Alcohol purchase waiver?

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ArtVandelay

ArtVandelay

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Anyone ever have to sign one of these? Really weird situation happened to me.

To start off, I'm 26 and was dressed in business attire and was shopping at Sendiks in an affluent neighborhood.

I look at sendiks beer selection as always because it's pretty decent and see a bottle of new Belgium Le Terroir dry hopped sour at $8 a bomber. I decide to purchse since I've never had this before. I walk to the register of an approximately 60 yr old lady. I put down my one bottle of beer, paper plates, and lemon pudding ready to pay. Lady asks for some ID which happens from time to time, no big deal.

Then the weird part happens. She pulled put a pad of forms to fill out and takes my ID and starts filling in my info on it. I ask her what this is about and she says, " oh it is a waiver to sign that says you will not distribute this to minors because if they get hurt I could lose job.". I hesitantly say okay and mention that that is pretty unique beer to give to a minor. I didn't mention the fact that I only purchased ONE and it's $8 a bottle! She half apologetically agreed with me. I again mentioned that it was a really weird beer to give to a minor and told her that shed be more productive doing this with cases of bud light and handles of vodka. She asked if it was "heavy" and I said "less than wine". I asked if she does this with everyone and she said only if they are within 5 years.

I was never rude but she could tell I was annoyed. I've had this happen before. If she feels she needs to protect herself, fine but use some discretion and don't criminalize my legal purchase of rather expensive beer. Theyll probably lose thousands of dollars in purchases from me because I will not be buying from them again.

Sorry for the long post but WTF? I guess I should know better than to fulfill orders from rich high school kids with a great palate who like a nice sour after Recess
 
ArtVandelay said:
Anyone ever have to sign one of these? Really weird situation happened to me.

To start off, I'm 26 and was dressed in business attire and was shopping at Sendiks in an affluent neighborhood.

I look at sendiks beer selection as always because it's pretty decent and see a bottle of new Belgium Le Terroir dry hopped sour at $8 a bomber. I decide to purchse since I've never had this before. I walk to the register of an approximately 60 yr old lady. I put down my one bottle of beer, paper plates, and lemon pudding ready to pay. Lady asks for some ID which happens from time to time, no big deal.

Then the weird part happens. She pulled put a pad of forms to fill out and takes my ID and starts filling in my info on it. I ask her what this is about and she says, " oh it is a waiver to sign that says you will not distribute this to minors because if they get hurt I could lose job.". I hesitantly say okay and mention that that is pretty unique beer to give to a minor. I didn't mention the fact that I only purchased ONE and it's $8 a bottle! She half apologetically agreed with me. I again mentioned that it was a really weird beer to give to a minor and told her that shed be more productive doing this with cases of bud light and handles of vodka. She asked if it was "heavy" and I said "less than wine". I asked if she does this with everyone and she said only if they are within 5 years.

I was never rude but she could tell I was annoyed. I've had this happen before. If she feels she needs to protect herself, fine but use some discretion and don't criminalize my legal purchase of rather expensive beer. Theyll probably lose thousands of dollars in purchases from me because I will not be buying from them again.

Sorry for the long post but WTF? I guess I should know better than to fulfill orders from rich high school kids with a great palate who like a nice sour after Recess
Click to expand...

I call bull****. I would have left the bottle for them to put back.
 
As someone who used to work retail, it is not really fair to blame the employees for stuff like this; most of them think it's just as ridiculous as you do. I worked at a convenience store that didn't sell alcohol, so I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that, but we would have random people from Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds come in to buy cigarettes and if you did not card everyone "under 27" you could be fired, and possibly fined if it was an underage person from the state. When you are getting paid $8 an hour and it is your only job, you don't really care if you're pissing off one person if it's making it so you don't get in trouble.
 
No worries. Just vote with your wallet. If you don't like the way a particular store does business--then take your business elsewhere.

Brian
 
I think it is fair to blame her. I'm completely fine with getting carded but to sign a waiver? Give me a break. I've purchased alcohol at hundreds of places before, sometimes carded and sometimes not but never had to sign a waiver. I've purchased at this same store and not had to do this.

I don't know the legality of this but how would a retailer be responsible for what I, as a legal aged adult, am going to do with it? If I gave it to a minor and they were some how died from it, I would be responsible. I don't see how the retailer has any responsibility in this or are we in the same situation here as gun stores being responsible for crimes committed with guns from their store?
 
krj said:
As someone who used to work retail, it is not really fair to blame the employees for stuff like this; most of them think it's just as ridiculous as you do. I worked at a convenience store that didn't sell alcohol, so I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that, but we would have random people from Philip Morris and RJ Reynolds come in to buy cigarettes and if you did not card everyone "under 27" you could be fired, and possibly fined if it was an underage person from the state. When you are getting paid $8 an hour and it is your only job, you don't really care if you're pissing off one person if it's making it so you don't get in trouble.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, all the business law classes I've had make it seem as though everyone is out to get you. And they are, the business is trying to cover its ass in case someone is buying for an underage kid. And nothing is too expensive for a brat with their parents money trying to get drunk underage. I knew a guy in high school that gave a homeless guy 20 bucks to get him a 6 pack of BMC
 
I guess the question is whether this is isolated to this one employee or its a new store policy. If I have to do this every time, I'm done with them
 
ArtVandelay said:
I think it is fair to blame her. I'm completely fine with getting carded but to sign a waiver? Give me a break. I've purchased alcohol at hundreds of places before, sometimes carded and sometimes not but never had to sign a waiver. I've purchased at this same store and not had to do this.

I don't know the legality of this but how would a retailer be responsible for what I, as a legal aged adult, am going to do with it? If I gave it to a minor and they were some how died from it, I would be responsible. I don't see how the retailer has any responsibility in this or are we in the same situation here as gun stores being responsible for crimes committed with guns from their store?
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I completely agree. I don't completely understand having one customer sign the waiver but not the next?? only within 5 years??

Unless they actually sell to a minor... or sell to an adult knowing full well there is a minor waiting with open mouth.. or sell to an intoxicated adult.. then the retailers liability ends when you walk out the door.
 
CAustin919 said:
I completely agree. I don't completely understand having one customer sign the waiver but not the next?? only within 5 years??

Unless they actually sell to a minor... or sell to an adult knowing full well there is a minor waiting with open mouth.. or sell to an intoxicated adult.. then the retailers liability ends when you walk out the door.
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I guess the logic in this illogical situation regarding the within five years thing is some how if you are within 5 years you are more likely to associate with people under 21? I don't know what would have happened if I was 27

I also fail to see their liability. Maybe someone can explain that to me.
 
Sounds like the packie has a reputation for distributing to minors.

This paper basically sounds like a means of deferring responsibility to the individual purchasing the alcohol.

I had an older lady turn my ID down once, at age 22, with a picture on it that was taken when I was 21. It was perfectly valid, not expired or anything. I got a chuckle out of it, and went on to the next place.
 
Welcome to the world of indiscriminate litigation. I don`t blame the clerk, it is the store owner, he may have been sued and/or fined in the past and can`t afford the liability. I wouldn't `t be surprised if an insurance company somewhere has come up with this to lower liability and insurance premiums. Just don`t shoot the messenger.

VB
 
Is this something that you can challenge her / them with the next time it happens? "No, I don't want to fill that form out but, I want to buy that bottle." If there isn't any law that requires that form to be filled out, just don't let her. If the clerk persists, call out the manager, if he persists, call out the owner.

Maybe ask if they do it to every customer that buys alcohol and if that answer is 'no', see how they might feel about a discrimination lawsuit. "You're making me sign a waiver that says I won't distribute my rather expensive 22oz bottle of beer to minors based on the fact that I am young and dressed nice?" It probably won't hold water anywhere but, it would be kinda fun... :)
 
It sounds like this place was recently popped for underage selling. I would be calling and speaking to the manager or owner about it and telling them that you will not be back. Just silently stopping your shopping there won't really do much but telling them why you are stopping and that you have let a few hundred folks on a forum (and I would assume in person) know that they are doing this does make a difference.
 
Yeah being young isn't a protected class, so there isn't a discrimination law suit there. My guess is they are assuming that someone close to those who are underage is more likely to buy for said underage people and thus instituted the policy. I am definitely not boned up on WI law, but in most cases for liability, a sheet of paper waiving liability hastily written like this isn't going to do what they want it to do.
 
Maybe I've had a few too many homebrews tonight (cliffs: :drunk:) but does it really matter? You got your brews. :D
 
Did you use an out of state license? I go to Bevmo and get carded and have to sign something each time (after they write down my info). I go to school in Arizona, but still have an Illinois license.
 
Once a cashier who carded me at Stop&Shop told me I was under 21 after she entered my birthdate into her infallible computer while I was trying to buy a sixer of Guiness 250th anniversary (I was 24 at the time). I tried using basic math..."what is 109-85", that sort of thing, but could not sway her. I asked to see her manager, but she was the manager.

I left it, thinking I would buy a sixer at another store. Never saw that particular beer again.

Another time, at a liquor store in MA, the cashier rather rudely demanded my ID and then proceeded to walk away to a line of cashiers standing in front of some form of police scanner. Without informing me she just scanned my ID and compared it against some government database. My friend and I agreed to never go to that place again, even though they had a nice selection.
 
Had the same thing happen to me and my girlfriend a few weeks ago when we picked up a 6 pack. I was reading over the form before I gave my signature when the clerk told me that "It didn't matter what the form said, just that I sign it." I laughed at him, read it over, and will never go back.
 
Sounds like a job for a permanent black wide tipped marker...Think John Hancock all over the front of the form, blacking out all possible information. As a bonus if you write slow enough it will bleed out onto the counter or other forms. Who is to say that is not your signature?

You could also bring in a counter protection form that the clerk would need to sign that basically reads that the clerk and business waives the right to sue you for the distribution of alcohol to minors, "For your protection."

You could also bring in a lawyer buddy to offer legal advice and make sure the "forms are in order"...especially when they are busy.

It will only take a few times of this kind of stuff and that form will never get filled out again. Remember inconvenience is a 2 way street and as long as you are nice the whole time, there is very little they can do but change the policy...
 
I'd just take my business elsewhere. When I was active duty in Ca. ('83) I had a store clerk refuse to accept my military ID to buy beer, because it wasn't state issued.... Yeah, the good old days, when people thought you might be under aged. How come no one asks me anymore??? :(
 
Lots of good ideas here on how to make it less than easy for them to do. What ever you do make sure you vocalize it to them some how. It's not going to change if you just stop patronizing their store.
 
Zamial said:
Sounds like a job for a permanent black wide tipped marker...Think John Hancock all over the front of the form, blacking out all possible information. As a bonus if you write slow enough it will bleed out onto the counter or other forms. Who is to say that is not your signature?

You could also bring in a counter protection form that the clerk would need to sign that basically reads that the clerk and business waives the right to sue you for the distribution of alcohol to minors, "For your protection."

You could also bring in a lawyer buddy to offer legal advice and make sure the "forms are in order"...especially when they are busy.

It will only take a few times of this kind of stuff and that form will never get filled out again. Remember inconvenience is a 2 way street and as long as you are nice the whole time, there is very little they can do but change the policy...
Click to expand...

I like these tactics, Take about five minutes to read the form, ask questions, "excuse me ma'am but could explain this part I don't understand?"

This seems like the kind of thing that managers implement, workers are forced to for a while till they get tired of it and the managers move on to the next stupid idea.
 
I like all of the ideas. It was an unusual situation that just rubbed me the wrong way. Again, this has never happened before at this particular store, or anywhere else for that matter, so I don't know if it is the policy of one cashier or the entire store.

I plan on calling the store to discuss this policy and decide if I should go back. It's so close to my house and has such a nice selection that will be hard to do.
 
I had an annoying situation at a United Dairy Farmers convenience store. Went in to buy a sixer to take to a friends house. My wife walked in with me and we are both 30. I went to the register and she walked towards the door. They asked for both of our ids. I was in a crap mood and my wife left hers in the car so I argued with them. She had nothing to do with the beer. It was my credit card, she never touched the beer and she wasnt even in line with me. I complained and haven't been back for a year and a half. It is really close to my house and I went there about there several times a week before work.

Voted with my wallet. Bad part is they could probably care less, but I'm to stubborn so I inconvenience myself on a regular basis.

Should I get over it or stand on my principles?
 
I understand getting annoyed with the sort of stuff. I've gotten annoyed at way less offensive things in the past. That being said, if you want the beer/don't want to inconvenience yourself, you might as well put up with the bs. In the end you really only hurt yourself by not getting what you want where you want it.
 
I had to fill out one of those in college....but I was also buying a case of vodka handles for a party...

Kinda ridiculous for 1 beer
 
DubBrew said:
I had an annoying situation at a United Dairy Farmers convenience store. Went in to buy a sixer to take to a friends house. My wife walked in with me and we are both 30. I went to the register and she walked towards the door. They asked for both of our ids. I was in a crap mood and my wife left hers in the car so I argued with them. She had nothing to do with the beer. It was my credit card, she never touched the beer and she wasnt even in line with me. I complained and haven't been back for a year and a half. It is really close to my house and I went there about there several times a week before work.

Voted with my wallet. Bad part is they could probably care less, but I'm to stubborn so I inconvenience myself on a regular basis.

Should I get over it or stand on my principles?
Click to expand...


The problem with the whole "vote with your wallet" concept is that if the store is big enough to succeed, simply shopping elsewhere and not telling a manager/owner of WHY you are shopping elsewhere will have no effect. As a former retail manager I can assure you if you complain things may happen, if you just shop somewhere else they won't even notice. Yeah you can impact their business by telling as many people as possible, but that doesn't mean they will ever understand the causation of bad policy -> decreased business.

TL: DR - complain, voting with your wallet rarely if ever succeeds in changing the crappy policy you dislike.
 
A few years ago I was purchasing a set of water skis from a reputable sporting goods store. When I went to check out the clerk ushered me over to customer service & they whipped out a 5 page form for me to sign, basically stating that I wouldn't sue them if I was hurt using them. The real funny part was that I would only use them for my personal use and that no one else could use them because I was the only one signing the form. I asked for the store manager & he was firm about me signing it or no sale. The clerk at the customer service desk was empathetic about the whole thing so after the manager left I proceeded to cross off all the items I didn't agree with, initialed each modification to the form and then signed it. I should have just walked out but I was pissed & stubborn at that point. The clerk just laughed and shook his head in approval. He said everyone else just signed the form & checked out. Cheers!!!
 
In Texas, the shop owner has no criminal liability if the alcohol is sold to a person of age. It is the PROVIDOR's liablity after the purchase leaves the store. Of course, there is the civil lawsuit realm that might be what is scaring the shopowner/clerk. All it takes is a 51% majority of a jury to believe a really good lawyer to make the shopowner/clerk have to pay big. This is a bit of overkill, but that might be their line of thought......could have been sued before too, which would bump their paranoia.
 
GeoGirl said:
It sounds like this place was recently popped for underage selling. I would be calling and speaking to the manager or owner about it and telling them that you will not be back. Just silently stopping your shopping there won't really do much but telling them why you are stopping and that you have let a few hundred folks on a forum (and I would assume in person) know that they are doing this does make a difference.
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking. The only times I've heard of this is at places that have had legal issues recently, or in areas where the police are really cracking down.
 
If you purchase more than $26 worth of beer/alcohol they run your ID through a scanner which goes to a database, so in case the police have to deal with you later that night, they can pull that up on their computers.
 
As soon as the clerk attempts to record my info, it goes from being a legal age verification check to a (potentially illegal) privacy violation. If you paid via credit card, it is a violation of PCI guidelines to collect and store information like that. In many locations requiring you to submit personal information as a condition of sale is a violation of state law -which is why stores offer incentives to sign up for mailing lists or discount cards instead of just demanding your information.

I'm not sure how I would handle it myself... but I think complaining to the manager/owner would be a good starting point. If you feel vindictive, a call to your credit card company could cost them their ability to process credit cards. A letter to your states AG could cost them even more. Or you could just shrug and walk away...
 
^Well one could argue that age verification is within itself a privacy violation, and subsequently alcohol purchases cannot be considered a "private" action.
 
Slurm said:
As soon as the clerk attempts to record my info, it goes from being a legal age verification check to a (potentially illegal) privacy violation.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Slurm said:
If you paid via credit card, it is a violation of PCI guidelines to collect and store information like that.
Click to expand...

They aren't storing credit card information, so PCI doesn't apply
 

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