a little dryer also.

Click to expand...

In my testing with both Nottingham and 05, I have found the oppisite results. In seveal side by side tests, the Nottinham fermented drier each time. Additionally, despite being an "English" yeast, it is very neutral.
I feel very comfortable using Nottingham whenever a dry, neutral flavor is desired.

TacoGuthrie said:

In my short time I've only brewed with Nottingham. The reason for this is because it was what was called for in my first two recipes and then the last couple of batches it is what my LHBS carries.

Looking through these pages I see a lot of folks use Safale-05, especially for Pale Ales and IPAs, which is mostly what i brew. Now i've ordered some S-05 online.

I'm just wondering what the difference between the two will be? Like, if i brew a pretty standard AIPA recipe would the beer be noticeable different if I used S-05 instead of Notty?

Click to expand...

The difference will be very little. If you are trying to make the beer drier, continue to use Nottinham. If you want to make an Imperial IPA, the Nottinham cannot be beat in it's ability to ferment big beers out nice and dry. Use the yeast calculator here to get proper pitching rates: Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

On my similar beers that I've done with both yeasts, I've found Nottingham to finish a bit lower too.

I know it goes against the majority opinion on this site but I just don't like the flavor of Nottingham and I find it much less neutral than US05. I usually can pick out Nottingham in other folks homebrews in an instant.

I find Notty to be just slightly fruity...which is an advantage in your English beers. It also seems to have a much more balanced malt/hop balance than US-05. I am not a fan of the slightly tart aftertaste it leaves, but that isn't very strong and you can still make a nice NE Brown with it. In fact I have won an award with Notty in my NE Brown...can't think of another style I would use it in though.

US-05 leaves much less malt character around and is very hop forward. This is the only dry yeast that I think is just as good as its liquid counterpart. It probably helps that it's lack of "yeast character" is this strains hallmark...but still, it's a pretty darn good dry yeast.

I have heard that the Chico strain is a mutation of the Nottingham strain...confirm/deny?

I thought Chico was basically the same thing as US-05.

I've herd Nottingham and US-05 are both decedents of the same strain. I've used Nottingham and US-05 on the same batch before and US-05 tasted a little more hop forward even though Nottingham finished a point lower.

Recently, I made two almost identical batches of cream ale, one with Notty, one with US-05. They both were fermented at cool temps, about 62*F.

The Notty batch wound up with a lot of fusels. The US-05 batch did not.

Other than the yeast, I don't see what could have caused the difference.

I'm another one who finds them to be nearly interchangable, though Notty finishes lower/drier. I have also noticed very little in the way of fruity esthers, though some have reported them if the beer is fermented above 70F.

Buford said:

I thought Chico was basically the same thing as US-05.

Click to expand...

It is when I said Chico I was referring to the Sierra Nevada strain which is labelled at US-05, WLP001 and 1056.

In my side by sides of 10g's divided into two 5g's, both finished within FG.001, twice, but the S-05 is way cleaner. The Notty batches have convinced me to not use Notty again.

The Notty gives a flavor I find I don't like-thanks, Denny, for teaching, me that.

Also the S-05 was far more aggressive in the first few days, vs. the Notty that seemed to lag behind in activity.

Tonedef131 said:

I have heard that the Chico strain is a mutation of the Nottingham strain...confirm/deny?

Click to expand...

TastyBrew.com | Forum | God, I love US56!

Ballantine Brewery used Nottingham in their ales. When the brewery was going under back in '78, Ken Grossman went and visited with the master brewer and it is purported that he brought back the yeast to his new fledgling brewery(Sierra Nevada Brewing Company) and from there it mutated to what we know now as California Ale yeast.

Click to expand...

mutation

Click to expand...

I so hate that line of crap. It's like calling us mutants of our grand parents. Quite asinine really. Yeast is yeast, always will be. Always has been. Selective propagation is more like it and sounds intelligent too.

Conroe said:

It's like calling us mutants of our grand parents.

Click to expand...

Not at all, yeast reproduce by budding off daughter cells that are exact replicates of themselves. So when a different cell is made it is in fact a mutation, and when that one is propagated you have yourself a slightly different strain of yeast.

It would be like if your grandparents normally just made clones of themselves but then you popped out.

I just did a 10 gallon batch of dry stout running these two yeasts in separate carboys. The US-05 worked a little faster and finished at 1.010 while the Nottingham was slower and finished at 1.009. By slower I mean it took 7 days to completely finish rather than 5. The flavors match up almost exactly. I think you would be hard pressed to pick which is which.

bbrim said:

I just did a 10 gallon batch of dry stout running these two yeasts in separate carboys. The US-05 worked a little faster and finished at 1.010 while the Nottingham was slower and finished at 1.009. By slower I mean it took 7 days to completely finish rather than 5. The flavors match up almost exactly. I think you would be hard pressed to pick which is which.

Click to expand...

I have done almost the same side by side comparison, but with an IPA. I compared Nottingham to Safale 05, White Labs and Wyeast California Ale Yeasts. The wort was split into four-three gallon batches and given the appropriate amounts of yeast. When done, each batch was kegged individually and evaluated.
I sampled the beer myself and had two local professional brewers taste the beer. The Nottingham yeast finished the beer a couple of points lower and was preferred by both myself and the pro brewers because the beer finished drier. They all had slightly different flavors. However, none of the samples were objectionable in any way.
I concluded in this comparison that when I brew an IPA and would like to have the beer dry, Nottingham is my preferred yeast. I like it's ability to dry the beer and it's neutral flavor. I also very much like the convenience of not needing to make a starter and low cost.
While it may not be appropriate for all styles of beer, for most of the beers that I make, it works well.

my last 3 brews have been using Notty. The fermentation goes just fine but like some of you said I'm finding it leaves this tart taste to it. At first I thought it was just the hops I've been using but after reading this thread I'm convinced it was the Notty.

I don't like that fruity tart flavour.... Maybe in an IPA with lots of Cascade but I just used it in a German Pils and I don't think it fits at all.

does s-05 leave any type of flavour like that?

I use US05 for all my brews (IPAs) but have had some incidents of esters, not related to high ferm temps. Also check out this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/strong-esters-us-05-wtf-157065/

I will continue to use US05, because I'm not interested in the cost or hassle of
liquid yeast, but just wanted to point out some apparent issues with its 'cleanliness'.

Also check out this thread regarding high attenuation
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/safale-us-05-attenuation-52146/

I typically get mid-80's attenuation.

I get tart from 05 as well. The second generation is better. I don't wash. I dump in a jar and pitch one cup within a week or two. The 5th generation is as good at the second. The second generation is better with Nottingham too. 05 favors hops, Nottingham favors malt.