LCD high-def, seriously?

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wildwest450

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For sports, second to none. For movies, I hate it. The "soap opera effect" looks ridiculous. To say it looks overly real seems silly, but it does. For HD movies, my DLP looks much more realistic imo. It seems that technology is getting to good.
 
I agree. For cartoon and standard def tv the LCD looks fine.

But nothing rivals the picture quality from HD sources over my DLP set. Love it!


Make sure all the processing features are turned off on your LCD and it will get better.

For reference I have a Sammy 55" LED LCD and a Sammy 67" LED DLP.
 
Sort of, yes.

It is artifacting and smearing caused by the processor of the TV trying to deal with 24fps and 60fps video sources and the set having a native 120Hz/240Hz refresh rate. Something has to make up for the extra frames since they can;t be bothered anymore to allow a source to be played at a native resolution or refresh rate.

samsung describes the effect as an interpolation between frames. Basically the processors look at the 2 frames and the interpolate what should be between them to try to smooth out the picture. I guess the Samsung techs have bad eyesight in QC cause it is pretty obvious that the picture is artificial.

Wanna hear something really odd? Samsung says that if you rename the input to "Game" it turns off most all of the processors. I find this odd because they also say that setting the processor to "off" manually doesn't always turn it off. By design! WTF?
 
On my tv I have a trumotion option. Which gives a home movie look. I keep always keep it off because it annoys me when its on.
 
Sort of, yes.

It is artifacting and smearing caused by the processor of the TV trying to deal with 24fps and 60fps video sources and the set having a native 120Hz/240Hz refresh rate. Something has to make up for the extra frames since they can;t be bothered anymore to allow a source to be played at a native resolution or refresh rate.

samsung describes the effect as an interpolation between frames. Basically the processors look at the 2 frames and the interpolate what should be between them to try to smooth out the picture. I guess the Samsung techs have bad eyesight in QC cause it is pretty obvious that the picture is artificial.

Wanna hear something really odd? Samsung says that if you rename the input to "Game" it turns off most all of the processors. I find this odd because they also say that setting the processor to "off" manually doesn't always turn it off. By design! WTF?

This is why I don't own a samsung TV.
 
+1, they all do it as far as i've seen.

Yeah. I think he was poking at the Samsung hidden meaning tho'. That is, Off not really being Off. and Game mode being advertised as optimized for the gaming experience but actually being the one mode taht actually does turn all the crap off.
 
I fully agree, HD is awesoem for sport, but I really don't like the super-real look it gives movies.

Call me old school, but I wanna see CRT's coming back!
 
I have a CRT HDTV and it looks FANTASTIC! I'm still going to upgrade to a flatscreen since I want something a bit bigger, but for the last 6 years or so, I've been completely happy with my CRT.
 
For sports, second to none. For movies, I hate it. The "soap opera effect" looks ridiculous. To say it looks overly real seems silly, but it does. For HD movies, my DLP looks much more realistic imo. It seems that technology is getting to good.

Wow.. that is a perfect analogy.. I've always had a hard time coming up with a good comparison for that effect.. and couldn't ever drive the point to whoever I was talking to.

I think it's fine for TV, but I haven't watched too many movies with that effect. My parents have an Olivia that is pretty decent and looks good for movies. I just have a 57" RPTV.. works great for football!
 
Just turn off all the preprocessing and it goes away. Its the interpolation that does it. You don't need it running.
 
I have a Panasonic 50" Plasma and I love it. I just tweeked the setting a bit from out of hte box and it looks great for everything movies, sports, etc.

My Living room the day it was all hooked up.
73242_159539214081561_100000764518494_250096_5527914_n.jpg
 
Hmm I don't even know the effect you guys are talking about. I do remember older crappier HD sets having a weird picture effect, I don't see it with my Bravia at all.

I'd never buy a plasma screen, electricity is too expensive here.
 
I really debated between a 58" Plasma and the 55" LED LCD I ultimately chose. And these two sets were literally side by side in the store. I played around with settings (took them both out of demo mode)on both to balance them and this LCD had the better picture with the source in the store.
 
I have a Bravia and I'm not sure if I have the effect you guys are talking about. I prob do but I rarely watch movies. I do know that some tech-recommended settings I found online for my specific model made the picture much better. Basically you turn off all the BS filters/effects, turn the sharpness all the way down, turn down the backlight, and turn the contrast almost all the way up (like 94 or so). It looks very natural but still isn't a plasma.
 
I really debated between a 58" Plasma and the 55" LED LCD I ultimately chose. And these two sets were literally side by side in the store. I played around with settings (took them both out of demo mode)on both to balance them and this LCD had the better picture with the source in the store.

Most stores have the sets way too bright and just playing with the settings isn't going to get the plasma or LCD right for the situation. It may sound like overkill, but anyone spending the coin on a 50" or larger set may want to look at either getting a professional calibration done (which produces incredible results) or at least pick up either AVIA or Digital Video Essentials and do your own calibrations based on their test screens and filters.
 
Most stores have the sets way too bright and just playing with the settings isn't going to get the plasma or LCD right for the situation. It may sound like overkill, but anyone spending the coin on a 50" or larger set may want to look at either getting a professional calibration done (which produces incredible results) or at least pick up either AVIA or Digital Video Essentials and do your own calibrations based on their test screens and filters.

Yes. In another life, I provided the Pro Calibrations services. But, it's not like you can haul your gear to the showroom when you are picking out a television so, the best you can do is try to balance the settings between the two to get some sort of reasonable comparison.

Taking the set out of Demo mode alone does wonders to calm down the settings.
 
Sort of, yes.

It is artifacting and smearing caused by the processor of the TV trying to deal with 24fps and 60fps video sources and the set having a native 120Hz/240Hz refresh rate. Something has to make up for the extra frames since they can;t be bothered anymore to allow a source to be played at a native resolution or refresh rate.

120hz / 240hz allows them to show 24 / 30 / 60 fps material at the native frame rate assuming that you do not have image processing active (you shouldn't).

Your TV ALWAYS displays the same resolution. A 1080p is ALWAYS displaying 1080p no matter what the source resolution is.
 
120hz / 240hz allows them to show 24 / 30 / 60 fps material at the native frame rate assuming that you do not have image processing active (you shouldn't).

Your TV ALWAYS displays the same resolution. A 1080p is ALWAYS displaying 1080p no matter what the source resolution is.

Your point? You are only echoing what I already said.

Which is to say that unless the source material was recorded at the same native refresh and resolution as the display there will always be processing involved either to fill in for refresh rate or to upscale resolution. Which doesn't really matter since most people can't tolerate having bars on the screen and opt for the least distorted display of the source that fills the screen.

UNLESS the display does allow scanning at the recorded refresh rate natively. From what I have read, several do not, thus they use some form of interpolation. For these, the user controls only allow one to select what manner of interpolation gets used.
 
Your point? You are only echoing what I already said.

Which is to say that unless the source material was recorded at the same native refresh and resolution as the display there will always be processing involved either to fill in for refresh rate or to upscale resolution. Which doesn't really matter since most people can't tolerate having bars on the screen and opt for the least distorted display of the source that fills the screen.

My point? Accuracy.

I am not echoing you - I am actually saying something completely different than you are.

"Processing" is a somewhat ambiguous term. When I think of processing I think of MotionFlow - which literally creates frames that do not exist. This process creates the "artifacts and smearing" that you are speaking of.

120Hz / 240Hz sets are nice because it allows you to view all common fps 24, 30, and 60 at proportional frame-rates because they all divide evenly into 120. There is no processing of the image - depending on the native fps each frame is repeated either 5, 4, or 2 / 10, 8, or 4 times. There is no reason that playing any of those native fps material on a 120Hz set would cause ANY "artifacts or smearing."

A Primer:
If you pop a 24fps Blu-ray disk into your Blu-ray player and you have a 1080p 120Hz display it will play the movie by simply repeating each of the 24 frames 5 times. There is no "processing" of the image - it is at its native resolution and proportionally native frame rate.

If you are watching TV 1080i 30fps the image is deinterlaced and each frame is repeated 4 times.

If you are watching TV 720p 60 fps the image is upscaled to 1080p and each frame is repeated 2 times

If you are watching TV 480i 30 fps the image is upscaled to 1080p, deinterlaced, and each frame is repeated 4 times.

The repeating of the frame is NOT creating ANY artifacts, PERIOD.

UNLESS the display does allow scanning at the recorded refresh rate natively. From what I have read, several do not, thus they use some form of interpolation. For these, the user controls only allow one to select what manner of interpolation gets used.

Interpolation is a process where the standard repetition of the same frames is modified so that it is not repeating each of the frames a set number of times but rather is creating frames. The display will still be showing a 1080p image at 120Hz.

Standard:
111112222233333444445555566666777778888899999......23232323232424242424 = 120 frames

Each frame is repeated 5 times.

Inerpolated (MotionFlow)
1 1.1 1.2 1.4 1.4 2 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4.......... 23 23.1 23.2 23.3 23.4 24 24.1 24.2 24.3 24.4 = 120 frames

Each frame is shown only 1 time. 1 source frame followed by 4 created frames. All of the ._ are created frames. This is where a ton of artifacts, and blurring come from. Turn this feature off.
 
Hmmm I have a 37 inch Bravia and decided to go for the one without the trumotion, cos that was out of my budget...that might be why I'm not seeing what you guys are seeing with the larger screens with this feature....at least according to the post of Beerwars.
 
I actually got some settings from an A/V site and did a "custom" setting for movies, it looks awesome, still a little "fake", but much improved. I just switch back to normal for watching sports. It really is a great little tv, now to run some cat 5 to it so I can take advantage of the internet features.
 
My point? Accuracy.

I am not echoing you - I am actually saying something completely different than you are.

"Processing" is a somewhat ambiguous term. When I think of processing I think of MotionFlow - which literally creates frames that do not exist. This process creates the "artifacts and smearing" that you are speaking of.

120Hz / 240Hz sets are nice because it allows you to view all common fps 24, 30, and 60 at proportional frame-rates because they all divide evenly into 120. There is no processing of the image - depending on the native fps each frame is repeated either 5, 4, or 2 / 10, 8, or 4 times. There is no reason that playing any of those native fps material on a 120Hz set would cause ANY "artifacts or smearing."

A Primer:
If you pop a 24fps Blu-ray disk into your Blu-ray player and you have a 1080p 120Hz display it will play the movie by simply repeating each of the 24 frames 5 times. There is no "processing" of the image - it is at its native resolution and proportionally native frame rate.

If you are watching TV 1080i 30fps the image is deinterlaced and each frame is repeated 4 times.

If you are watching TV 720p 60 fps the image is upscaled to 1080p and each frame is repeated 2 times

If you are watching TV 480i 30 fps the image is upscaled to 1080p, deinterlaced, and each frame is repeated 4 times.

The repeating of the frame is NOT creating ANY artifacts, PERIOD.



Interpolation is a process where the standard repetition of the same frames is modified so that it is not repeating each of the frames a set number of times but rather is creating frames. The display will still be showing a 1080p image at 120Hz.

Standard:
111112222233333444445555566666777778888899999......23232323232424242424 = 120 frames

Each frame is repeated 5 times.

Inerpolated (MotionFlow)
1 1.1 1.2 1.4 1.4 2 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4.......... 23 23.1 23.2 23.3 23.4 24 24.1 24.2 24.3 24.4 = 120 frames

Each frame is shown only 1 time. 1 source frame followed by 4 created frames. All of the ._ are created frames. This is where a ton of artifacts, and blurring come from. Turn this feature off.

Excellent response.:mug:
 
Your point? You are only echoing what I already said.

Which is to say that unless the source material was recorded at the same native refresh and resolution as the display there will always be processing involved either to fill in for refresh rate or to upscale resolution. Which doesn't really matter since most people can't tolerate having bars on the screen and opt for the least distorted display of the source that fills the screen.
.

Drawing a frame three times in a row really isn't "processing"
 
Drawing a frame three times in a row really isn't "processing"

I don't agree with this. While the discernable effects of the duplicated frames may be minimal it is still not what is considered Native from the source. Now, if a set capable of 120Hz could be forced to display at the Native 24, 30, or 60 as the source I would then consider that as not processed.

Does it matter to the naked eye? Not usually.
 
I don't agree with this. While the discernable effects of the duplicated frames may be minimal it is still not what is considered Native from the source. Now, if a set capable of 120Hz could be forced to display at the Native 24, 30, or 60 as the source I would then consider that as not processed..

Why?

Your eye sees 5 frames at 1/120 th of a second exactly the same way it sees 1 frame at 1/24th.


And LCD's don't really dim between frames like some older TVs do, so in essence, 5 draws at 120th is functionally equivalent to 1 draw at 1/24th
 
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