Please help a SERIOUSLY frustrated brewer

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BrewBQ1

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I have been brewing some great beer for about 3 years. Progressed from extract to all-grain about 1.5 years ago. We used a standard round cooler with SS braid. We do 10g brews and beers were great. All worts are getting 100% o2 and a yest starter off a stir plate. Starter size is determined by beer smith software.

My brewing partner and I decided to upgrade the rack. We replaced the cooler with a converted keg tun with a false bottom. This was heated with a burner. We also started recirculating the mash with a chugger pump. Here is where the problem starts.

Three worts are brewed for St Patric's day. All three are recipes from NB. All three beers suffer a stuck ferment. The culprit was assumed to be a cold fermenter. We purchased a dual stage controller on a chest freezer, fermentation temp is now a perfect 66.

Next we added a new SS RIMS tube controlled by a PID. Also added a chillzilla, with output thermometer. Got a digital PH meter as well.

The next beer also will not drop under 1.024 when it should be about 1.010. I can get into the recipes, but for brevity they are all recipes from NB that should finish much lower.

Frustrated we looked at our thermometers and found them to be about 4 degrees off. We assumed this was our problem and that our mash temp was too high (shooting for 152) Next brew 152 spot on for 60min, checked against a glass lab thermometer. Again beer refuses to drop under 1.022.

After reading an article about adding more enzymes we decided to try it. 1 lb of 2 row mashed at 140 for 10 min. Added liquid to beer. WOW a whole new krausen gravity drops (proof that the yeast is present and ready.)


Mash temp good 152
Water to grist good at 1.33qt/lb
PH Good
O2 Good
Yeast starter size good
Ferment temp Good

Only thing I could think of was a compacted mash from two high a flow rate. Next brew is the Number 8 from NB. All things kept the same flow reduced. OG 1.73 its been in the primary for two weeks now reading 1.035 with a calibrated refractometer.

I feel like crying in my beer please tell me what the hell is happening.
 
I'd say depending on the yeast strain, 66 degrees is a good start for ale fermentation, but if you leave it at 66 the yeast may drop out prematurely, leaving unfermented wort behind. Start at 66 for 2-3 days then let it ramp up (artifically or naturally) to 70-72 to finish out. After the first 2-3 days the ester production should be completed, so raising to a finishing temp shouldn't of-flavor the beer and the gravity should get down to where you want it to. Also, if you're not using yeast nutrient, I'd say toss a bit in the boil as well.
 
If adding enzymes is bringing it down then you are not getting full conversion in your mash for some reason. Could be your grain, crush, temp, water chemistry, process. Hard to say for sure but I suspect it's a mash issue.

Do you do a conversion test with iodine?
 
Are you using a hydrometer and is it calibrated? Are you correcting your refractometer reading for the presence of alcohol? Thats a really frustrating problem and I'm very sorry to hear about it. Hopefully someone with more knowledge than I will chime in and get you sorted.
 
Thanks for your willingness to help.

I will start doing an Iodine test. The crush looks great according to more experienced brewers than I (all stumped.) We use our own crusher. I totally agree its a mash issue. Just can't figure out what.

I clean everything with oxyclean and then rinse well.

Could the heating element be denaturing enzymes that contact it?
 
You say "calibrated refractometer" for your post-fermentation gravity readings. Does that mean you're converting your indicated reading to an actual reading since there is now the presence of alcohol and the indicated reading is not correct until converted? Or does "calibrated" mean checked using distilled water and getting a reading of 1.000? If it's the former, then okay. If it's the latter, then that's your problem since you can't use a direct refractometer reading post-ferment without running a conversion calculation. Forgive me if you already know this, as I'm just ruling out the simplest possibility.

Have you verified the high FGs with a hydrometer to see if it agrees with what your refractometer is telling you?
 
OK didn't know about the need to do a conversion. It has a SG reading on it. I thought that was good to go.
 
I would attempt to warm the beer up and give it a swirl, if that fixes your problem its getting too cold. If not you have other issues with your process.
 
Nevermind sounds like a refractometer issue. Good luck. Use a hydrometer for FG would be my suggestion.
 
OK can you point me to how this is done.

Thanks

The conversion is a good approximation, but not very reliable.

I would highly recommend a hydrometer for FG measurements.

How's the beer taste? Do your 1.024 brews taste ridiculously sweet? Or do they taste like normally-attenuated beers?
 
Do you use the same strain of yeast for all the brews so far? Or has this happened with different strains? It doesn't sound like it's the yeast, I've fermented countless brews in the 65~69deg range.

Yea its been with all different yeast.
 

Ha! Beat ya by mere seconds. I know some people who report being really happy with the accuracy of refractometer and the MoreBeer sheet. But I'd much rather just use the refractometer to tell me when I've hit FG and use a hydrometer to measure that gravity. It never needs calibration and only need to correct for temp.
 
The conversion is a good approximation, but not very reliable.

I would highly recommend a hydrometer for FG measurements.

How's the beer taste? Do your 1.024 brews taste ridiculously sweet? Or do they taste like normally-attenuated beers?

It does taste really sweet.
 
Well I feel like a moron, but you guys rock. Just took some readings with the old hydrometer and it says 1.010 on the strong ale. Some of the brews I have added enzymes to are at 1.002 (guess the enzymes work)

Thank you for your help. To think that I have wasted months of trouble shooting for a problem that did not exist.
 
Lol glad that's all it was. I kind of find it hilarious that you never tasted them or something? You should have been able to tell they weren't actually 1.033 lol.

Maybe you can add some maltodextrine to the 1.002's to make them not-pure water tasting. Might be too much to recover from, though.
 
Your eyes fooled your taste buds big time on the thunkung it tastes.sweet.

Wtf. How can I drunk type better than I can type.from my phone. 'm sorry but my phone turns me into a 1337 tard.
 
OK didn't know about the need to do a conversion. It has a SG reading on it. I thought that was good to go.

I wouldn't trust an SG scale on a refractometer without verifying it against a hydrometer even for OG readings. There is no direct conversion between the refractive index and the specific gravity of a liquid unless you know what that liquid is composed of. The SG scale may be reasonably accurate for wine (which contains a lot of sucrose) or beer (which contains a lot of maltose), but it will not be accurate for both. Beersmith has instructions on how to calibrate a refractometer for brewing (it needs a lot more work than just checking that distilled water reads 0 brix). Then you need a calculator to convert the brix reading to SG (again, Beersmith provides a calculator).

-a.
 
Your eyes fooled your taste buds big time on the thunkung it tastes.sweet.



No Lie! Even when I taste it now the first thing I notice is what sugar is there. Of course now I also sense that its thin and has lots of dry alcohol taste. It is really hard to taste it at room temp and without carbonation.
 
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