Do you whirlpool hot?

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strat_thru_marshall

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My setup includes a 50ft 1/2" immersion chiller with the whirlpool arm. It does a good job, but I have a feeling that the whirlpool would work MUCH better if there wasn't a huge copper coil in the kettle. Also, it can be difficult to get to lager temps without 3 or more bags of ice, and if you under shoot the amount of ice you CANT get there.

I know most big brewers whirlpool hot, is there any negative side effects to doing this on a homebrew scale? I have a feeling I'll get much better trub & hop separation before sending it to the fermenter.

I am thinking of installing a dedicated whirlpool return and using a plate chiller after a 20 minute hot whirlpool. Any advice for or against? Also, whats the best way to get wort cooled to 45F with a plate chiller? Is it 3+ bags of ice again? I guess it would have to be if groundwater was above target temp.
 
I whirlpool hot, mainly because it's how I sanitize my pump/tubing. I start the whirlpool when I put my chiller into the pot at 15 minutes. I have a whirlpool attachment from Bargain Fittings, and it works great with my immersion chiller. Can't see anything negative about doing it hot, because like you said...the commercial guys do it. Hot side aeration is a thing/fear of the past IMHO. My well water is in the low 50s to high 40s almost year round, so I can't help you there.
 
before i had a cfc i tried once or twice whirl pooling in keggle and knockout to a 9g italian kettle where i chilled it with an immersion chiller. worked pretty good for an ipa with a lot of hops, but was just more of a hassle.
 
Bargain Fittings Whirlpool Fitting
whirlpool3-500x500.jpg

Here is an older picture of the Bargain Fittings Whirlpool Fitting installed in my keggle.

NewToys5.JPG


I have since swapped the whirlpool fitting and the output around so the whirlpool has about 3/4 of the kettle to move about it before it hits the outlet.

I whirlpool hot. I add hops into the whirlpool for additional aroma. I usually whirlpool for 10 minutes and then rest the beer for 10 minutes. I usually get a very tight cone of hop material and trub. From the kettle the wort goes through my CFC chiller. I do use a pump for all this.

Sometime in the next few brews, I may try to run the wort through the CFC while whirlpooling. I guess I'll see if leaving cold break in the kettle is worth it.
 
thanks guys. those of you using the bargain fittings whirlpooler, how high is it set in your kettle? on the bottom, middle, or near the wort surface? It's hard to tell from the angle of your picture Wayne. thanks.
 
In my case, it is located very close to the bottom of the sidewall. I have no problem getting a good whirlpool going with either 5 or 10 gallon batches.
 
how good would you guys say your hop separation is when using, say, 6 or more oz of pellets in a 5 gallon batch? On beers with less than 4 oz of pellets I get a decent cone with my whirlpool/immersion chiller, but on anything with more hops than that the cone is weak no matter how long i run the whirlpool and lots of hop sludge gets into the fermenter.

I think that with a dedicated whirlpool return and no massive IC in the kettle I could achieve a much better cone with large amounts of hops, just want to be sure before I throw down the dough on a therminator and drill a hole in my kettle.

I could live with cold break in the fermenter if I had little to no hops/hot break I think.
 
i have a dedicated "circuit" on my rig just for whirlpooling. One circuit goes from my BK, through a 32 plate chiller and back up into the BK. It doesn't whirlpool that strongly because of the lost momentum through the plate chiller.

So yes, I am "hot whirlpooling" and then, once chilled, I by-pass the plate chiller and go straight from the BK, through a pump and back into the BK (the dedicated whirlpooling circuit) and that whirlpool gets going really strong.

I always use hop bags in my boil so it doesn't matter how much pellets/whole hops I use. The hop bag cleans up a ton of hop dregs to begine with and then with the strength of the whirlpool I get going, I get NOTHING but crystal clear wort into the fermenter.
 
How long do you let the wort settle for after whirlpool?

It will help to allow at least 10 minutes settling time after you are done whirlpooling.

I will agree that you should get better compaction without the IC disturbing the flow. I would worry about clogging a plate heat exchanger at the start of the whirlpool. There would not be a problem with a CFC.

With up to a pound of hops used in some of my IPAs, some trub material will get passed into the fermenter. The outlet from the kettle could be raised and you could increase the volume that you are brewing to compensate for the trub left behind.

My current experiment is to try a suspended hop bag in the kettle. It worked fine my last brew to limit the amount of trub going to the fermenter. Lots of hot break stayed in the kettle. The beer is still fermenting so I cannot comment on any loss of hop bitterness or flavor using the bag.
 
Like I was just posting... I have used a hop bag for while and I don't notice any loss in hop utilization. I know a lot of guys that use them.

... and to your point... the plate chiller is one of the reasons I use the hop bag. Many moons ago I got a whole-hop stuck in the inlet of my plate chiller.

that sucked.

And don't think you were asking me but I'll answer anyway... cause that's how I roll... but I don't let it rest at all after whirlpooling. I run off my wort while it is still spinning. I find it leaves everything in the center cone a lot neater.
 
Cape,

My questions were directed to the OP. You just snuck in your post while I was hunt and pecking away.

I have read many different opinions about the hop bag changing hop utilization. The only way for me to know for sure is to try it myself. I thank you for another data point.

For my system, I find I get a tighter cone with a rest. That's great you can knock out right away. More time to relax after a brewday.
 
One more minor point on the hop bag.... I use huge ones. I have 45 gal BK and use hop bags that will reach from one side of the pot to the other. I simply clamp the bag open, sitting in the pot so I have a fairly large surface area in the bag floating along at the top of the boil. I prefer it that way so I can do multiple additions easily. I simply dump them in.

I'm not packing hops into small bags and tossing them in. I would think you would lose a little ultization under that scenario.
 
I think that with a dedicated whirlpool return and no massive IC in the kettle I could achieve a much better cone with large amounts of hops, just want to be sure before I throw down the dough on a therminator and drill a hole in my kettle.

I could live with cold break in the fermenter if I had little to no hops/hot break I think.

I would highly recommend a hop bag of some sort with any plate chiller. I use the 5-gallon paint strainer bags. Even when using one, I whirlpool and get a considerable amount of debris cone in the middle of the keggle. I was able to drill the hole for the return through the upper skirt of the keggle. It's not as pretty as a stainless return, but it gets the job done.

SANY0227.JPG
 
I have an irrational fear of boiling a nylon bag for 90 minutes in my beer. that being said it seems that a 10 minute hot whirlpool with a 10 minute rest, run through a CFC will give me results closest to what I'm looking for. Wayne, I have read that holding a pilsner based wort hot after the boil can increase DMS, any experience with this?
 
I used the 5 gallon nylon paint strainer bag in my last brew, which was loosely based on Pliny with over 8 oz of hops for 5 gallons for 90 min. I did not detect any flavor problems with the use of nylon in the sample I pulled going into the fermenter. The bag did not show any melting.

I have made numerous lagers and even a few Pilseners over the years. All were boiled for 90 min, whirlpooled and rested before running through a heat exchanger. This was done in breweries up to 15 bbl in brewlength. Knockout could take up to 30 minutes to transfer that volume. I have yet to detect any DMS from that method.

I have made some very nice beers on my homebrew scale system using Pils malt. Again, no DMS with a 90 min boil, whirlpool, rest and knockout through the CFC.
 
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